The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

Wow, lots of hatred towards Lauren B. I think it will take time for Ben and LB to fade into the background because they will have to do a lot of press like any Bachelor couple.

I think that even with this two ILY, they have a chance as a couple given the similarities in family, core values and Christian Faith. But I'll reserve my POV when I see them as a couple at the ATFR. If Lauren will be acting like Emily was to Brad, then I'd say no chance but if they're more like Chris and Des then there could be a good chance for these two. I think they both believe they were meant to meet each other.

I think they're both very real and down to earth people which will definitely help with their relationship

This has been my favorite season until the 2 ILY's. I did not like Kaitlyn's season. I think this season showed real girls and characters. Ben is real and honest. Kaitlyn's season was toward the trashy side. I lost interest in her season. Also the ratings have been just fine this season, so for the franchise it has been a good too. Ben and Lauren remind me of Des and Chris, with a similar vibe to their relationship.

I don't think there really any hates toward Lauren B, IMO, some people, like myself, just don't find her attractive, interesting, whatsoever.

Hate is too strong a word and I would not waste my brain cell hating someone I could care any less.

ABout the preview...what do people make of the bathroom scene? I could take it either way. I think Jojo being too needy could backfire ("Give me something"), and Lauren giving Ben space (if that's true) to make his decision bodes well for her. The wipe away tear...golly, I melted. Ben said in interviews that he told his betrothed that he told the F2 he loved her (but during a conversation after they got engaged). Ben told Jojo that he loved Lauren on LCD. Hmmm....another clue?

tennischick80 wrote:ABout the preview...what do people make of the bathroom scene? I could take it either way. I think Jojo being too needy could backfire ("Give me something"), and Lauren giving Ben space (if that's true) to make his decision bodes well for her. The wipe away tear...golly, I melted. Ben said in interviews that he told his betrothed that he told the F2 he loved her (but during a conversation after they got engaged). Ben told Jojo that he loved Lauren on LCD. Hmmm....another clue?

This is the first time i read this, thanks.

I have thought about that too

nannymargie wrote:Lucas can't wait to see the video and transcripts you come up with.  Always love your insights.

With that encouragement, I'll try not to disappoint.

Firstly, my sources:
Videos:
Video 1 - this is part one of JoJo's FD, where Ben first tells her he loves her at the waterfall.
Video 2 - this is part 2 of JoJo's FD where she and Ben talk over dinner
Body language references:
Detecting lies
Signs of deception
State of frustration
Micro expressions - aspects of of body language

First of all let's tackle signs of lying. The detecting lies article talks about how liars give them selves away:

Liars - ...become aroused and speed up therefore they ...talk faster ...speak less clearly.
Liars - ...do not want to answer questions. therefore they ...cover the mouth.

Ben - you fast talker you ...
Since IMO Ben is basically an honest straight shooting kind of guy I would expect lying doesn't come easy and when he's doing it he finds it difficult and rushes through the lie because he's aroused. Normally, Ben talks in a rather slow and even cadence, so when he doesn't, it tends to stand out. In Video 1 we heard Ben say "JoJo I love you too" - but he says it so fast the words run together - like he can't wait to get done with that phrase. This makes it look to me as a lie or at least some sort of deception or sim-representation. But this first ILY is not the only time Ben rushes his words to the point of almost slurring them together. In an ITM from Video 2 Ben says "I don't know how you can be in love with two women. But I am" and the words "But I am" just run together. So I feel this also is deceptive - he says it - but doesn't really believe it - on some level. Then in the same video, JoJo says "I do love you - a lot" and Ben replies "I do too" - again much faster than his normal speech cadence. Ben says "It doesn't scare me to tell you that - because I know how I feel" and he just rushes the words "I know how I feel" - again running words into other words. In Video 2 Ben says to JoJo (about her HTD) "I've been uneasy all week because I felt like I walked away from your home town date without knowing your brothers any better and they didn't know me any better" and he says that so fast it sounds like a 33RPM phonograph record (anyone besides me know what they were?) played back at 45RPM - that whole sentence just runs together and he can't get the words out of his mouth fast enough. All of these things lead me to believe that there is deception on some level and Ben's reaction to it is to talk fast and get in over and done with. It's less that I don't believe him and more that I don't believe he believes what he's saying.

Ben - why are you frustrated?
The State of frustration link suggests "In body language, when people become frustrated they take the gesture shown in the picture below which is the body language state of frustration. Scratching the back of your head or rubbing your neck from behind, as in the picture below, is a clear sign of frustration according to body language." The following video clip shows what Ben does in Video 2 starting at :18 through :41 - a total of 23 seconds. The very last thing we see him do is cover his mouth (it occurs at 1:02 in Video 2) - one of the signs of deception. You'll notice that there is no audio - for two reasons. Audio is distracting and misleading when you look at body language - you tend to see what you hear instead of seeing what there is to be seen. And in this case, the audio is actually from an ITM that's edited in and out, so Ben is not reacting to that ITM - he's reacting to JoJo and their conversation at the time but we don't hear that. But we CAN see that while Ben is rubbing the back of his neck, JoJo is talking continually - watch as she moves her head in her typical animated way of expressing herself - we simply don't know what she's saying.



The persistent - almost in some cases violent running of the back of his neck suggests Ben is frustrated during this scene with JoJo. Anyone can guess why - including  me - but IMO it's just important to consider that he's frustrated and that makes this scene like not what it seems to be.

And what is a micro-expression?
The link describes them the following way:

Micro expressions are very brief facial expressions, lasting only a fraction of a second. They occur when a person either deliberately or unconsciously conceals a feeling. Seven emotions have universal signals: anger, fear, sadness, disgust, contempt, surprise and happiness.

One of the most famous examples of a micro expression was when Arnold Schwarzenegger apologized for having an affair with a servant woman (and fathering a child) - cheating on his then wife Maria Shriver. He was very contrite in his words except that for a split second his face showed anger - instead of being contrite and sorry he was angry that he got caught and had to apologize in the first place. That put a completely different spin on his (fake) apology.

Sometimes I find it hard to tell the difference between anger, disgust and contempt as they all might look similar; It's easier to see happiness, surprise, sadness or fear as separate. I tend to cheat here and just group anger, disgust and contempt into a negative category and sometimes it's only important to know they are all "negative" emotions. At 1:37 in Video 2 we see Ben make a micro expression. At this point in the conversation, Ben and JoJo are talking about her brothers and the HTD and what they said to Ben and I would characterize the expression as a negative one - either anger, disgust or contempt - and to me it says that the HTD with JoJo left a much more negative set of emotions in Ben's mind and even though it's been talked about - that negativity might well linger for Ben.

I've tried to capture it to make it easier to see but I don't think I did a very good job at it - but this was the best I could come up with:


What you should be looking for is a frame or two of the original clip where you can see muscles in Ben's face - just below his cheekbones - contract and bulge a bit. I looped this clip thought several repeats of the expression because otherwise it's so brief you are likely to miss it.

So as I said when I posted upthread all these things have made me see JoJo's FD in a different light and IMO things are not exactly the way the show wanted them to appear. Ben's body language gave his real feelings away.

Disclaimer - all the above is nothing more than my own opinion.

peggy0221 wrote:I don't think there really any hates toward Lauren B, IMO, some people, like myself, just don't find her attractive, interesting, whatsoever.

Hate is too strong a word and I would not waste my brain cell hating someone I could care any less.

@Lucas15, what is your take on JoJo always glancing off to her left during the dinner conversation? I noticed that last week during the show and it just didn't seem right to me.

She could be looking at one of the producers prompting her or at cue cards.

havadrpepper wrote:@Lucas15, what is your take on JoJo always glancing off to her left during the dinner conversation? I noticed that last week during the show and it just didn't seem right to me.

Generally when someone fails to make eye contact when they are talking it's a sign of some level of deceit or lying. A lot depends on what their eyes are doing (if you can see them) - looking up with your eyes indicates you're accessing things you remember - either things you saw or things you heard.

In general a truthful person will keep good eye contact but not a fixed stare - which could indicate they are actually lying and trying to cover the lie by over compensating and never looking away. The truthful person might look away to collect their thoughts and then regain eye contact while they express them - maintaining good eye contact when they are saying something that is true and then glancing away to collect more thoughts.

JoJo did seem to look away quite a number of times but in general it seems (to me anyway) that it's pretty normal for her. As is shaking her head left and right - most of the time. Some people (Ben for example is pretty consistent in this) will nod their head "yes" when they make a true statement and shake their head "no" when they're lying. JoJo more or less always shakes her head "no" - which slightly unnerves me.

Or simply - as Kasha suggests, she's looking at a cue card - or looking at a producer for some direction.