THE BACHELORETTE - SEASON 12 - JOJO FLETCHER - **NO SPOILERS** - Episode Discussion - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION #2

Amethyst wrote:It's interesting that Jojo says to one of the men, "...what you did to me was wrong." I'm trying to think what that could be referring to  -- a lie, a lack of sincerity, a quick, inexplicable turnabout of feelings, leading her on, throwing her under the bus in some way...or? That comment is part of a VO, but it really sounds like one continuous voice recording to my ears. So, I do believe she says that to the F2 (who I believe to be Jordan).  The preview scene of Jordan on cell phone saying "I woke up this morning and something just doesn't feel right" I believe is a red herring. I don't know if it is just on my computer (which has crappy playback on those abc videos) but does it look like Jordan is limping as he walks to the jewelers in grey and white shirt? To me it looks like maybe there is a problem with his left leg. If you watch it, et me know what you think. So, my thought that maybe he tries to back out of this whole thing has gone out the window. We see him picking out rings and then holding a ring box, so he shows up at the FRC for sure. So, is it something that her family finds out about Jordan that is the bad deed? I keep coming back to that, because the brothers were so tenacious with sweet Ben. I can only imagine how they might investigate Jordan to find any dirt on him. And maybe they do. As far as him having a turnabout in feelings: We know he shows up for the FRC and quite honestly, picking out those rings he almost sounded like he has convinced himself that he loves her - in other words, bubble love has set in. He's going to go for the proposal. So, is it a lie? Well, if you ask me, up until now I think he is being kind of honest with her - telling her he doesn't know if he is ready to get engaged or ask for father's blessing. Maybe he lies to her family about something. Maybe they find out something about a job he is getting? At MTA Chad mentioned a broadcasting job that he got 6 months ago(?)---that would have been in January? before the show started? So maybe he has this job lined up and then he'll be moving on, but he hasn't told her all the details yet? I do believe he's been leading her on and has a lack of sincerity (or at least the appearance of it) due to his inattentiveness and BL. I just don't know.  

And Mia, after thinking it through, I think you are right -- it is far more likely that Jordan (who has been displaying so many red flags) is the one who disappoints her, especially since he has seemed to be the frontrunner in her affections for some time now. I all honesty, Jojo has to participate in this show's premise - that of taking 2 men to the FRC. I think she liked all of her final 4 guys, but for whatever reason knew it wasn't Luke. Then when it came down to F3, I think that the red flags had been accumulating for Jordan by this point, yet she still has a very comfortable relationship with him and is attracted to him. She knows she wants to keep Robby, so it came down to either eliminating Jordan or Chase.  She wanted to spare Chase from further heartbreak, IMO, and she probably thought that Jordan wasn't going to be heartbroken by the rejection at FRC (as much as Chase would be), since he doesn't seem invested or at the point of seeing her in his life forever. Jordan has been literally telling her that he is not ready to commit.    

Robby's only issue thus far is the ex and I don't give that much credence. I find him believable when he says that it is over. It's over for sure. She freaking slapped him. And now she has dated Chad! Ugh! Who would ever date Chad? After watching him on the show she still dated him? Wow, she sounds like a real loon, IMO. He is never going back to that. And if anybody seems ready and able to commit to Jojo it is Robby. That's all you can ask from these people-to give it a shot in real life. The rest is up to nature and effort.  I also feel that sometimes it takes a major change of direction (i.e. moving far away or pursuing a new opportunity,) to make the final break from a relationship that has been dead in the water for some time. I've done it myself -- when a longtime boyfriend moved to the opposite coast, I realized that I had zero interest in following him. The breakup would have happened at some point, but his move helped to speed things up. And perhaps his willingness to move so far away was his way of saying it was over as well. I think that such may have been the case for Robby, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest as long as he feels in his heart that the former relationship is truly over.I agree. 

Jojo in a number of ways has reminded me of Desiree with her kind heart and sincere nature. Perhaps Jordan is Jojo's "Brooks," the one who initially captures her heart but who cannot commit to her, and perhaps Robby is her "Chris Siegfried," the one who is dependably there for her. If so, then perhaps, like Desiree, Jojo will get her HEA. Yes, Jojo reminds me of a combination of Des and Trista. 

What I also noticed on MTA was that none of the men mentioned Jordan's name at all (except for Chad's comment), and when Chad said that thing about Robby threatening the ex (I'm gonna git ya), many of the men quickly jumped to Robby's defense.

In the back of my head I also cannot help wondering if when Chase returned to speak to Jojo at the RC, if he didn't say his piece/clear the air and then also throw in some personal observations about Jordan. Chase was one of the people who previously made comments in PIs that he hopes that Jojo will see the true nature of Jordan if she looks for it. Perhaps, after he was eliminated, he felt protective over Jojo and wanted to warn her about something to do with Jordan. Just a thought that I have had. I felt that the ways that CH greeted Jordan and Robby were slightly different. With Jordan, it seemed like CH's questions were a set up. With Robby, it seemed like his comments were sincere. But that may just have been my interpretation, and I am obviously biased towards Robby.  

Amethyst wrote:I also have to say that the one HTD that I felt was less than stellar was Jordan's. His family was very nice, but it didn't feel like a 100% fit to me. I got the same vibe. In my opinion, it was at HTDs that Robby clearly pulled ahead of Jordan. I will concede that both Jordan and Robby were frontrunners, but I won't concede that Jordan was the only frontrunner. Every single RC I heard a song in her voice and saw a twinkle in her eye when she called Robby's name. I'd say that as early as week 3 (when he poured his heart out to her in a note-that was never shown on air) he was in a tie for the lead. But, as Robby predicted, HTD were a game changer. Jojo was enthused, of course, because at that point of the game she was all about Jordan.

Both Robby's and Chase's HTDs went very well, Chase's in particular with his mom. Luke has lovely, supportive parents. The energy level was different with Jordan's family, Although they seemed like lovely people, they were very low key. I think Jojo was more her natural self with Chase's mom and Robby's family because they were higher energy and more lively. She is joyous when she is with Robby. I don't see that with Jordan at all.

Luke -- You could see on Jojo's face after the horseback ride (when they were sitting on the hay bales) that she knew she was going to eliminate him. I don't think it was his lack of "I love you's," although that was probably a factor. I think she just wasn't feeling it with him, at least not as strongly as the other men. When she was departing and saying that she hated to say goodbye to him, to me it had a double-edged meaning. She knew that he would be going for good soon. ITA. She said "Good bye Luke"-she felt it was the big good bye coming.

The one thing about Jojo is that she seems to have these moments of clarity, and when she does, she is not afraid to be decisive. She cancels cocktail parties, she sends men home before the rose ceremonies, she makes the eliminations. It sounds like as the process moves forward she will continue to have those moments where all becomes clear to her.

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Mia, I think Jojo takes Jordan to the F2 because at that point, he was still her likely F1. I don't think so. There is a scene(s) in the FD episode where Jojo is wearing a black print top. When speaking about Robby and their FD. Look at her face-she is so emotional and so in love. Then there is a scene(s) when she is wearing (I think) a purple tank top with vases to the right) and I think this is during Jordan's FD. Big contrast. Huge.I think you may be right about the brothers, or her family -- they find something out about Jordan that unsettles Jojo. They way they have edited Jordan, it is like they want to take him down a few pegs, like they are definitely playing up all of his bad moments. As opposed to Robby who they are hilighting as near perfection, IMO. If it was just a normal situation where one guy was truly in love and the other guys still on fence, would they be doing the edit this way? That scenario has happened lots of times before. Why would they insert or leave in the line "What you did to me was wrong" if somebody did not do something? So, even though, in my opinion the huge differnce between how Robby feels totally in love with Jojo and how Jordan would make a good New Year's Eve date is way more than enough reason for her to pick Robby, I tend to think that Jordan really did do something wrong. We shall see. Jordan picks up on this and in turn, it makes him feel less that certain about going through with the proposal, although he does at least go so far as getting the ring.

Robby's ex sounds like a drama queen. What other kind of woman would pursue Chad? He is well rid of her.Exactly!

I noticed that CH greeted Robby with great warmth at the airport. It caught my attention. It can be hard to read CH, since he keeps it professional, but every now and then he lets his liking for someone slip through. You could see he liked Jojo quite a bit during Ben's season. I agree. But, seriously, what's not to like about Robby?