Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #2

I'm so sorry seton, I do feel for you ... since I specifically love that "smug face" ... the smirk ... my favorite feature of Nick's face.

Stacia620 wrote:IMO Juan Pablo was one of the WORST, if not the worst Bachelor.  I don't think its best to always go with what the majority of fans want.  If I remember correctly, JPG was the wanted man for TB, and look how that turned out.  Awful.  Same with Farmer Chris. He was terrible too.  I don't get all the fuss about Luke, but to each their own.  I'm a fan of Nick and if this does not work out for him this time, I doubt anyone will see him on TV again.

I wanted JPG along with many other fans. And I hated his season. He was awful. I was rooting for Nikki to be F1 only because she was equally horrible. I was never crazy about Farmer Chris, but I didn't have too many objections, either. I just didn't know him well enough. And I developed a dislike for him during his season.

What both seasons taught me is that I don't have the whole story when it comes to picking leads. The producers see a lot more than I ever will. I think there were some solid choices from Jojo's season, but I am *delighted*  that Nick was chosen. I've been rooting for him for a long time now.

happygolucky wrote: I'm so sorry seton, I do feel for you ... since I specifically love that "smug face" ... the smirk ... my favorite feature of Nick's face.

Thank you. It's a cross I must bear like age and taxes. Maybe if Nick can do the show with a bag over his head, miming (because his garbled mumblese is bad also) and just go around shirtless showing those abs, my life can be more bearable?

I've watched the show since the first season as well and I can't think of a Bachelor I've liked better than Nick. The previous leads, for me, have ranged from borderline repulsive to inoffensive yet boring, so he's a step in the right direction.

reason wrote:

BKay wrote:I've seen numbers on this site before about what leads earn. Kasha or GA will likely remember. i vaguely recall a range of $50,000 to $250,000, depending on how badly they wanted the person. But someone cmiiw.

Nick never asked for the lead and his sister say they were surprise about it all, so I am guessing they are going to pay him abit more. They asked him not him asking them.

I have to disagree.  Nick has been desperate to be the lead for the past year, he would have jumped at the chance to replace Ben had the producers asked him.  He was ready to go on DWTS.  Moreover, he was no longer earning big bucks in his software career and the producers had two willing and relatively acceptable backups, so I don't see that Nick had any negotiating power at all on this one.

Regarding Nick's future, now that he has achieved "the pinnacle" in Bachelor fame/whoredom, if he decides not to go back to a "normal" job, what do his fans think he is qualified to do in media, career-wise? I can't see him making a real living off modeling, I don't think his mumbling will get him very far in terms of being a "host". Will he just continue to scrounge for work on whatever other reality show that will have him? I guess he can do the Reality Couples Therapy with his "fiancee". Maybe a cooking competition like Farmer Chris? What other talents does he have? Really curious.

As far as Nick and sex, what I remember from his comments post Andi is that he felt that sex was something very special when you're in love and it's important that both people should be on the same page about what the sex means before they engage.  If there's an imbalance, ie one party is in love and the other isn't, there shouldn't be sex.  A fine standard as far as I'm concerned, and I'll be interested to see how/if Nick holds to it when he takes his F3 women to the FS.  If all three women have already professed their love to him (seems to be the rule of thumb these days) by that point, will he still have sex with the (presumably) two whose feelings he doesn't reciprocate?  Good luck with this one, Nick.

IMO, Tptb approached Nick last season, along with Ben.  He would have been the obvious choice given his past two appearances with Andi, and then Kaitlyn.  He fell in love, and both of them treated him horribly.  I can understand them going with Ben, and his popularity, just as I can understand them wanting Nick this time.  Their prospect from JoJo's season were not good (IMO), and this just makes sense any way you look at it.

ironcat wrote:

reason wrote:

BKay wrote:I've seen numbers on this site before about what leads earn. Kasha or GA will likely remember. i vaguely recall a range of $50,000 to $250,000, depending on how badly they wanted the person. But someone cmiiw.

Nick never asked for the lead and his sister say they were surprise about it all, so I am guessing they are going to pay him abit more. They asked him not him asking them.

I have to disagree.  Nick has been desperate to be the lead for the past year, he would have jumped at the chance to replace Ben had the producers asked him.  He was ready to go on DWTS.  Moreover, he was no longer earning big bucks in his software career and the producers had two willing and relatively acceptable backups, so I don't see that Nick had any negotiating power at all on this one.

As far as Nick and sex, what I remember from his comments post Andi is that he felt that sex was something very special when you're in love and it's important that both people should be on the same page about what the sex means before they engage.  If there's an imbalance, ie one party is in love and the other isn't, there shouldn't be sex.  A fine standard as far as I'm concerned, and I'll be interested to see how/if Nick holds to it when he takes his F3 women to the FS.  If all three women have already professed their love to him (seems to be the rule of thumb these days) by that point, will he still have sex with the (presumably) two whose feelings he doesn't reciprocate?  Good luck with this one, Nick.

Great post @ironcat. Nick has been pursuing the bachelor since he moved to LA. It is IMO why he did BiP against his previous statements that he would not. While not completely different, this version of Nick does not have all the same values as the man who we met on Andi's season. He has contradicted his own previous statements too much for him to still be the same. His choice, so good for him, I am just personally over it, but then again I grew up in a large family too and view his maybe not having much from that set of experiences. I predict he ends up with someone equally committed to living the lifestyle he is currently living. I don't see Nick as wanting that old life back. That is okay and his choice, just like it is my choice to not like him anymore. Nick has shown us what and who he is now, what he wants in a woman will fit who he is now IMO.

I also predict that now that he is lead he will defend having fiance/love type sex as being necessary to his making the right choice. He has contradicted himself on so many other things he said after Andi's season why not that too. Key to me will be if he admits that maybe he should have cut Andi more slack for her actions.

He and Kaitlyn were two consenting adults, it was just shown unlike previous contestants. IMO, it was part of choosing Nick to be the lead, they want tv-MA this season, not the ABC family/lukewarm sexuality of Farmer and "Perfect" Ben. Again JMO.

^^^ I guess time will tell. None of us can predict anything in someone else's life, or someone else's journey through life. These are Nick's choices, and he has to live with his choices (as we all do), good, bad, or indifferent.

^^^
Totally agree with your post. It is Nicks life not ours to choose what he does or does not do. He is a grown man that I have not seen a huge change in him. He loves taking risk and living on the edge. Just because others do not agree with his lifestyle that does not mean he is a bad man. He stands for what he does and does not make excuses for his actions. JMO

bleuberry wrote:No shade to him but I honestly don't think sex means a whole lot to him - or that it means he's in love or committed. I tend to believe the rumour that he's 'jumped the sack' with 5 or so women from Bach nation and likely a few not from the show (shocker I know ). I imagine he'll test out quite a few of his 25 women too, there's a reason Nick was picked and I can't imagine they're wanting to continue his good guy redemption story.

I honestly think this is one of the biggest misconceptions in Nick's narrative for many viewers that continues to be perpetuated and used as some criticism of him. Nick made it clear in many of his media interviews post Andi's season that he has no issues with casual sex, as long as everyone is on the same page. He also made it clear that he didn't think that Andi was obligated to pick him just because they slept together.

His confusion was why she did when she would later say she was never in love with him, was not confused about her feelings and knew from the start that Josh was the guy for her. This, after the fact that he also said he let her know that he didn't think sex was an absolute when they went into the Fantasy Suite. That is why Andi's mentioning his comment in bed in that thing she called a book only made her look worse in my opinion and validated his comments.

Because I felt like Nick's asking Andi if she preferred making love or the more crude expression was his further trying to confirm her feelings at the time. In other words was it just a hookup situation or were real feelings involved?

I didn't think Kaitlyn treated him much better. Once Kaitlyn picked Shawn she seemed almost contemptuous of Nick. She seemed to have a smug quality about her rejection of him. I feel like saying to these women, look, YOU took Nick to F2 so you must have seen something in him. No reason to do a 180. I think if you send someone home at F2 (F3,F4) you owe it to them to be sensitive of their feelings and that there was *something* there between the two of you.

My favorite was when Kaitlyn said later in one of their media interviews after the finale, with that stupid cackle of hers, "like just because I said you could come onto the show didn't mean you had to stay till the end". And all I could think was did that dumba** not realize that she had the power to send Nick home ANYTIME by simply not giving him a rose? Like the hell?

And that's another reason I've always been amused at the judgments on Nick about the pre-FS sex with Kaitlyn - "omg so rude and disrespectful and gross to the other guys". But funny enough, what I remember playing out on my television was Kaitlyn in complete control of that situation. Girlfriend practically climbed Nick like a tree and dry humped him in public before inviting him back to her hotel room. But he was the one who got judged for their actions.

And like Andi, our Kaitlyn swore Shawn was it for her from the first night but neither had any issues riding Nick and in Kaitlyn's case, more than once. But both times, somehow HE became the villain and they both treated him like some trash under their shoe at the ATFR. And that is why I'm with others on being amused by this so called BIP redemption of Nick. Redemption for what?

ironcat wrote:I have to disagree.  Nick has been desperate to be the lead for the past year, he would have jumped at the chance to replace Ben had the producers asked him.  He was ready to go on DWTS.  Moreover, he was no longer earning big bucks in his software career and the producers had two willing and relatively acceptable backups, so I don't see that Nick had any negotiating power at all on this one.

Regarding Nick's future, now that he has achieved "the pinnacle" in Bachelor fame/whoredom, if he decides not to go back to a "normal" job, what do his fans think he is qualified to do in media, career-wise?  I can't see him making a real living off modeling, I don't think his mumbling will get him very far in terms of being a "host".  Will he just continue to scrounge for work on whatever other reality show that will have him?  I guess he can do the Reality Couples Therapy with his "fiancee". Maybe a cooking competition like Farmer Chris?  What other talents does he have?  Really curious.

Yes, I agree. Nick wanted this gig desperately. More power to him for that. He certainly paid enough dues to get it.

I knew two working male models when I was living in NYC. Nick is better looking and photographs better than either one of them. Plus, Nick has a name and a following. I don't think that the modeling industry is quite so harsh on men as it is on women. JMO.

As a longtime DWTS fan, I would *love* to see Nick on that show. It pays its celebs well, especially if they go far in the season. And if Nick gets a decent edit on TB, as I think he will, going on DWTS will be a given for him.

I don't see why he can't live off of his sponsorships and earnings if he is careful with his money and invests it well.

Ileyki :perfect: I agree. Redemption of what? ... He was always this Nick, contrary of Stuck I don't see Nick contradicting so much (the thing that was off, to me, were some of his tweets lately concerning the rivalry with Josh and some unnecessary support of AI, but that's his prerogative) ... but then again I never saw him as perfect either ... I'm just amused by him and how he handles the situation he's in. Sometimes I see him grown up and matured (or as some would say in a negative connotation, he lost his naivety), sometimes I see the same guy from WI, with the values his family installed ... but with more confidence to be himself even when the situation would recall another type of behaviour.