The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - ATFR - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #3

Lucas15 wrote:

SarahD wrote:snip

We have not seen what Ben told her but I bet there's more to the story than we would ever know because if not, why would Lauren put up with that?

snip

IMO the truth that Ben had to tell to Lauren was things that he could not say before the FRC - which would have been filmed and used as part of the show. Once they were done filming he could say things that he never could have said during filming. IMO that's why he waited.

Yes. Ben is no dummy. He knew tptb had been manipulating everyone and once those two ILY's came out, it would be a free-for-all in the editing room. He knew what he would have to explain and that Lauren might be mad/sad/react unexpectedly. If he explained before the proposal, tptb still might have a chance to mess with that. He was cognisant that the editors might end up with even more to work with and that could put more pressure on their new relationship. I think Ben was relatively sincere in his desire to come out of the show with someone and once he met Lauren, he took the advice he received from other alums to heart and used that, along with his own knowledge of the manipulative nature of the show, to protect the fledgling relationship. Seems to be working so far, so good for him.

Sprite wrote:Yes. Ben is no dummy. He knew tptb had been manipulating everyone and once those two ILY's came out, it would be a free-for-all in the editing room. He knew what he would have to explain and that Lauren might be mad/sad/react unexpectedly. If he explained before the proposal, tptb still might have a chance to mess with that. He was cognizant that the editors might end up with even more to work with and that could put more pressure on their new relationship. I think Ben was relatively sincere in his desire to come out of the show with someone and once he met Lauren, he took the advice he received from other alums to heart and used that, along with his own knowledge of the manipulative nature of the show, to protect the fledgling relationship. Seems to be working so far, so good for him.

I think he was sincere also. From all we know of his "history", he knew what he wanted love to feel like (not with Kaitlyn - with his ex GF from before the show). Unfortunately for him (and fortunately for Lauren) that was one-sided. All his close friends (that were part of the "pact" to move to Denver together) have since either gotten engaged or married and he was the last man out and he wanted to be part of that as well. IIRC the producers have been reported (by other past leads) as saying "the process works if you let it" (which to me is a euphemism for "If you let us manipulate you and play ball so we can get a good TV show, good things can happen for you.") I think he learned on Kaitlyn's season that it was possible to find someone on the show and was willing to give it a shot; if it worked for him - great - if it didn't then he was still young and could try again in a more conventional way.

IMO Ben was aware that before the FRC the producers controlled Lauren and his access to Lauren and anything that he said or tried to explain to her then would have been controlled and constrained to conform to the show storyline, and the producers are not in any way constrained by the truth. They could have and IMO would have lied to Lauren in a very convincing way and could have cost Ben the thing he most wanted from the show experience.
JMHO

Sprite and Lucas,

With that being said, Ben needs to give Lauren a massive thank you and get on his knees again and say he's a lucky man. This girl never waver in her feelings for him and trusted him as he asked. To me, that's a lot of faith and confidence. 

During his little itm when he said that it was too good to be true, things were too perfect, they haven't been tested, even his parents saw it... how "perfect" Lauren is. (I had to wonder where he was going with those lines and then it hit me that the last two dates were so pro JOJo IMO to sway the audience and to possibly set her up for bachelorette).

During ATFR, when Ben's dad was asked about the couple, he said look at them, they're perfect. It was meant to be. I had to laugh. 
Ben was a bit disconnected but from the show. When Chris was egging him on about holding him to his marriage statement, Ben said something to the effect of you just keep at it, constant surprise or something like that. 
I thought he wanted to celebrate Lauren (his show her off)and to let everyone know the reason he chose her. To me it was clear. She compliments him and makes him better. 

In the long run of things coming full circle, we saw from meet and greet Ben telling Lauren that she was making it hard for him and IMO moving towards the finale, she made it easy.

^
This is just my suspicion, but I think CH had offered Ben a spot on JoJo's season if he wanted it, and to dump Lauren, 'jokingly', and then offered to marry Ben and Lauren. Jmo. Because CH hadn't made any surprise offers for him at all. IMO he was so over the show trying to make another OMG moment of him and Lauren. Jmo.

Fingersandtoes wrote:IMO he was so over the show trying to make another OMG moment of him and Lauren. Jmo.

I think so as well. I think the whole "marriage" gambit for the ATFR was just a big tease to get viewers to stay tuned in and watch instead of turning to another channel after the finale aired; I did note that they started the tease during the first two hours of the finale (as I thought they would) which would make sense if that was their intent.

The beginning of this tease was IMO not the dialog on the WTA show where Ben said he would marry his fiance tomorrow if he could - it actually went back to something Lauren said (in an ITM or VO IIRC) that she "would marry Ben tomorrow" and I think they just went from there. At the end of the day I think they both wanted to do things "real" instead of staying in the "reality TV" realm.
JMHO

NO DOUBT TPTB would have LOVED either (unlikely) scenario:

1. Ben dumps Lauren and goes on JoJo's show. Not gonna happen.
2. Ben and Lauren are crazy enough to get married on ATFR. Also extremely unlikely.

TPTB will have to settle for a televised wedding next winter, most likely.

sosleepy wrote:NO DOUBT TPTB would have LOVED either (unlikely) scenario:

1. Ben dumps Lauren and goes on JoJo's show. Not gonna happen.
2. Ben and Lauren are crazy enough to get married on ATFR. Also extremely unlikely.

TPTB will have to settle for a televised wedding next winter, most likely.

Maybe this winter ? I think that's very likely too.

Fingersandtoes wrote:^
This is just my suspicion, but I think CH had offered Ben a spot on JoJo's season if he wanted it, and to dump Lauren, 'jokingly', and then offered to marry Ben and Lauren. Jmo. Because CH hadn't made any surprise offers for him at all. IMO he was so over the show trying to make another OMG moment of him and Lauren. Jmo.

The surprise offer was for Ben & Lauren to be married by Ben's hometown pastor live on the ATFR show. 

Didn't Ben say they'd like to get married in 2016 or early 2017? I picture them having a Jan. or Feb. wedding on TV like SeanCat or Janner.

Beach Lover wrote:Didn't Ben say they'd like to get married in 2016 or early 2017?  I picture them having a Jan. or Feb. wedding on TV like SeanCat or Janner.

IIRC they've said summer 2016, fall or late 2016, and early 2017. Personally I suspect a relatively brief dance with ABC over timing but if ABC doesn't give them dates they want they will do what they want anyway.

IMO Ben has played ball with the show (some no doubt feel he's overplayed it) but I think he just played the cards he was dealt and everyone gave a little but got what they really wanted. Lauren held off telling Ben she was in love with him until it made the most sense to show that (evening of the FD); Ben got to be able to say it back (and IMO not saying it back was never an option for Ben - he'd chased her all through filming after all) which gave them one of the most compelling scenes ever (JMHO); the show got the nose-to-nose surprise ending (because Ben also said it to JoJo); and JoJo got to be the next Bachlorette. That seems to me to have been a win-win-win-win for everyone.

I think a little payback is in order and I just have a hunch that ABC wants this wedding on TV - and again the couple will give a little and get what they do want in terms of a wedding - and it will be a blow-out affair.
JMHO

I hope they forgo the circus and do it on their own.

I do kinda get the vibe that they might be a little hesitant to do a TV wedding, but I'll be happy either way if it ends with them getting hitched!