The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - ATFR - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #3

stuckinsc wrote:

Alanna wrote:Oh haha I wasn't offended! Don't worry. You need to try really hard to offend/upset me and it probs still won't work!!

I really thought about it and realized I just don't know/care what the vibe was for either of those couples because I never read it. I was cautious but hopeful and wanted to stay in my own personal happy reality tv love bubble

Wish I could do this. I want to defend the ones I like. Spent a lot of time defending JPG and Nikki. They didn't last but I do think they had a real relationship. Sadly I haven't given a rip about a final couple since them.

I will say Kaitlyn and Shawn are going strong and if Ben and Lauren make it that would be amazing. MF gets darn lucky sometimes, I refuse to believe it is anything casting does, just dumb luck.

The success rate has dramatically increased, both in marriages, and length of relationships, + actual moves and engagements once they started flipping back and forth between the Bach/'Ette, casting normal Jo Blow's for the lead, and people that have already gone through the process once as a contestant. Say what you will about that format, I know a lot of people don't like it. But I think it's improved their success ratio tremendously. Somehow. Maybe for the lead just going through the process once already helps. They know what to expect. They are already better able to be natural on camera, because they've already been there done that once before, so it gives the new relationship a leg up over the earlier days of this show? I don't know... Speculating.  The ONLY marriage from the early days- Trista- was also a contestant the first time around.

JMOAA, In 20 seasons of following this franchise:
1) I have yet to receive a check in the mail from any cast person for "liking", "fanning","following" them.
2) Believe it or not, no new car has mysteriously pulled into my garage topped with a huge red ribbon and signed Chris Manson/Michael Fleiss.
3) None of these people have sent me a card for my birthday, anniversary etc. How dare they? 
4) None of them have sent cyber hugs or good wishes in my time of need. None of them have allayed any personal anxieties when my life gets rough. In fact, an hour or two of escapism is becoming less and less while viewing the show for personal pleasure. 
With that said --I just can't take the show seriously or a personal investment in any of these couples. ANY.
However, I can't say the same for members on the forum. There are many of you that have brightened a moment or two or three at just the right time in my life. For that I thank you.
BTW--I like silver BMW's X3's in case anyone is really in a generous spirit.  However, any color will do.

^^  To quote Cher from Moonstruck, "Snap out of it!"

It's just for fun, why people root for sports or horses or whatever else. I don't think the Yankees are sending anyone a Mercedes either.

sosleepy wrote:The success rate has dramatically increased, both in marriages, and length of relationships, + actual moves and engagements once they started flipping back and forth between the Bach/'Ette, casting normal Jo Blow's for the lead, and people that have already gone through the process once as a contestant. Say what you will about that format, I know a lot of people don't like it. But I think it's improved their success ratio tremendously. Somehow. Maybe for the lead just going through the process once already helps. They know what to expect. They are already better able to be natural on camera, because they've already been there done that once before, so it gives the new relationship a leg up over the earlier days of this show? I don't know... Speculating.  The ONLY marriage from the early days- Trista- was also a contestant the first time around.

IMO one reason for an improved success ratio is because they know more about what a lead is actually looking for because they've worked with the lead - got inside their head if you will - and can pick leads who are more likely to be ready for and / or looking for a long term relationship. All leads are going to say (for the purposes of the show) that they are looking for "love" but not all leads really are - it's just that the show has a good indication of who is and who isn't before they cast them as the lead. If they can wrap a compelling storyline around someone who is looking for love they will go that way.

If they can't wrap a good storyline around a lead they will go another way - the storyline trumps "looking for love" - but if they can wrap a compelling storyline around a lead who is ready to find "love" they will go that way.

And BTW Kasha - I have a silver BMW X3. Unfortunately, the person who rides shotgun in it is my wife ...

I like Ben & Lauren as a couple a lot but haven't been totally invested in a couple for years. It just took a couple of breakups to cure me. I really wish them well and hope for the best.

The other day when I was at the gym I was listening to an ESPN podcast of Dari & Mel when they started to talk about The Bachelor. It turns out that Mel Kiper was a big fan of Jojo's while the other guys weren't so he was all happy about her being the new Bachelorette. Dari asked him what he thought of Ben & Lauren's chance to get & stay married and he said he expected around 30-35 years. Someone was skeptical because of the lack of success stories on the show and Mel named every marriage and the current engagement off the top of his head (someone asked if he was reading it). I'm sure people around me were wondering what I was listening to because I was cracking up. Oh and Mel has the summer off so he's planning on watching Jojo's show. It was just too funny to listen to guys I'm used to hearing talking about athletes and not reality show people.

Alanna wrote:It's just for fun, why people root for sports or horses or whatever else. I don't think the Yankees are sending anyone a Mercedes either.

This is how I view it too. All in good fun. I got extremely invested in 2 past couples that ended up breaking up years ago. I'm now guarded, but that doesn't stop me from rooting for Lauren and Ben and hoping the best for them. If they break up, it affects my life none, I'll just maybe be a tad disappointed for a day or two. Similar to when my favorite football team (Packers, duh) get knocked out of the playoffs or whatever.

albean99 wrote:I like Ben & Lauren as a couple a lot but haven't been totally invested in a couple for years. It just took a couple of breakups to cure me. I really wish them well and hope for the best.

The other day when I was at the gym I was listening to an ESPN podcast of Dari & Mel when they started to talk about The Bachelor. It turns out that Mel Kiper was a big fan of Jojo's while the other guys weren't so he was all happy about her being the new Bachelorette. Dari asked him what he thought of Ben & Lauren's chance to get & stay married and he said he expected around 30-35 years. Someone was skeptical because of the lack of success stories on the show and Mel named every marriage and the current engagement off the top of his head (someone asked if he was reading it). I'm sure people around me were wondering what I was listening to because I was cracking up. Oh and Mel has the summer off so he's planning on watching Jojo's show. It was just too funny to listen to guys I'm used to hearing talking about athletes and not reality show people.

Awe, I like Dari and Mel. We don't have ESPN radio station here so haven't heard them in a while. Have to get the app.

Alanna wrote:It's just for fun, why people root for sports or horses or whatever else. I don't think the Yankees are sending anyone a Mercedes either.

Interesting comment. It's become my opinion that this show has endured as long as it has not because it's about finding love but because people have long been fascinated by conflict. In ancient Greece Homer gained notoriety because he wrote (eloquently) about epic wars. In Roman times people flocked to the Colosseum to watch gladiators fight epic (and usually grisly) battles with lions - and each other - and rooted for their favorite. In medieval times they gathered to root for knights jousting and showing their battle prowess in fights over a "fair maiden". Today we delight in rooting for our favorite football team battling someone else's favorite football team for a Superbowl ring.

The show incorporates conflict - between the villain and the "good guys" in the house - in the lead's internal conflict over who they will pick - and root for their favorite to "win" (which often is more like losing) and we here get drawn in to watch that conflict just as people have been drawn in for thousands of years. It's endured because it's found something that in some way or another has touched all of us (relationships, marriage, break-ups, etc) and wrapped that up into the conflict that has fascinated people for millennia.

albean99 wrote:I like Ben & Lauren as a couple a lot but haven't been totally invested in a couple for years. It just took a couple of breakups to cure me. I really wish them well and hope for the best.

*** snipped quote***

Most of these couples seem solid.....till they are not. It is emotionally draining and a waste of time for me to get into someone else's relationship to the extent that it actually affects me. Been there done that more than I'd like over the past 12 or so years.

I watch to see the "spark" on the show itself and hope that spark carries these couples through way beyond the final twirl.

Saw it immediately with Ben and Lauren in episode 1 itself, same with Kaitlyn and Shawn, Brad and Emily and JaunP and Nikki. That doesn't mean these new couples will not last.
I hope they do but they are now living their real lives and the reality of it is they could end up just like the second set of couples above.
Other couples that took longer for the flames to rise on the show were Des and Chris and Sean and Catherine but they are gold.

So fingers crossed for the new ones and thank goodness for this board and the die hard fans of these couples who update us on their status. You guys rock !

I think the show works because it's a continuing, ever going real life soap opera. Some couples become "super couples," but most of the time it's a train wreck. Every season, especially recently, is remembered for something crazy. Juan Pablo's season, or Ben Flapjack or Jake's season are all incredibly memorable, and not for the lasting couple. And then the show evolves into the next segment by recycling familiar "characters," whether for the next 'ette or Bach season, or for BIP. And that, I think, is the appeal. It's like Days of Our Lives, but with real people.

Regardless, yes- the success ratio was DISMALL in early days, but like I said, if both Kaitlyn/Shawn and BenLo make it (I know, who knows, but it's certainly possible), they are batting 500 over the last 10 seasons, and that's kind of amazing. And that doesn't even count the "spin off" couples Janner and Blake/Holly, and the IRL couples like Chris and Peyton. I don't know... I don't think their success rate is as bad as their reputation leads you to believe.

sosleepy wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Alanna wrote:Oh haha I wasn't offended! Don't worry. You need to try really hard to offend/upset me and it probs still won't work!!

I really thought about it and realized I just don't know/care what the vibe was for either of those couples because I never read it. I was cautious but hopeful and wanted to stay in my own personal happy reality tv love bubble

Wish I could do this. I want to defend the ones I like. Spent a lot of time defending JPG and Nikki. They didn't last but I do think they had a real relationship. Sadly I haven't given a rip about a final couple since them.

I will say Kaitlyn and Shawn are going strong and if Ben and Lauren make it that would be amazing. MF gets darn lucky sometimes, I refuse to believe it is anything casting does, just dumb luck.

The success rate has dramatically increased, both in marriages, and length of relationships, + actual moves and engagements once they started flipping back and forth between the Bach/'Ette, casting normal Jo Blow's for the lead, and people that have already gone through the process once as a contestant. Say what you will about that format, I know a lot of people don't like it. But I think it's improved their success ratio tremendously. Somehow. Maybe for the lead just going through the process once already helps. They know what to expect. They are already better able to be natural on camera, because they've already been there done that once before, so it gives the new relationship a leg up over the earlier days of this show? I don't know... Speculating.  The ONLY marriage from the early days- Trista- was also a contestant the first time around.

I agree.  All the media jokes about how the couples never last seem outdated to me.  I go in thinking 50-50 chance for any of them now.  I kind of consider the show split into 2 eras.  The old era seems mostly forgotten by TPTB in many ways, is hardly referenced and so many newer fans probably know nothing about those early seasons.  The recycling, it really works, IMO.  Plus now you can keep up with your favs on social media and they might be back in the summer or as a returnee even if not picked as next lead.  It's such a great business model for ratings success, IMO and it's also lead to a lot more success in the final couples. I tend to think it's because usually they are picking leads that the audience really likes who are regular type people, who of course probably have fame and money ambitions out of this, but also may actually be glad if they do meet someone great that they might never get a shot with in real life.  Not all of them, but many JMO.

Anyway, if Deanna is the first of the new era of recycling leads and having both Bachelor and Bachelorette seasons then by my count there have been  4 marriages (including Jason and Molly) and 3 couples who moved in together and gave it a real life try for a year or so (I count those as successes personally).  Then you have about the same number of train-wrecks or no go's. All considered with the crazy situation this show is, I think that's pretty good.  I find there are far more real love connections now, IMO, even if the Bachelorettes are still waayyy better at it than the guys.  Maybe Ben can help tip the scale on that stat.

ETA - sosleepy just saw your batting .500 comment, which I kind of borrowed without quoting you - so to your great post too.