The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - ATFR - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #3

allykat wrote:I agree that it would have been nice if he'd told Lauren, but I think the reason he didn't was because he knew he was picking her in the end (even if subconsciously). He did a pretty terrible job of pulling away from JoJo, but that was his way of 'keeping her in the loop' and giving her some doubt going into FRC. I don't think he would have taken the chance of sending Lauren running, especially on camera (or on a bathroom floor) when he wouldn't have the chance to tell her the full story. If I had to guess, when he did fess up in private it was probably less of a 'conversation' and more of a marathon confession of everything.

I agree. Good post. Most of the couples have trouble navigating post show. All of the lucky couples who have stayed together past the year mark did so because they fell deeper in love. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have said I believe it is a good thing Lauren is moving to Denver. I hope they are one of the lucky couples that fall deeper in love and celebrate their one year anniversary next November.

I'm curious how some feel things would have turned out if Jojo didn't take Ben in the bathroom for a "private " convo? Would he still have disclosed things to her on the couch? Would they have had that discussion about Ben's love for Lauren?

I know the outcome would have still been Lauren but, we're talking about full disclosure with mic/camera vs none.

I agree with the comparisons to Chris and Des. Even during the media circus post-show, Chris handled innumerable questions about Brooks.

Here's the thing about pasts: they must be confronted, which is exactly what Ben and Lauren and Jo did this week. Anything buried, any lingering feelings, any doubts were hopefully pulled out into the light and talked through. It seems like Ben does that very well.

Now, they can all close the door and move forward with their respective lives. Ben and Lauren's relationship essentially started for real on Monday night. Lauren is now his counselor, confidant, person who will sift and sort and sit with him when life's beautiful and when it's confusing. This experience will either pull them closer or push them apart. From Monday until today, I have seen more of a settling in between them.

Jo is now in her "real" life. She's finding the man who won't run or leave or choose someone else over her. She hopefully doesn't have to compete (though, God knows, the show will likely cast someone who is a cheater just to force her to heal).

In the best of circumstances, all parties are able to reflect back on this time as something insane but good. I hope that Lauren and Ben keep putting their relationship first; they'll make it that way. And, we all know that I adore Jo and want her to get her happy ending.

IMO if I was the F1, I wouldn't care if he told the F2, told me, didn't tell the F2 or didn't tell me that he was in love with the final 2. He chose me, that's good enough.

2observe wrote:My issue with Ben is him not telling Lauren about him telling Jojo he loved her before he asked her to marry him.  To me, it seems that he was more truthful to Jojo by telling her that he also loved Lauren.  I just think that it would have been more honest if Ben had given Lauren a chance to consider how she felt about his feelings for Jojo before she accepted his ring. jmo

It's not like he hid the possibility from Lauren - she suspected (and worried) that he might love JoJo too - we all saw that in Lauren's ITMs. It's not like he hid that possibility from JoJo either - she asked - and he was honest and answered. IMO had Lauren asked also he would have been equally honest - but the difference is that Lauren trusted what she and Ben had and was willing to gamble the potential for heartbreak on that trust - and JoJo didn't.

By waiting Ben gained several things. He had proposed and committed to Lauren and he did so with no pressure or urging from Lauren - and she knew that. If she was not able to understand what had happened then she would not have been the woman for Ben; among many other things, love is about forgiveness.

veg_out wrote:Jo is now in her "real" life. She's finding the man who won't run or leave or choose someone else over her. She hopefully doesn't have to compete (though, God knows, the show will likely cast someone who is a cheater just to force her to heal).

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed those same "audition" comments from the final episode. My list was:

I feel like I always have to compete with other people.
I'm so tired of competing.
I want someone to love me the way I love them.
I just want the kind of love that I can count on.
So when somebody says they love me they really mean it and that they're not going anywhere.

Curious, when did she have to compete with other people? How many out there have b/f's and have to constantly compete with other people. I don't get that.

Since she hinted on the show several times that her ex Chad was unfaithful to her, seemingly more than once, (he hasn't denied it anywhere either) then she could have certainly felt like she wasn't enough for him in their relationship, hence feeling like she had to compete with other women since her ex would wander on her.

She then went on this show where she had to compete against 24 other women. It's two different instances of feeling like you have to compete with other women or outside forces within a relationship and I feel like both of them are valid.

I just think it's crazy to sign up on a show where the lead dates multiple other people after leaving another relationship where other people were involved too. Especially if you're tired of competing for men to love you. That's why I think JoJo's 'I'm tired of competing' was straight up lead line for her own season of 20+ men competing for her.

Ben's 'system' was interesting IMO, I don't know how other leads have done it before. Ben each week looked for the person he saw a future with the least, and IMO Lauren never was even considered on that list.

I think it was in that sadly interrupted today periscope, where they were asked if the lead could request extra time with someone, and Ben said he could but that leads to extra pressure or something. I'm going to assume from the other ladies AND TPBP.
ETA: Here's the periscope https://youtu.be/XP-NikEjjko
He said it leads to hurting otger girls and them questioning what are they even doing there. I bet the Mexico stroll took it's toll.

I love these bts tidbits we get that she'd so much light on the whole show.

Jmo again.

GuardianAngel wrote:Curious, when did she have to compete with other people? How many out there have b/f's and have to constantly compete with other people. I don't get that.

I think both Ash and F&T (posts above) make plausible points about why JoJo might have felt she has had to compete, but the real reason I put that line in my "list" of "Audition lines" is because of how the show took Ben's "I feel like I'm unlovable" line from Kaitlyn's season and turned it into a theme that wove its way in and out of his own season pretty much from beginning to end, culminating in that "obstacle" being resolved at the end when he found someone to love him.

I could easily see how TPTB could do the same with this line for JoJo's season and it doesn't really matter if it's "real" - it's something to build a storyline on to give the show a theme. I could so imagine CH saying something like:

"Last season on The Bachelor we saw JoJo compete for Ben's heart and we saw her leave with her own heart broken. This season on The Bachelorette JoJo will be the one breaking hearts as 24 handsome and oh so eligible bachelors compete for her love. Will she find that special someone who will really mean it when they say they love her? Tune in with me and watch her dramatic journey to find out."

JMHO

Oh - and by the way Mr. Fleiss - I'm really not interested in that job offer in Story Production but thanks anyway; I'd rather stay here and occasionally amuse or enlighten my friends here at BBF.

2observe wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:^
IMO it has helped that he was open and honest from the start, with Lauren. It was a risk he took, instead of blaming it on production and bla bla. He owned it all, still does. And Lauren being so level headed has made it easier for him. So now he can still own it, and there are no surprises around the corner. Jmo.

ETA, I just don't see anything that hints that he misses being the crntre of attention. He seems to appreciate hear Lauren do a lot of the talking, he turned down the prospect of DWTS. He seems more than eager to get Lauren and himself settled in. Denver and away from the attention.

My issue with Ben is him not telling Lauren about him telling Jojo he loved her before he asked her to marry him.  To me, it seems that he was more truthful to Jojo by telling her that he also loved Lauren.  I just think that it would have been more honest if Ben had given Lauren a chance to consider how she felt about his feelings for Jojo before she accepted his ring. jmo

He didn't really tell Jojo out of his own volition to be "truthful" to Jojo. Jojo coaxed it out of him because she wanted validation.  Lauren never questioned what Ben feels for her.

I think Ben telling Lauren in private was the right thing to do. He had so much respect for Lauren and was considering what Lauren would feel. Lauren said it stung! Of course it did. Ben chose not to tell her before or right after the proposal. He told her a full day after. Was that not being truthful?  No, IMO it's not. His main concern was how Lauren would feel. He told her in private the day after the proposal because he didn't want to taint the day of the proposal. He wanted that to be a happy occasion for Lauren to remember but their real lives began after that and that's when he chose to lay it all out. He chose to do that in private for a reason. It isn't because he's only truthful to Jojo. All my opinion.

Lucas15 wrote:

veg_out wrote:Jo is now in her "real" life. She's finding the man who won't run or leave or choose someone else over her. She hopefully doesn't have to compete (though, God knows, the show will likely cast someone who is a cheater just to force her to heal).

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed those same "audition" comments from the final episode. My list was:

I feel like I always have to compete with other people.
I'm so tired of competing.
I want someone to love me the way I love them.
I just want the kind of love that I can count on.
So when somebody says they love me they really mean it and that they're not going anywhere.

Those lines though seem full of insecurities. I think she should have done what Lace did which is to work on her own and heal herself rather than getting into an unnatural way of dating in the hopes of getting a proposal. If her insecurities are deep seated, I'm going to be so curious if she will find healing just because 25+ men will be competing for her.