Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #2

relaxing wrote:My quick opinion on the great discussion in here is that I think it's cool that people can have fun with social media and make money off it and extroverted people or attention seekers can use it in ways they enjoy. As a private person I'm not into it and glad I'm not a 20something anymore in this age.  The selling of stuff doesn't bother me though (although I don't get how it's so lucrative for them) - if they can make money that way, why not.

My problem is more with how many of the cast now seem to want to be models and are using SM as basically a modelling platform and seem to want to promote themselves and be admired and followed for their looks.  That is the thing that turns me off.  And IMO Nick has done that with the best of them.  Becca clearly wanted/wants to be a model IMO.  Nick actually became a model.  Most of them do it now. Even Caila and Lauren B who seem like grouned, quality people seem to post many, many set up shots or photo shoot shots etc to their SM IMO. And don't even get me started on these filters.

I just liked the old days where people from the show seemed to value more about themselves and their lives than their looks, outfits, makeup and diets JMO.  If I think back a few years I can think of most of the top 4 people carrying on with their real lives while grabbing opportunities that might have come up.  Now it seems most of the women try to become social media models and make a living off their lifestyle habits versus even a charismatic personality or talent.  I wish they would promote themselves for more than their looks. People should be so much more than their physical attractiveness.  That goes for Nick too and what he turned into post fame bug IMO. I think it's a whole generational thing but that's the thing about the SM trend that turns me off.  And Nick is very close to my age, not so much to a 25 year old so him being part of the social media model and fame chase at his age is a disappointment to me from someone who originally seemed about much more than his looks on Andi's season. JMO.

Nonina430 wrote:Relaxing, I don't understand your post. Modeling is an occupation.
A quite lucrative one if I may add. In time.Many times it leads to
other opportunities such as acting etc. I don't see a prob
with making a living off of your good looks, lucky those. 

I think what the post was getting at is about being about more than your looks. Most of these people are incredibly good looking, and most were before too. Before, I felt we got to know more about them then just their pretty faces, and advertising beauty, diet and exercise things only lets us know that small part of them. A lot (not all) are more like caricatures of people instead of fully developed people IMO.

I know we are not to compare, so if the mods need to delete, I am sorry and feel free. But with Brooks I see a gorgeous model and actor, but he shows us so much more as well. I used to feel that way about Nick, but for the last year, except for November, it is mostly shirtless selfies, workouts and efforts to show us how good he looks. I gave up on trying to find any depth in Nick. Again that is my choice and doesn't mean he needs to change for me, rather, I just don't need to follow him any more. All is my opinion and @relaxing I agreed with your post so much and hope you don't mind my hijacking the answer to @Nonina430.

^good thoughts.

I think that the casting agents for this show select out Beautiful People to be on this show. By that, I mean society and TV's definition of Beautiful.

For a woman that means being a size O, pretty facial features, and nice hair. Also, I think for the women, the idea of being on tv kind of self-selects out those that would love to be photographed and filmed (or at least don't have any problem with it), to play dress up and have a reason to show off their pretty clothes, to fuss with their hair and make up more than the average gal, etc. So, I think that the casting process alone pretty much eliminates anyone who is too modest, shy, or self-conscious to walk around in a tiny bikini or post selfies. There are a few exceptions to the rule, but those people are typically MOT and don't get much publicity anyway. Then there are a few exceptions who, because of a strong personal feeling or professional reasons, don't identify with the Beautiful persona but rather some other aspect (like being a dentist, or a lawyer, or a teacher---professions that would probably not look kindly on over self-promotion. In certain jobs you need to be taken very seriously and not have a big social footprint)

For the men that means having a developed build, muscles, low body fat, a certain height, the right haircut, just the right amount of facial and body hair, beautiful eyes, nice facial features, possibly the right clothes. No man is naturally ripped. These are guys that put in hours daily at the gym and work for their physiques. A lot used to participate in sports and have a competitive and confident nature. The ones that model are comfortable in front of cameras, comfortable with showing their bodies off. They work at their bodies and are happy with them (I imagine).

Somebody wants to pay them to takes some photos of them wearing clothes or shoes or with an item because they are beautiful and handsome. That's just how the world works. Any spokesperson for a company or product is chosen based on appearances----front desk receptionists at large corporations, flight attendants, actors in tv commercials, etc. Beautiful, flashy, confident, and thin/built sells. As soon as average, frumpy, uncomfortable, and chubby sells we'll start to see a different type of contestant on this show. But, I am not holding my breath.

My Stucki, I am not a fan of Nick's never have been, I am 
more defending the profession of modeling, and too where
it has brought Brooks. Love you girl. 

Nice post @relaxing. I also appreciate people with depth and multiple facets. I am drawn to interesting people who have depth and curiosity about life, art, travel, work and a myriad aspects regarding our world. Interesting conversations and life experience are so much more appealing than Camera ready Looks. I am attracted to Real. I don't see any of that in Nick. His discussion on Juliet Litman's podcast made it clear to me that his life revolves around Bachelor nation. I personally find that boring. Meh.
JMO

Nonina430 wrote:My Stucki, I am not a fan of Nick's never have been, I am 
more defending the profession of modeling, and too where
it has brought Brooks. Love you girl. 

I know, sweetie, you too. I think it was not meant as an insult to modeling, it is hard and for many not very glamorous work. But the looks and modeling when it is all we get is boring, at least to me. JMO.

stuckinsc wrote:

relaxing wrote:My quick opinion on the great discussion in here is that I think it's cool that people can have fun with social media and make money off it and extroverted people or attention seekers can use it in ways they enjoy. As a private person I'm not into it and glad I'm not a 20something anymore in this age.  The selling of stuff doesn't bother me though (although I don't get how it's so lucrative for them) - if they can make money that way, why not.

My problem is more with how many of the cast now seem to want to be models and are using SM as basically a modelling platform and seem to want to promote themselves and be admired and followed for their looks.  That is the thing that turns me off.  And IMO Nick has done that with the best of them.  Becca clearly wanted/wants to be a model IMO.  Nick actually became a model.  Most of them do it now. Even Caila and Lauren B who seem like grouned, quality people seem to post many, many set up shots or photo shoot shots etc to their SM IMO. And don't even get me started on these filters.

I just liked the old days where people from the show seemed to value more about themselves and their lives than their looks, outfits, makeup and diets JMO.  If I think back a few years I can think of most of the top 4 people carrying on with their real lives while grabbing opportunities that might have come up.  Now it seems most of the women try to become social media models and make a living off their lifestyle habits versus even a charismatic personality or talent.  I wish they would promote themselves for more than their looks. People should be so much more than their physical attractiveness.  That goes for Nick too and what he turned into post fame bug IMO. I think it's a whole generational thing but that's the thing about the SM trend that turns me off.  And Nick is very close to my age, not so much to a 25 year old so him being part of the social media model and fame chase at his age is a disappointment to me from someone who originally seemed about much more than his looks on Andi's season. JMO.

Nonina430 wrote:Relaxing, I don't understand your post. Modeling is an occupation.
A quite lucrative one if I may add. In time.Many times it leads to
other opportunities such as acting etc. I don't see a prob
with making a living off of your good looks, lucky those. 

I think what the post was getting at is about being about more than your looks. Most of these people are incredibly good looking, and most were before too. Before, I felt we got to know more about them then just their pretty faces, and advertising beauty, diet and exercise things only lets us know that small part of them. A lot (not all) are more like caricatures of people instead of fully developed people IMO.

I know we are not to compare, so if the mods need to delete, I am sorry and feel free. But with Brooks I see a gorgeous model and actor, but he shows us so much more as well. I used to feel that way about Nick, but for the last year, except for November, it is mostly shirtless selfies, workouts and efforts to show us how good he looks. I gave up on trying to find any depth in Nick. Again that is my choice and doesn't mean he needs to change for me, rather, I just don't need to follow him any more. All is my opinion and @relaxing I agreed with your post so much and hope you don't mind my hijacking the answer to @Nonina430.

A couple of thoughts:

The show has always cast beautiful people, IMO. What the show seems to do less and less is show us any real conversations or depth of the contestants' personalities. So, we end the season not knowing very much about these contestants, and often times what we were told/sold about them via the edit or SM rumors, is far from accurate. But thinking that we are going to get to truly know these people via their SM is wrong, IMO. SM is not about that.

I am, admitted, not a big user/watcher of SM. Why? Because, in general, I find it superfluous, gratuitous, and annoying most of the time. That's just me and my opinion of it. I don't expect to see depth of character, Nobel Prize worthy discussions, or anything very enlightening or informative at all on it. Most people take photographs of themselves doing ordinary things or at social gatherings with friends. I don't expect to see into the soul of anyone by looking at their social media posts or photos. It's just a fun and silly way to share little moments with people that they feel comfortable sharing.

They are in shape and comfortable with their bodies, therefore shirtless is something that is no big deal these men. I don't necessarily read into it that they are trying to show off the goods, they are just doing what they do. Handsome men often go shirtless and beautiful women often wear plunging necklines and slits up to there. That's just what happens. That is what it's like to be young and beautiful.

SM has been around a while now. I have observed different behaviors on it. Some people posting a minute by minute timeline of every mundane task of their day. Some people ranting about personal family issues that I don't believe should be aired in public at all. Some people doting endlessly on loved ones ad nauseum. Some getting into political arguments that will never end well. Some being inappropriate, harassing, or bullying. All of those things bother me more than someone who doesn't share too much of the private, personal, important things in their lives with total strangers. Nobody owes me anything. Nobody needs to introduce themselves to me and tell me all about their hopes, dreams, and heart's desires. I guess I have really low expectations for SM. Heck, I for one don't mind looking at young and beautiful men. Bring on the shirtless pics. I'm ok with that.

JMHOAA.

OT -- SM has gotten completely out of hand. I guess I'm just an old-fashioned senior citizen, but when I hear that people take their I-phones and the like into the bathroom with them, it makes me think all reason is gone. Without being dramatic, this dependence on devices will signal the end to verbal communication and may very well bring down civilization as we knew it. JMHOFWIW.

@MiaHawk, I am older too, but spent five of the last six years being a classmate and teaching assistant to a lot of early to late 20 somethings. Some of their SM was cute selfies, but they also talked about school and volunteering and politics, concerns for how to bridge the gap to the less fortunate, and many other things. Their SM reflected the multidimensional aspects of them as people. Now these were people seeking graduate education, but I just do not think most young people are as shallow as many of these people from the show's SM would lead me to believe.

And SM is a big way of how this generation does communicate who they are to the world.  And not all in bachelor world are this way. Nikki Ferrell, JPG's F1, has posts about her love of nursing and for Kansas City. She isn't over SM active, but she uses it enough. The same can be said for Des who is very SM savvy. Being young and beautiful doesn't have to make you shallow and one dimensional, but for many not all, of these people they are. At least in my opinion.

The truth is maybe I have changed, but with a presidential race based around the lowest of the low when it comes to issues, maybe the truth is I just no longer enjoy this kind of entertainment. I am less willing to spend the time seeking out those I consider gems amount the many I feel don't add much value. And that is my problem, not there's.

I just focus on who's on my tv at the moment. Right now that's Nick and he will be there on my tube in January. He's present on screen which makes him enjoyable to watch and I like his snarky humor. With that said, I don't have any personal investment once he's gone. I will probably check on here for updates. Imo whatever he does or doesn't do on SM is not my business. My sole purpose for watching is to be entertained. It's an outlet for me. And of course this board. This is just what works for me. That way I'm not disappointed, no matter what he does with his life.

The thing about social media is that you have immediate feedback as to what it is your followers want from you. If Nick is posting mostly shirtless selfies, it would be because that is what most of his followers want.

Accounts get pegged by type pretty quickly, and followers want the accounts they follow to stick to the script. I have just a small "travel" Instagram account and it was interesting to see how quickly I felt the pressure to stick to a certain type of photo. The first thing you see is the volume of likes and comments, but you can also track when your followers drop you. There are definitely unwritten "rules" to this game and you will lose followers if you aren't following them (to the point where it is difficult to keep a account "just for fun;" I've pulled back on mine a lot because it was too much pressure for a hobby).

I'm not fond of how this all has played into things for the show, but there is no stopping that freight train.

Personally, I follow none of the cast members from this show, but I do like it when you all let me know what they've posted.

It did surprise me when Nick went the model/social media route, because he is a smart guy who was in a lucrative field. It makes more sense to me when someone in a mediocre job or without a real career starts to work social media; for them, no matter how shallow it seems to us, it actually gives them a chance to make more money and advance their prospects.

Maybe Nick found his accounts taking off and simply decided to run with it while he had the chance. Or maybe he hated his former career. Or maybe he got pulled in by the strong tide of pressure social media can put on its personalities. Who knows.

I do enjoy him on my TV screen, so all is good.

MiaHawk wrote:

BKay wrote:Mia, good post and nice insight. I love the way you word things and express yourself (and am always glad when you "overshare" with us!) Don't ever stop!  

Thanks for the kind words.  

Maybe somebody here knows the ins and outs of SM promoting and can enlighten me on what kind of money there is to be made.  If it's a lot, perhaps this old dog might be able to learn a few new tricks!  

Think about traditional home parties.  I have hosted and attended numerous home parties over my lifetime.  Tupperware, Pampered Chef, Lia Sophia, Candle Lite, Garden Party, etc, etc, etc.  I have agreed to host a gathering at my home, sent out invitations to myr friends, products have been showcased, purchases were made, and as a host I earned free products or a certain percentage off the price of my own purchases.  The company utilized me, an everyday person, to be the one to showcase these items in my home (thus cutting down on company overhead), friends bonded during this social interaction and over their shared interest in these products, free or reduced-price promotional items were earned, and the consultants earned a commission on party sales.  In fact, unlike the SM promoting, with the home party there is possible awkwardness to accept an invitation to a gathering you're not interested in attending or any obligation for your friends to feel like they need to spend money and purchase something just to be polite. With the SM promoting, I imagine there is less awkwardness or obligation to buy.

So, if I'm going to rag on somebody promoting an item via a photo on their SM, then I guess I'm going to have to rag on myself for having been a host of a home party or two.  

I think that just like with Tuperware it is actually quite difficult to make money off of social media. Before you can make a dime you have to get BIG, VERY BIG, and that isn't easy. A lot of people get lured in by the idea of making money off of it, but only a few actually do.

I don't know the details of it but it is all about the volume of eyeballs hitting your page. You can target a demographic quite effectively via social media, so if an account has the right demographic and the right volume, it will be paid to basically advertise products. Of course, followers don't want to KNOW they are being advertised to or they might stop following (lost eyeballs are no good!), so slipping in the ads in an effective way takes a little work. I must admit, I do find the business model of it all quite interesting, even though I haven't had time to dig in very far. My kids, however, seem to organically know how it works; to them it is simply a part of their world they take for granted (neither has any interest in going that route).

Do we know why they announced him as the bachelor while he was still on BIP?