Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Episode Discussion - **NO SPOILERS** - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

You may be right about Liz, Mia. I noticed they bleeped out what she said but the producer said it for her. I find all the sex stuff annoying. Do they know that their audience is primarily women?

I don't have a feel for the f2 yet. Rachel seems to be there for a while so she could be in the f3.

I guess I'm an old prude, but some of these young women... :shocked!: Have they no shame? I find myself thinking, "What must their mothers think?" I know I'd be horrified if my own daughter thought/acted like some of these girls and then went on tv to share it with the world.

Yay, Mia! I'm glad you're here! Interesting observation about Liz not saying they had sex directly into the camera. I've said in her contestant thread that I believe her goal is BIP...(and all the SM schilling that comes with). The only thing that makes me pause on your speculation is that the virgin girl (can't remember her name) said to Nick that Liz told her they hooked up (you see it come out of her mouth, no VO). To me, that means sex...but maybe there's an alternative use that I don't know about.

I do think that Vanessa plays an important role in the season. When she got out of the limo, the "special" music was played. I don't recall if anyone else got it. Their alone time seemed to go well. As far as the previews, I'm pretty sure she gets the G-force airplane date* and I'm debating if she's the one on the yacht with Nick. If so, it appears to be two 1-1s...so she's significant...if, if, if it's her on the yacht. She also was not part of any drama, but was shown to be upset by the "stupid" decisions Nick makes. This indicates to me that she became emotionally invested in him and was hurting from what she found out. Something that I can see a girl who makes it far do. Her upset seemed genuine, but not over the top drama from a girl who walked in already in love with Nick. She struck me as one of the few who belong in the mature/non-drama group. We'll have to see if she has a playful, feisty side because those seem important to Nick. (*FYI, I'm staring a discussion in the screencap thread to see who people think the yacht girl is.)

I think the neonatal nurse goes far as well. She appears to have a 1-1 in the Caribbean.

Finally download the first episode. Already they are implying that there's some drama at the frc like he gets rejected. I don't believe it... It will probably be the usual ending.

20 minutes in and so far I'm liking Rachel and Vanessa. Oh I like Danielle M the neo natal nurse!

These women are all so successful. So glad there are no girls with the title "twin" !

Kristina is gorgeous and her colbalt dress is stunning. Ida Mae as well. Actually there are heaps of girls I like - aww.. Sarah and the runner up joke ... I like her!

Corinne reminds me of Vienna, but she might actually be way worse. In a few years she will look back at this and cringe (hopefully)

I think Corinne is trying to be another Courtney from Ben F's season although she's not nearly as beautiful. She reminds me a little of Erica Rose but without the humor. At first I was worried that he'd be smitten by her a la Ben F but it doesn't seem that way (hopefully).

Hello All!!  Good to be back to posting with everyone  

So glad Nick's season is finally here.  In the minority I know, but back during Andi's season I was Team Nick; I never liked Josh, he was the one that appeared too confident and cocky (look how that turned out).  I think Nick truly thought he was Andi's choice until that last day.  Now, mind you I remember him calling her out on ATFR, but really, after other things people have done/said on this show, how can confronting someone about that be "taboo"?  Granted it isn't very gentlemen-like, but who of us that watch the show don't figure there is sex going on?  PAALLEEASSE, most of the women Monday were offering themselves to Nick after 2 hours!  Him dropping in on Kaitlyn wasn't the best move, but again, producer driven and no one forced her to sleep with him, and I am not sure they made her keep him around until F2.  So again, why did Nick come out the bad guy??

Either Nick was born to be in front of the camera or he is truly genuine.  When he is talking to the women he seems humble, somewhat nervous/shy, and interested.  Game or not, he plays it well and has me hooked.

OK, on to the show!  I liked Vanessa right off the bat, Danielle M and Sarah by the end of the night.  Rachel is definitely there for the long haul but I feel like I wasn't shown the "connection" between them.  Possibly it is being downplayed in edit. Corrine - no comment.  Liz is for drama.  Glad Nick called her out immediately because I was thinking the same thing . . . . you personally interacted with the guy but don't realize you like him until seeing him on TV months later - that is messed up!

Happy viewing and sleuthing all!

I might as well post in non-spoilers since I am clueless about everything. Also, while I kinda like John Lithgow Junior at times, I am not terribly invested in any particular outcome and am willing to go through this journey blind.

Not sure if I will be able to keep up with the episodes, but I did see the premiere and will try to catch tonight's show.

My cute little observations:

They really are milking his past storylines.

Since Nick was unsuccessful on Bachelor In Paradise (and I hope Carly & Evan are still together since they were the one couple who tickled me the most on that one), he is all whoa-is-me in his seasonal promo about always being a bridesmaid but never a bride. He holds the ring while voice-overing "I was very much in love with Andi and Kaitlyn and I was really heartbroken both times." Well... aqua-marine blue Jasmine already picked the ring she wanted from Neil Lane.

When Chris Harrison tells Nick that he is "controversial" before the limos arrive, his response is "the ladies need to ask questions". Does somebody NOT ask questions this season?

I wonder if Alexis and her confusion about her costume being a dolphin instead of a shark suggests that the ladies this season think they are dolphins when they are not.

Those "Hi, my name is..." intro videos of the ladies sure had a lot of ducks in them. Even Liz was feeding them in arid Las Vegas. Go figure. She and Vanessa are the "quackers" this season with plenty to say. Vanessa seems to be all over the place in the promos as a commentator and drama police-lady. What I thought was interesting about her sitdown with Nick is that she did all of the talking for him. He did not comment on her on screen at all.

Jasmine and Corrine are both the go-getters on this show, clawing him into submission. In the promo, he is rolling his eyes "Right in front of these... OMG, Jasmine." Later, with Corrine behind closed doors: "Whooa... wait a minute. Whoa. Sluuurp. Let's slow down. I don't think this is a good idea."

On the other hand, what is Jaimi (who is more into nose rings than Neil Lane rings) doing on this show? On the promo, we hear "Nick was very receptive to my past relationship with my ex-girlfriend.  It felt good to kinda set the stage for the rest of my time here." Huh? Then again she makes more sense than Raven from Hoxie, Arkansaw ending the seasonal promo sobbing "This is terrible. We could potentially not have a wife at the end of this." We? Does she and Nick each want one? Nick may be a little confused himself since he keeps calling the ladies "guys".

First Impression rose awarded attorney Rachel has the Next Bachelorette sign written all over her. Note how Nick says she "stands out". I suspect the producers initially wanted war veteran Jubilee in Ben's season as a lead in order to keep up with more multi-racial times, but she wasn't all that ready and was too involved in the drama. Rachel looks likes she is ready to take charge. I like how she looks sympathetic to Nick in all of his promo boo-hoo scenes. My guess is that she makes it far, but I kinda doubt she's F1.

The one "stand out" for me in the premiere and promo, although she may wind up as a top three or four dumpee instead (since I tend to gravitate towards those instead the actual F1), is the blonde nurse Danielle M. The maple syrup intro, sticking her finger in his mouth, was pretty... um... erotic. It was not blatant like Corrine discussing her platinum whatever. She seems like a Plain Jane type who isn't flaunting it; their sitdown seemed very ordinary, as if she is the girl-next-door competing with the actresses and fashion models. She also has some interesting "hot" spots in the seasonal promo reminding me of a couple (not all) past F1s. It sounds like her covering the voice-over line "There's intrigue, there's connection and there's chemistry and it, like, completely exceeded my expectations." I also detected a little editor tomfoolery involving shots of her (I think it is her and not Josephine) in a bathrobe that are obviously in two locales: one with a group of ladies and one in some sort of suite just as Nick is leaving. Whenever something odd like this is happening, I always get curious. Although curiosity does get me in trouble often.

Wow. My opinion of Nick and several of these contestants just plummeted. So much so that I'm going over to the dark side.

MiaHawk wrote:Wow. My opinion of Nick and several of these contestants just plummeted. So much so that I'm going over to the dark side.  

Aww, MiaHawk, we'll miss you over here.

Personally, I think this is a bump in the road that Nick will work his way through. Liz showed terribly bad judgment in spilling her secret (and to the virgin Christen of all people!) but IMO she would have been sent home at some point anyway. At this point in her life she gives every appearance of being a train wreck.

The bigger confusion for me is in what Nick is looking for. Does he (really) want Corinne's in-your-face aggressiveness and sexuality, or is he looking more for someone like Danielle M., who really impressed me with her rather innocent enjoyment of her date and her sincere search for love? I personally am interested in the latter, not the former. If and when Nick sends Corinne home, then I will know that he is likely on the right path.

The wedding group date was cute and fun, and the date at the relationship museum was fine. I was interested to see Nick's rose and potential engagement ring for Kaitlyn there. I loved Danielle's 1-on-1 date.

I also really liked Raven in this episode. I'm not a Jaimi fan at this point. Christen is nice, but I don't see a match with Nick there. Everyone else seemed fine. I know some of the cast members now, but I am having trouble sorting others out. I keep asking, who is that person?

@Amethyst There is a banner with the names of all the remaining ladies for your reference.