Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Episode Discussion - **NO SPOILERS** - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

I forgot to mention in last post that I found myself thinking there are many potential leads for the B'ette.  That could be a harder prediction than Nick picking his F1

It is still early and things could change, but there seem to be some very smart, down-to-earth, beautiful girls this season. These girls are not all the typical model types we see who smile and say whatever they think will please TB.  Most have careers, seem to have RL goals and are looking to challenge Nick a bit.

MiaHawk wrote:Wow. My opinion of Nick and several of these contestants just plummeted. So much so that I'm going over to the dark side.  

Ugh... I just started watching it this morning and about 10 minutes in, I want to go to the dark side just to hopefully see that doesn't pick Corinne... Will finish this episode and see what I think.

Glad he sent Liz home, but to be honest, i liked her and happy they had a decent talk and that shes not going to be used for drama....they have Corinne for that. She's a pathetic, egotistical sleeze....and Im quite sure Nick was told to keep her...from what i saw...he wasnt enjoying the pool scene as much as she did and looked embarrassed. I like the rest of the girls..lots of nice ones this season. Danielle remindind me a lot of Tenley ( was not a fan of hers) but grew on me a little as the date progressed. Not sure if Im going to stay unspoiled ....maybe one more week.

locoforbach wrote:I forgot to mention in last post that I found myself thinking there are many potential leads for the B'ette.  That could be a harder prediction than Nick picking his F1

It is still early and things could change, but there seem to be some very smart, down-to-earth, beautiful girls this season. These girls are not all the typical model types we see who smile and say whatever they think will please TB.  Most have careers, seem to have RL goals and are looking to challenge Nick a bit.

Apart from Corinne, I really like this cast as well. I'm not just looking for a potential B'ette, I'm also thinking Paradise. Is that very bad of me?

DMBFan wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:Wow. My opinion of Nick and several of these contestants just plummeted. So much so that I'm going over to the dark side.  

Ugh... I just started watching it this morning and about 10 minutes in, I want to go to the dark side just to hopefully see that doesn't pick Corinne... Will finish this episode and see what I think.  

This is exactly what I posted on other non spoiler thread. I am going to try and stay unspoiled at least until episode 5 or 6. I sincerely hope that Corinne is gone by then. There seems to be quite a few sweet, smart and fun women this season so hope they get more screen time.

I doubt Corrine, whom I don't think is all that bad, survives beyond hometowns if she makes it that far. It is the way they are editing her. While it is remotely possible she could be a F1 of the Courtney or Vienna school, Nick's body language around her reminds me too much of Ben Higgins with Olivia and Sean with Tierra. He is amused by her and production is twice as amused by her, probably conning him to keep her for entertainment purposes. In the promos where she "stalks" him, he is not all that receptive in the voice-overs with his repetition of "whoa".

Several ladies are already resembling past contestants and I can kinda guess how long they last based on their performances. I don't have a crystal ball and am still unspoiled, so I could be wrong in my guesses. Taylor and Christen are key players in the drama (with Corrine and others), so they probably last until the top six or seven but not, perhaps, top three. Vanessa gets a lot of screen time as a narrator, so I suspect she at least makes hometowns. Josephine gets some attention (mostly because of the staged slap emphasized in all of the promos but just a gag in the group date), but I just see her as That Other Blonde Nurse (apart from Danielle) in this saga. Raven is a wild card; I have no idea how long she lasts except that she and Nick don't appear to have much in common.

Rachel got the First Impression rose, but mostly disappeared from the screen this last episode. I suspect that Danielle M. will also fade into the background a bit since her first solo date is done with. Both may emerge to the forefront after some of the Drama characters move out and have strong potential to be part of his top four and possibly top two. (Or replace one with Vanessa or another gal I haven't seen enough to determine as a front-runner.) Usually the F1 gets ONE scene with the lead per episode even if it is just for a few seconds (only barely two or three seconds with Desiree and Prince Siegfried in the first two episodes of hers). So far, Danielle has that edge over Rachel, while Rachel's chances of being a Bachelorette may be greater. I don't know. It seems that Danielle's conversations have more substance than the others, such as her love of nursing, her past relationship with a drug addict (but loving him unconditionally just as she could potentially love Nick unconditionally) and NOT seeing Nick in his first two shows and knowing his full "history", so this means Nick gets a "fresh start" with her.

In any case, this is only my take on two episodes. I missed the intro show on New Years. We have plenty of surprises that can change things.

^^^thanks JBF! Yep it is super early in season and I appreciate that the girls who peak early, frequently leave by final 6. So far Nick is doing a fine job and will be interesting to see how he evolves.

Maybe I am just a foolish optimistic. We had to deal with Nick for... *gasp*... three seasons. Time to send him off with a bride. Ha ha!

So had to go back to rewatch the episode before I could comment more. Was thinking Danielle, Taylor, Rachel and Vanessa were top 4 girls, but rethinking Vanessa after this episode as they didn't show her 1-1 time with him during the group date. She does seem to narrate a lot though so I am a little confused about her role. Cannot stand Corinne! I really hope she doesn't stay much longer. Glad he got rid of Liz, don't think he was interested in her and since they have mutual friends, its better he sent her home early.

My thoughts are simply... ugh!  I knew Corinne was cast for drama and the villain role, but the over the top, producer-influenced stunts are tiresome. The thought crossed my mind that she was the next Courtney or Vienna, but I agree that his body language is not encouraging. I suppose she'll stay ala Tiera and leave in dramatic form around F6.

I also thought Vanessa and Danielle M. would go far but am discouraged by the initial dates/interactions shown. I think Rachel is a good candidate for next 'Ette.

I'm not really liking the sleaze. If this keeps up, I won't watch much until the very end, just to see who gets the next lead. The episode was rather boring with the contrived drama and predictable cliffhanger. I hope it gets better and fast.

It looks from the previews that Nick proposes in Finland. The only one that I've seen in Finland so far is Rachel. Has anyone seen any other of the cast members there? Based on that, my best guess is that she isn't the one. I don't think that the producers would show their hand that early in the process. But it does look like she makes it to the top three or four, if not further.

Right this minute, my money's on Vanessa. But I think Raven is a dark horse. And of course my opinion will likely change as the season progresses.

OK, OK, OK... you will all think I am bonkers here, but here I go again. Time for everybody to roll their eyes. I will also try, try, try to make sure any future post here is shorter than this one.

She may not be The One at the end of this, but I am already intrigued by The Edit of Danielle M.

First of all, I am not "going there" with Nick saying, after tasting the maple syrup, "I am trusting that your fingers are clean". Yet "trust" is very important in any relationship. Chris Harrison mentions to Nick before the limos arrive that he is "controversial" and asks if that is a concern. His response: "they will have to ask me questions". That dialogue hit me as somehow important.

I did love Danielle's come-back line: "So if things get sticky with the other girls, you can come find me." In a curious way, I think this line sets up her storyline.

Her solo date is curiously sandwiched between two very thematic group dates. The first involved a wedding photographer with many ladies taking turns as brides, some shown all "traditional" and prudish, another forced to wear leaves as a bottom outfit (probably against her will) and Corrine volunteering to go full frontal to get the others all rallied up. (She also got the rose since Nick is still allowing things to get sticky with the other girls right now.)  The other group date was all about break-ups, complete with a museum dedicated to Nick's break ups with Andi and Kaitlyn... AND, in a twist that fits beautifully here, Liz also breaking up with him on the evening portion of that date.

In the middle of Danielle's date, we see back-at-the-mansion (yes, I know... they always have a back-at-the-mansion during every date) Liz telling Christen all about her "wild time" with Nick at Jade and Tanner's wedding. (Weddings were the theme of the first group date, but Liz winds up on the "break up" date instead). This sequence is shown right before Danielle telling Nick that she only watched him on Bachelor In Paradise and, therefore, he has to give her a recap of his "journey" so far. However he doesn't recap everything.  No mention is made of knowing Kaitlyn before joining her show or doing with her what we see Corrine attempting to do in the seasonal promos (when all good things should wait until Fantasy Suite time). Also no mention of his affair with Liz before she too became a contestant.

Another curio: Corrine gets the group rose and the other ladies are outraged by her "lustful" behavior in getting it. Yet this is before Danielle's solo date. After Danielle, Nick dumps Liz even though they were sexual together. Go figure. Did something happen on Danielle's date that changed Nick's approach to dating women?

We hear Danielle croon on the seasonal promo: "There's intrigue, there's connection and there's chemistry and *it*, like, completely exceeded my expectations." Her use of the word "intrigue" makes me laugh, since it suggests secrets she has yet to uncover.

As with all of these silly seasonal promos, there is all this Doom 'n' Gloom in The Grant Finale. As Nick walks through the hotel to meet the ladies in a group: "Maybe this was all just history and... I dunno if *it* is going to work out. (splice in dialogue) This is so much like my past. (another splice) It is hard not to feel beat down, defeated, discouraged and incredibly scared, worried knowing all of the ways this could go wrong." My impression is that his history may cause several "sticky" situations on this show and he fears the same thing will happen that he stressed about earlier in the promo: "I was very much in love with Andi and Kaitlyn and I was really heartbroken both times". Danielle (at least I think that's her in the white bathrobe) is shown when Nick says "my biggest fear right now is if the same thing is going to happen..." (a.k.a. a break-up) and "I really want things to work out." Nick says teary eyed "I feel, like, terrified *it* is not gonna happen". This is followed by Danielle saying: "I think I am in shock that this may not work for him". Not sure what "this" is, but Raven brings up that there may not be a wife at the end of this. Is it because a lady is not ready to be his wife or because the ladies think, due to his past, Nick is not ready to have a wife?

Good news: "But I am never gonna give up on LUV and I believe my heart is bringing me to the right place." Awwww!

Going back to Danielle's date: There was that interesting discussion about how she did not know the man she was previously engaged to was a drug addict until he died suddenly. (I guess... I am not sure of how she worded it. Haven't re-watched.) She feels she is often judged unfairly because she loved the man despite his problems, but Nick holds her hand (key edit here) saying that is what draws him to her. He sees her as the "hometown" girl he is most comfortable with and potentially one who will stand by him.

Anyhoo... I got *it* out of my system for now. Carry on with business as usual.