MAFS - Season 4 - Derek Schwartz - Heather Seidel

Ruqibabe wrote:

Isn't it funny that even though they are all being supportive, the guys are on Derek's side

I know you're talking about the other guys on the show, but I can guarantee it's not ALL guys who support Derek (and not implying you were suggesting that). Heather is far from innocent, but I think she has had a poor reaction to a deal breaker, as opposed to being evil herself, and Derek was mostly to blame for this failing. I don't get the comparisons others have made to Ashley last season. She was a totally different kind of self-centred and I can't place Heather on the same level.

Ruqibabe wrote:

I don't understand how/why people are judging him based on his eyes. Did you see the picture with his mum? Do we assume she is always high too or just genetics?
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJDig7AAZyK/

It's not only the eyes. Yes, he has a similarly shaped set of eyes to his mother. But look at that picture. She seems to be focused on what's around her. Derek appears visually the same way pot smokers I know in my personal life and at work - there's a certain expression that goes with the eyes. They appear somewhat vacant, as in not being aware of their surroundings, and his posture and smile add to it. Hard to put into words, but consistent with the way pot smokers I have known appear when talking to someone.

2observe wrote:
IMO, a grown man being called a child by a woman holds the weight as a man calling a woman old.

I don't agree with that at all.

Calling someone childish is a comment on their behavior, something a person has developed in their life and can change if they want to. Calling her old, joke or not, is a personal shot at something she has absolutely no control over at all. You can work on behavior, but cannot stop getting old. Completely different criticisms.

I'm being critical of Derek, but it's not all him. I agree with Heather in regards to his behavior being childish. Sonia had a problem with something Nick said, and Nick went out of his way to attempt damage control, explaining himself calmly, and then just stepping out for a breather when her anxiety wouldn't let her process what he was saying right away. The next day, they were good. In this case, when Heather brings up an issue (justified or not), Derek's reaction is to get angry, argue loudly, take cheap shots, and in no way apologize for upsetting her, whether it was his fault or not. I don't get why the surfer thing was an issue. I get his rejected feelings, and bitterness that she says she won't touch a stranger then holds the instructor's hand, but the situation is difficult. He wants to touch her in an affectionate, romantic way, and she's uncomfortable. The instructor was holding her hand to help her with balance as the waves crashed against her. Nothing romantic or flirtatious about it. If she was laughing, and acting playful with the instructor, he'd have a point, but what they showed didn't support that. He took it out of context, and made a huge issue out of it.

Regarding Heather, all of this could have been avoided if she had made her dislikes in a partner more clear from the beginning. At the very least, she should have simply told Derek she was uncomfortable with smoking the moment he asked about it instead of making him believe she could accept casual use. I will also agree with Derek that they were getting along in the caves, then she just left without a word. Not cool at all. On the other hand, the interaction afterward is one I think she made a valid point about. Their drama should not prevent the next people from entering the cave. He wanted to have his say then and there, and didn't care about other people. Common courtesy would be to hold it in a minute or two and step out of the way of other people before exploding on her.

In the end, it won't matter. Next week's preview clearly showed the two of them on a couch, as in decision day, with the question of "do you want to stay together"? Spoilers indicate that this is where they go their separate ways, not finishing the season. However, we won't see it next week. The TV Guide entry for them says they don't give their decision until the episode following next week. Boo on the producers for stretching it out an extra week, when it's clear to anyone this isn't going to work for them.

The other two couples had better be very interesting, as it appears in a couple of weeks it'll be a two-couple show.

MAFSMinority I respectfully disagree.  IMO, they both can have the same impact.  Just like Derek can change his behavior, women constantly do things to make them selves look younger.  So to me, it had the same negative impact on both of them.  Not one more than the other.  Jmo

ETA:I also don't think either of them said those things to each other.....just at the camera.

I see a lot of similarity between Heather and Jamie.  In Jamie's case, Doug, had a better temperament to handle her insecurities and a lot of patience, too.  I think she was turned off for some reason right from the start and no matter what Derek did or said, I think she already had a mini wall up. The smoking was the excuse she needed to put up the great wall of China.  Understand that in no way, am I excusing Derek, as he said some very childish and hurtful things, but I really think he was in it for keeps from the start and changed when he saw lack of interest on Heather's part.  I would love to know how they came to be selected, if, as has been reported they were a replacement couple, what went wrong with the original couple.  I have seen theories posted but thus far, I have not seen any verification from anyone.

I think their differences were summed up in who they'd like to invite to dinner if they could invite anyone -

He, a 35-year-old man, would like to meet a dead rapper. (That's an answer I'd expect from a 16-yr-old boy.)  She'd like to have William Wallace over for dinner.  (Not much better but...)

Night and day.  They were never meant to last, IMO.

I don't like Heather, she seems completely unwilling to compromise on anything. I'm not a Derek fan but at least I see him making an effort to communicate with her, to try and work things out. Heather constantly leaving him in the dust on their activities during honeymoon just shows she had already checked out.

2observe wrote:MAFSMinority I respectfully disagree.  IMO, they both can have the same impact.  Just like Derek can change his behavior, women constantly do things to make them selves look younger.  So to me, it had the same negative impact on both of them.  Not one more than the other.  Jmo

ETA:I also don't think either of them said those things to each other.....just at the camera.

I disagree. No one should be expected to modify their appearance via anti-aging products, fillers or surgery because someone decided to insult their appearance. And it doesn't matter if he said it to her or the camera, she knows he said it by now. It is slamming a person behind their back. It is childish behavior.

His behavior has been inappropriate from the beginning.

jupitercornflakes wrote:

2observe wrote:MAFSMinority I respectfully disagree.  IMO, they both can have the same impact.  Just like Derek can change his behavior, women constantly do things to make them selves look younger.  So to me, it had the same negative impact on both of them.  Not one more than the other.  Jmo

ETA:I also don't think either of them said those things to each other.....just at the camera.

I disagree. No one should be expected to modify their appearance via anti-aging products, fillers or surgery because someone decided to insult their appearance. And it doesn't matter if he said it to her or the camera, she knows he said it by now. It is slamming a person behind their back. It is childish behavior.

His behavior has been inappropriate from the beginning.

I am a bit confused. How has his behavior been inappropriate?

Using US magazine's quote is what Derek said: "I'm very well aware of the fact that not everyone's going to be attracted to me," Derek began. "She's not really my type either. Heather's no spring chicken. You know, they say men age like wine, and women age like milk. She's 32 years old. In dog years, she's 180 or whatever, so you do the math, and I don't know, she's not attracted to me." Yes, he gave Heather's age in dog years (though he didn't do the math correctly).

Not having heard Derek (basically) calling her a dog (and offending women everywhere), Heather went to dinner with him for a final supper before heading home. During the meal, she was more sociable than usual … probably because she got very, very drunk. Derek actually saw this as a good thing, noting that it was the friendliest she'd ever been with him."

Heather accused him of being an emotional teenager based on his jealousy with the surf instructor. I think it was also because he got his knickers in a knot because she wanted out of the caves - allegedly because people are waiting. How long do we think they were there. Just getting the camera crew down there and walking through would take a while. It appears if things do not go Derek's way he gets nasty.

I am not a huge fan of Heather's but Derek's nastiness seems to be fueled by her rejecting him.

Ruqibabe wrote:

jupitercornflakes wrote:

2observe wrote:MAFSMinority I respectfully disagree.  IMO, they both can have the same impact.  Just like Derek can change his behavior, women constantly do things to make them selves look younger.  So to me, it had the same negative impact on both of them.  Not one more than the other.  Jmo

ETA:I also don't think either of them said those things to each other.....just at the camera.

I disagree. No one should be expected to modify their appearance via anti-aging products, fillers or surgery because someone decided to insult their appearance. And it doesn't matter if he said it to her or the camera, she knows he said it by now. It is slamming a person behind their back. It is childish behavior.

His behavior has been inappropriate from the beginning.

I am a bit confused. How has his behavior been inappropriate?

When they started the honeymoon Derek seems to have been getting high everyday. It is hard to get to know someone who is high. When she brought it up he got defensive and angry. He yelled at her and insulted her. Then when they were supposed to be getting past that he decided to pick apart everything she did. The surfing instructor held her hand so she wouldn't get knocked down when going into the deeper water and Derek yelled at her for that. He attacked her appearance and her age, even though he is a few years older. They said some nice things to each other in the caves, her responses seemed better thought out. But when it was time to leave he got mad again. He claimed she drank too much, but during the dinner at the end when she was telling him to "Chug it", he said he thought she was only acting flirty because she was tipsy. If she had previously drinking as much as he tried to claim, then would't she have been tipsy on other days. Is she drinking as much as the show tried to make it seem? Or is it another case of manipulative editing?

jupitercornflakes wrote:

Ruqibabe wrote:

jupitercornflakes wrote:

I disagree. No one should be expected to modify their appearance via anti-aging products, fillers or surgery because someone decided to insult their appearance. And it doesn't matter if he said it to her or the camera, she knows he said it by now. It is slamming a person behind their back. It is childish behavior.

His behavior has been inappropriate from the beginning.

I am a bit confused. How has his behavior been inappropriate?

When they started the honeymoon Derek seems to have been getting high everyday. It is hard to get to know someone who is high. When she brought it up he got defensive and angry. He yelled at her and insulted her. Then when they were supposed to be getting past that he decided to pick apart everything she did. The surfing instructor held her hand so she wouldn't get knocked down when going into the deeper water and Derek yelled at her for that. He attacked her appearance and her age, even though he is a few years older. They said some nice things to each other in the caves, her responses seemed better thought out. But when it was time to leave he got mad again. He claimed she drank too much, but during the dinner at the end when she was telling him to "Chug it", he said he thought she was only acting flirty because she was tipsy. If she had previously drinking as much as he tried to claim, then would't she have been tipsy on other days. Is she drinking as much as the show tried to make it seem? Or is it another case of manipulative editing?

I have so much to say.. I don't even know where to start. Before typing my long response, let me post next week's preview maybe we might understand Derek's POV.


http://www.fyi.tv/shows/married-at-first-sight/videos/derek-and-heathers-honeymoon-is-definitely-over

http://www.fyi.tv/shows/married-at-first-sight/videos/pastor-calvin-is-blunt-with-heather-and-derek

jupitercornflakes wrote:

2observe wrote:MAFSMinority I respectfully disagree.  IMO, they both can have the same impact.  Just like Derek can change his behavior, women constantly do things to make them selves look younger.  So to me, it had the same negative impact on both of them.  Not one more than the other.  Jmo

ETA:I also don't think either of them said those things to each other.....just at the camera.

I disagree. No one should be expected to modify their appearance via anti-aging products, fillers or surgery because someone decided to insult their appearance. And it doesn't matter if he said it to her or the camera, she knows he said it by now. It is slamming a person behind their back. It is childish behavior.

His behavior has been inappropriate from the beginning.

I didn't say that people are expected to change their appearance.

2observe wrote:MAFSMinority I respectfully disagree.  IMO, they both can have the same impact.  Just like Derek can change his behavior, women constantly do things to make them selves look younger.  So to me, it had the same negative impact on both of them.  Not one more than the other.  Jmo

Just to clarify, since it seems to have sparked a small discussion, I agree both can hurt and have a negative impact on the target of the nastiness.

What I meant was behavior is a trait a person has the ability to actually change. You can make yourself appear younger, or act younger, but your age cannot go backwards. If you attack someone's behavior, the behavior can be adjusted. If you attack someone's age, it can be disguised but that doesn't change the age. In that regard, the person attacking behavior is calling someone out on the way they choose to conduct themself, while the other is attacking something they have no control over. I would think that makes the one criticizing the aspect that cannot be changed worse on a moral level.

Just two different perspectives on the situation. I respect your view, even if I see it differently.