THE BACHELORETTE - SEASON 12 - JOJO FLETCHER - **NO SPOILERS** - Episode Discussion - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION #2

veg_out wrote:^avie, I agree with you that the minimizing being done by both JoJo and Chris regarding Chase is curious. Either there is no story there or it's intentional. There's some advertising technique--the name escapes me now--that addresses what's being done presently with Chase. Equally, there are almost zero caps of JoJo giving a PI about Chase where she mentions his name and we can see her mouth. His segments are largely her VOs. Even the part on the 2:1 when she was giving him the rose, we didn't see her mouth after she said his name and until she asked him if he'd accept the rose. Either there's no story there or there's a story that was changed after the season ended.

It just seems the complete opposite of the moments between them on screen.

This season is really the Jordan show.

That word you are looking for is "subliminal", I think.
I also think the way JoJo and Chris H. are tip-toeing around Chase is curious. If he was truly in the running for next lead against Luke, there would be much more said in PIs, VOs, & blogs. I'm pretty sure of it.
So, why then is there so much camera focus on Chase? It could be because he is the decoy? The season's antagonist to Jordan's protagonist....OR...
is it the other way around, and we have a hidden F1 on our hands? ?

agentcurls wrote:

veg_out wrote:^avie, I agree with you that the minimizing being done by both JoJo and Chris regarding Chase is curious. Either there is no story there or it's intentional. There's some advertising technique--the name escapes me now--that addresses what's being done presently with Chase. Equally, there are almost zero caps of JoJo giving a PI about Chase where she mentions his name and we can see her mouth. His segments are largely her VOs. Even the part on the 2:1 when she was giving him the rose, we didn't see her mouth after she said his name and until she asked him if he'd accept the rose. Either there's no story there or there's a story that was changed after the season ended.

It just seems the complete opposite of the moments between them on screen.

This season is really the Jordan show.

That word you are looking for is "subliminal", I think.
I also think the way JoJo and Chris H. are tip-toeing around Chase is curious. If he was truly in the running for next lead against Luke, there would be much more said in PIs, VOs, & blogs. I'm pretty sure of it.
So, why then is there so much camera focus on Chase? It could be because he is the decoy? The season's antagonist to Jordan's protagonist....OR...
is it the other way around, and we have a hidden F1 on our hands? ?

It might be that. It has to do with pulling attention towards something by not addressing it.

Chase behind Jordan and Luke has the strongest storyline this season. He has a definite conflict going into the 3rd act of the season as does Jordan. Luke will be back on scene next week with his date.

I'm not sure what the spoiler is, but it very likely could be that she has picked Jordan. With the early leak of his name, the very convenient meeting of his ex by JoJo (how did that happen?), and his brand, it would be believable especially given JoJo's edit when with Jordan. She is Des for Brooks.

As I've mentioned, I think that it's possible for someone else to be F1 IF Jordan is somehow eliminated, or if another relationship--Chajo, RoJo, LuJo--progresses more deeply. HTDs also give a huge window into the final outcome.

There was something left in Chase's edit that prompted me to look more closely at Thailand. I still think that this season is about whether JoJo will overcome her preference for bad boys and pick someone who makes her feel safe and protected. Jordan has to turn a corner essentially in order for her qualms with him to evolve into her feeling safe and protected with him.

I literally just saw what I think is a new preview for next week's episode. Something that interested me in that brief moment was her saying out loud that she worries if he'd be looking at other women, or something to that effect. Did someone DVD-R it? Or is it on the ABC site yet? (I can't access videos from the site as I'm outside the US).

Someone from the spoiled side there was a preview with a little bit of new stuff, too.  I've looked on ABC but it's not up yet.  I'll keep an eye out for it and hope it's posted in the morning somewhere, So Litta or I one can make SCs for both sides of the board to use and sleuth.

Ladybug82 wrote:Someone from the spoiled side there was a preview with a little bit of new stuff, too.  I've looked on ABC but it's not up yet.  I'll keep an eye out for it and hope it's posted in the morning somewhere, So Litta or I one can make SCs for both sides of the board to use and sleuth.

Thanks, bug!

Thank you!

aviej wrote:I just wanted to highlight a couple of things on CH's blog linked above.

First off, we have CH saying that the 2on1 date was a "game-changer". Is it that Chase made several leaps to the front of the pack? CH gave basic descriptions about Wells's date and the GD, but he gave us nothing for the 2on1 date. According to him, "You saw what happened and I don’t need to rehash it all". I wonder why he and JoJo are being so vague in their descriptions of this date or any date with Chase, TBH.

Also he says that "but to say that JoJo was conflicted and to say it was a difficult day is a massive understatement" - this statement, I am not buying one bit! I think that by this stage her relationship with Chase was more advanced than hers with Derek. However, she just wanted to put some pressure on Chase to get him to give her words of affirmation. I'm not buying the conflicted thing.

One other thing that stuck out to me was CH's comment on the Jordan confrontation:
"but once again, JoJo found herself in a position where she had to talk to Jordan about his intentions and Jordan found himself on the defensive again, I have a feeling this may be a recurring theme...". That says a lot to me! It shows that their relationship will be consistently rocky, never smooth sailing. And to me, to be F1, there must be some smooth sailing at some point. Unless, JoJo accepts his proposal, there'a a smooth road for a while and then they enter into choppy waters again. But her and Jordan's relationship thus far is not stable. Instability = insecurity, which to me spells a relationship doomed to end.

I think that Chris H. called the 2-on-1 a "game changer" for several reasons. For one thing, two relatively strong candidates for Jojo's hand were going up against each other. For instance, if Jojo had paired Chase with Alex, absolutely no one would have been surprised if Alex went home. Probably ditto if she had paired Chase with J.T. But sending Derek home could not have been easy for her, even if she was convinced at that point that she wanted Chase in the F3 or F4.

It was also a game-changer in that she was trying to light a fire under Chase (and seemed to be successful in that regard.)

The "recurring theme" comment about Jordan caught my attention as well. It has the air of foreshadowing.

I've got it how do you post a video here

Mbc450 wrote:I've got it  how do you post a video here

Great! You'd create a new post and in the toolbar for the post, click the icon with the old floppy disk sign. It should let you upload a file. Or you can load it to YouTube and just paste the link.

Thanks!

aviej wrote:I just wanted to highlight a couple of things on CH's blog linked above.

First off, we have CH saying that the 2on1 date was a "game-changer". Is it that Chase made several leaps to the front of the pack? CH gave basic descriptions about Wells's date and the GD, but he gave us nothing for the 2on1 date. According to him, "You saw what happened and I don’t need to rehash it all". I wonder why he and JoJo are being so vague in their descriptions of this date or any date with Chase, TBH.

Also he says that "but to say that JoJo was conflicted and to say it was a difficult day is a massive understatement" - this statement, I am not buying one bit! I think that by this stage her relationship with Chase was more advanced than hers with Derek. However, she just wanted to put some pressure on Chase to get him to give her words of affirmation. I'm not buying the conflicted thing.

One other thing that stuck out to me was CH's comment on the Jordan confrontation:
"but once again, JoJo found herself in a position where she had to talk to Jordan about his intentions and Jordan found himself on the defensive again, I have a feeling this may be a recurring theme...". That says a lot to me! It shows that their relationship will be consistently rocky, never smooth sailing. And to me, to be F1, there must be some smooth sailing at some point. Unless, JoJo accepts his proposal, there'a a smooth road for a while and then they enter into choppy waters again. But her and Jordan's relationship thus far is not stable. Instability = insecurity, which to me spells a relationship doomed to end.

Thanks for posting this.

I haven't been following the blogs by CH or JoJo but reading this is quite telling to me if they are similar to K's season. Chase barely getting to be written in-depth about makes me think he is either like F2 (I remember Kaitlyn would literally skip over Nick in her blogs) or he is F3 but a non-entity and not in the running for Bachelor, especially with no intro video and not much to push Chase as very obvious marriage edit (which Ben got last season and Luke is getting this season, imo). I guess Chase could be hidden F1 but JoJo was questioning Chase's feelings for her (which I never got but that was the edit) I am not sure but I think it is between Chase or Jordan, atm for F1. If it is Robby as F1 I will be shocked!

With Jordan, there's a lot I don't understand about him or JoJo for that matter: how the heck did she meet with one of his exes before the show? I call BS on that and think it is just a TPTB idea. But if it is just producer driven then I don't get why especially if Jordan is in F2 (so either F1 or F2?). As F2, there is so much doubt being edited with Jordan it's totally overkill so it makes me think it is a distraction to him possibly being F1?. However, if he is F2 then TPTB want the viewers to know without a shadow of a doubt why he is F2. CH doesn't seem to like him at all based on his blogs, and the recurring theme of instability with Jordan and JoJo (literally it's the same type of questions/theme being asked all the time when they are on screen together, it feels like it is going nowhere) that makes me wonder if he is F1 then it may already be over but announced later on? I say this because I just got off sleuthing a season where there was doubt with lead and pretty much all the contestants, including the F1, and while they did ATFR together it was over within 24 hrs of that. I also think there's a possibility of Jordan being F2 or "technical" F1 (like Brad 1.0) and in a way I would think JoJo if doesn't choose anyone at FRC and maybe the edit for both F2 will be bad then she will be seen as doing the right thing? I know those promos for FRC are usually misleading but JoJo at sunset walking by herself seems strange for a FRC - even a misleading one? It's all very odd to me that Jordan is in F2 with so much doubt. In a way, I think he is getting the Nick 2.0 edit so he may be F2. JoJo seems gaga for him though... 

I dunno... overall so far this season is odd to me as I just don't see any love story here. In a way I don't think any of these guys and JoJo are a match longterm? I am finding that I like some of the contestants and JoJo individually but not as much together? It may be just me but I still don't see *it* between any of them that makes me think "Wow! these two are besotted mutually with one another"... So far I just see a lot of doubt and more doubt...

All this Jordan doubt in the edit convinces me more and more that hes F1. Since the days of the recycled leads, the F1 edit is all about doubt, and the squeaky clean edits go to the next seasons lead possibilities....which from what i can see are going to Chase and Luke. Robbie's edit is a little more cocky, so n the basis of edits, id say ;F1 is either Jordan or Robbie, and Im leaning toward Jordan as being the one she chooses and this doubt stuff is just smoke and mirrors.