MAFS - Season 4 - Derek Schwartz - Heather Seidel

nuts2uiam wrote: snipped..

While I am sure there are additional factors that played into it.  JMO, but in my mind, she was simply unattracted to him from the start and that alone prevented her from being, "all in", from the actual ceremony and into the honeymoon.    For the purposes of this argument, and only that purpose, I will also suggest that if, in fact, pot was the problem, unless he smoked right before and reeked of the smell, at that point she could not have known he was a pothead.  Once again, this pot usage is all alleged, but, and I would feel deceived too.  If a marriage is not based upon truth, that makes it tough but, IMO, she was turned off by him the minute she met him and there was no hope for them, out of the gate.

No attraction or at best little attraction,  + her aversion to "smoking" = zero chance for success.

snipped

ITA and that's the way I see it.

Too many posts to quote so I will shorten it.

You're never going to see that definitive proof unless someone with a phone caught it and uploads the video.

I realize that, or if Derek admits it himself. We don't assume on this forum, we provide proof.

Re DUI Yes she was charged, no she wasn't charged, yes she was charged. That's an example of how incorrect information can spread without proof. I do not want to be responsible for inaccurate information.

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/heather-seidel-derek-schwartz-married-at-first-sight-drug-scandal-109728

This article is an example of where some get their information from. Nothing more than what we have discussed here, without quoting the source.

If anyone wants to sue anyone, they can sue InTouch, not BBF.

It's a s/shot and I don't see it on Heather's Twitter. What is the date, and what is inside the link. TYIA

Amberish wrote:Actually, I read a bit more into the tweet, being the reason she would not tolerate and bail on the marriage early on.

GuardianAngel wrote:

nuts2uiam wrote: snipped..

Whi
snipped

ITA and that's the way I see it.

Too many posts to quote so I will shorten it.

You're never going to see that definitive proof unless someone with a phone caught it and uploads the video.

I realize that, or if Derek admits it himself. We don't assume on this forum, we provide proof.

Re DUI Yes she was charged, no she wasn't charged, yes she was charged. That's an example of how incorrect information can spread without proof. I do not want to be responsible for inaccurate information.

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/heather-seidel-derek-schwartz-married-at-first-sight-drug-scandal-109728

This article is an example of where some get their information from. Nothing more than what we have discussed here, without quoting the source.

If anyone wants to sue anyone, they can sue InTouch, not BBF.

It's a s/shot and I don't see it on Heather's Twitter. What is the date, and what is inside the link. TYIA

Amberish wrote:Actually, I read a bit more into the tweet, being the reason she would not tolerate and bail on the marriage early on.

The link was to a copy of her court records for the charges. It was removed after much persuasion from fans.

Thanks @Ruqibabe

Considering she was accused of drinking too much by Derek, plus we saw her drinking too much, that comment doesn't make sense to me.

If they didn't show her drinking being an issue, then maybe it would be more appropriate. What does her previous charges have to do with "her journey" since she continues to drink.

Unfortunately IMO she has come across as someone who wants it her way or no way. Hopefully whatever her challenges are she can resolve them.

GuardianAngel wrote:Thanks @Ruqibabe

Considering she was accused of drinking too much by Derek, plus we saw her drinking too much, that comment doesn't make sense to me.

If they didn't show her drinking being an issue, then maybe it would be more appropriate. What does her previous charges have to do with "her journey" since she continues to drink.

Unfortunately IMO she has come across as someone who wants it her way or no way. Hopefully whatever her challenges are she can resolve them.

Her alleged records was for DUI and substance. I just think she didn't like Derek so she didn't try.

@Ruqibabe IA - there was no instant attraction on her part, which led to everything he said or did annoyed her. The very next day she's complaining he's messy. The way she said it, she lost my interest in her as well at that time. She checked out right after the wedding IMO.

Heather may not have been attracted to Derek from the start however I think she would have given him a shot had he not been so nasty to her. I also believe that him smoking whatever had a huge impact. I totally get people being down on her for being cold and distant but to me they were both at fault. Derek was not the victim no matter how much he tried to play one IMO.

I realize that I'm biased against him myself because his personality turned me off from the start. I don't find him the least bit attractive because of that more than his looks. Smoking would have been a deal breaker no matter what it is, no offense to anyone who feels differently. I have 2 family members who died of lung cancer way too young and they had stopped smoking much earlier. I'm hoping that both of them learn something from watching themselves on tv.

albean99 wrote:Heather may not have been attracted to Derek from the start however I think she would have given him a shot had he not been so nasty to her. I also believe that him smoking whatever had a huge impact. I totally get people being down on her for being cold and distant but to me they were both at fault. Derek was not the victim no matter how much he tried to blame one IMO.

I realize that I'm biased against him myself because his personality turned me off from the start. I don't find him the least bit attractive because of that more than his looks. Smoking would have been a deal breaker no matter what it is, no offense to anyone who feels differently. I have 2 family members who died of lung cancer way too young and they had stopped smoking much earlier. I'm hoping that both of them learn something from watching themselves on tv.

I am going to agree with you that they are both at fault. From Derek's ny and knot interview, I think he realized that he screwed up but he can't admit it yet because I think the producers don't want the what-was-he-smoking-question to be answered. IMO

Yeah, I don't think one can watch this show reasonably and critique these marriages as if these are ordinary people we might relate to as if they lived down the street or worked down the hall.

Instead, these are people who trusted experts (by the premise) to match them so they could marry immediately.

The premise of the show OUGHT to eliminate pot smokers (IMO, LOL), bankrupts, STDs, weirdos, self-promoters ... and about 100 other disqualifying traits for this "experiment".  Not that flawed people with those sorts of issues don't deserve to find love, marry or whatever.  But to first marry, then have only six weeks to decide, in reliance on "expert" matchmaking requires a huge leap of faith that would be immediately shattered should certain traits appear.

And THAT my friends is obvious to anyone starting with the producers.

So this supports by Scraping the Barrel theory of casting -- where they can't find compatible matches willing to do the show, from among the many who (reportedly) apply.

I don't understand why people are coming down on her for "checking out" before the alleged smoking even happened.

He did not make a good first impression on her. Whether that was looks, personality, whatever, is irrelevant, really. She met him and decided he wasn't what she expected. That's clear, and I don't think anyone here disputes that. She said the "I do", they had the reception, they went on the honeymoon. When they got to the honeymoon, she didn't appear to have completely checked out. She was concerned about his mention of gambling, but was still making small talk and asking questions. He had an uphill battle though, as he was going to have to win her over since the initial chemistry wasn't there.

So far, there is no difference between these two and, say, Ryan and Jackie from Season 2, or Sam and Neil from Season 3. Guy is hurt that his wife had no initial attraction to him. Sam mentioned she didn't feel attracted, while Jackie couldn't stop talking about how she wasn't attracted the first few weeks. In both cases, the guys kept mostly calm and respectful, and after a few weeks of trying, Sam fell for Neil, and Jackie became a horndog for Ryan.

The difference between those two couples begins when Heather doesn't have that attraction, and Derek chooses to go on the attack instead of hang back and be patient like Ryan and Sam. Then of course there's the smoking issue. "I" am convinced he smoked pot, but am dropping that since no one even tried to dispute the evidence I gave to support it. Therefore, "smoking" in general added to the non-attraction.

Ryan and Neil were able to turn an initial non-attraction into both women wanting them, by recognizing the issue and working on it. I don't see anyone condemning those two women for "checking out" the first week. Heather was no different - until the smoking and the way he spoke to her became a deal breaker. The argument is made that he quit smoking after she asked him, but by then, and by her own account, he had smoked every morning since the day after the wedding, and that's all it took. The way he spoke to her and the signs of jealousy just sealed the deal. It was on him to try and win her over like the other guys, and he failed to do it.

I firmly believe she's getting the raw deal here, but that's the last I'm going to mention it. No one is changing their minds, and with them being done, I don't think anything short of a full confession on what really happened behind the scenes will make a difference in how they're viewed the future.

MAFSMinority wrote:I don't understand why people are coming down on her for "checking out" before the alleged smoking even happened.

He did not make a good first impression on her.  Whether that was looks, personality, whatever, is irrelevant, really.  She met him and decided he wasn't what she expected.  That's clear, and I don't think anyone here disputes that.  She said the "I do", they had the reception, they went on the honeymoon.  When they got to the honeymoon, she didn't appear to have completely checked out.  She was concerned about his mention of gambling, but was still making small talk and asking questions.  He had an uphill battle though, as he was going to have to win her over since the initial chemistry wasn't there.  

So far, there is no difference between these two and, say, Ryan and Jackie from Season 2, or Sam and Neil from Season 3.  Guy is hurt that his wife had no initial attraction to him.  Sam mentioned she didn't feel attracted, while Jackie couldn't stop talking about how she wasn't attracted the first few weeks.  In both cases, the guys kept mostly calm and respectful, and after a few weeks of trying, Sam fell for Neil, and Jackie became a horndog for Ryan.

The difference between those two couples begins when Heather doesn't have that attraction, and Derek chooses to go on the attack instead of hang back and be patient like Ryan and Sam.  Then of course there's the smoking issue.  "I" am convinced he smoked pot, but am dropping that since no one even tried to dispute the evidence I gave to support it.  Therefore, "smoking" in general added to the non-attraction.

Ryan and Neil were able to turn an initial non-attraction into both women wanting them, by recognizing the issue and working on it.  I don't see anyone condemning those two women for "checking out" the first week.  Heather was no different - until the smoking and the way he spoke to her became a deal breaker.  The argument is made that he quit smoking after she asked him, but by then, and by her own account, he had smoked every morning since the day after the wedding, and that's all it took.  The way he spoke to her and the signs of jealousy just sealed the deal.  It was on him to try and win her over like the other guys, and he failed to do it.

I firmly believe she's getting the raw deal here, but that's the last I'm going to mention it.  No one is changing their minds, and with them being done, I don't think anything short of a full confession on what really happened behind the scenes will make a difference in how they're viewed the future.

IMO, she saw him and he turned her off. She seemed to turn off between the wedding and the pictures. Even if she thought his neck kissing were inappropriate, she could have said, "can you please stop that, it is making me uncomfortable". (It is,of course possible that she did say something, but we did not see it). My thinking on this is, that if you are cavalier enough to try this as a marriage method, you have to be cavalier enough to overlook other things too. (Not speaking about the alleged, pot usage.) I have said before that my feeling is that she was turned off almost at the start, and he never had a shot. Then he did little to help himself.

We want the handsome guy and knock out gal to be our partner, but once you get to know someone the inner beauty is what seals the deal. Here, I believe she was turned off by his looks, and she was never able to get to know him. I am not saying that it would have turned out differently because just from the very little we have been shown, she seems a little uptight and straight laced and he seems as loose as a goose and carefree. FWIW, not that I would ever find myself in such a position but I am much more like her than him, given my description. Once again, the "experts failed then miserably.

nuts2uiam wrote:

MAFSMinority wrote:I don't understand why people are coming down on her for "checking out" before the alleged smoking even happened.

He did not make a good first impression on her.  Whether that was looks, personality, whatever, is irrelevant, really.  She met him and decided he wasn't what she expected.  That's clear, and I don't think anyone here disputes that.  She said the "I do", they had the reception, they went on the honeymoon.  When they got to the honeymoon, she didn't appear to have completely checked out.  She was concerned about his mention of gambling, but was still making small talk and asking questions.  He had an uphill battle though, as he was going to have to win her over since the initial chemistry wasn't there.  

So far, there is no difference between these two and, say, Ryan and Jackie from Season 2, or Sam and Neil from Season 3.  Guy is hurt that his wife had no initial attraction to him.  Sam mentioned she didn't feel attracted, while Jackie couldn't stop talking about how she wasn't attracted the first few weeks.  In both cases, the guys kept mostly calm and respectful, and after a few weeks of trying, Sam fell for Neil, and Jackie became a horndog for Ryan.

The difference between those two couples begins when Heather doesn't have that attraction, and Derek chooses to go on the attack instead of hang back and be patient like Ryan and Sam.  Then of course there's the smoking issue.  "I" am convinced he smoked pot, but am dropping that since no one even tried to dispute the evidence I gave to support it.  Therefore, "smoking" in general added to the non-attraction.

Ryan and Neil were able to turn an initial non-attraction into both women wanting them, by recognizing the issue and working on it.  I don't see anyone condemning those two women for "checking out" the first week.  Heather was no different - until the smoking and the way he spoke to her became a deal breaker.  The argument is made that he quit smoking after she asked him, but by then, and by her own account, he had smoked every morning since the day after the wedding, and that's all it took.  The way he spoke to her and the signs of jealousy just sealed the deal.  It was on him to try and win her over like the other guys, and he failed to do it.

I firmly believe she's getting the raw deal here, but that's the last I'm going to mention it.  No one is changing their minds, and with them being done, I don't think anything short of a full confession on what really happened behind the scenes will make a difference in how they're viewed the future.

IMO, she saw him and he turned her off.  She seemed to turn off between the wedding and the pictures.  Even if she thought his neck kissing were inappropriate, she could have said, "can you please stop that, it is making me uncomfortable". (It is,of course possible that she did say something, but we did not see it).  My thinking on this is, that if you are cavalier enough to try this as a marriage method, you have to be cavalier enough to overlook other things too.  (Not speaking about the alleged, pot usage.) I have said before that my feeling is that she was turned off almost at the start, and he never had a shot. Then he did little to help himself.

We want the handsome guy and knock out gal to be our partner, but once you get to know someone the inner beauty is what seals the deal.  Here, I believe she was turned off by his looks, and she was never able to get to know him.  I am not saying that it would have turned out differently because just from the very little we have been shown, she seems a little uptight and straight laced and he seems as loose as a goose and carefree. FWIW, not that I would ever find myself in such a position but I am much more like her than him, given my description. Once again, the "experts failed then miserably.

IMO some people have been overly critical of Heather not being attracted to Derek. A person has the right to be attracted or not be attracted to someone regardless of whether they signed up for an experiment. We will never know if that is something she could have gotten past. IMO, that part was Derek's fault, he didn't know how to deal with rejection and went on the attack. IMO, when she said something in the Pastor's office about needing to feel safe, it was her way of saying that she didn't feel safe around Derek. It is just speculation if anything additional happened that was edited out that increased any uneasiness she had. IMO, the editing of these two was so choppy, that it feels like something is being hidden.

Derek's "inner beauty" would take more than six weeks to appreciate.