The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

Miyala wrote:I don't think she was referring to sex with that. For me she just points to the importance to look at inner beauty instead of our looks. It doesn't have to have anything to do with the show IMO, it could though have to do with all the criticism that comes with the show… (about her families look etc)

100% agree. Actually its weird right before she posted this on IG on the previous picture there was a whole bunch of hateful comments and one in particular called her a skeleton etc and tagged jojo and ben so it warmed my heart when she posted this saying and im glad jojo commented and called her beautiful

She does read the comments and people do not have filters

2observe wrote:

Jolena wrote:

2observe wrote:I keep reading posts which claims that Ben HAD to tell Jojo he loved her because we saw him tell Lauren.  But, since we know that Ben told Jojo he loved her, and since she was first, didn't he HAVE to tell Lauren too???

Just because they showed it on tv first dosen't mean the date was actually first. jmo

Jojo's date came before Lauren's in actual time.

I believe that because the F1 date is usually the last date. I think in a way it's an unsaid message to the F1 that anything that happened in prior fantasy suites was just that. In the past.( even if it's just a few days in the past , still in the past) and she's the last one and one he will move forward with. Kind of crazy but it's bachelor world.

Can someone help me, for some reason I have it in my head that Ben said his F1 isn't watching the show. Am I right or just dreaming? TYIA

Cinn3 wrote:

Miyala wrote:I don't think she was referring to sex with that. For me she just points to the importance to look at inner beauty instead of our looks. It doesn't have to have anything to do with the show IMO, it could though have to do with all the criticism that comes with the show… (about her families look etc)

100% agree. Actually its weird right before she posted this on IG on the previous picture there was a whole bunch of hateful comments and one in particular called her a skeleton etc and tagged jojo and ben so it warmed my heart when she posted this saying and im glad jojo commented and called  her beautiful

She does read the comments and people do not have filters

Oh didn't know any of that. Makes sense.

100% agree on bolded.

hdman wrote:Can someone help me, for some reason I have it in my head that Ben said his F1 isn't watching the show.  Am I right or just dreaming?  TYIA

Ben said in some interview that his fiancé is watching some of the show, but not all of it. I'm guessing she watched in the beginning, then as the show progressed just her parts?

Jolena wrote:snipped

I believe that because the F1 date is usually the last date. I think in a way it's an unsaid message to the F1 that anything that happened in prior fantasy suites was just that. In the past.( even if it's just a few days in the past , still in the past) and she's the last one and one he will move forward with. Kind of crazy but it's bachelor world.

That's exactly right IMO. MF and company rub their hands in glee waiting for the outcome. If we look back at every season prior, there was usually some sort of drama with the F2. IA that's why it's done in that order.

havadrpepper wrote:

sosleepy wrote:ETA: other ways they can get Ben to say ILY to both: whisper doubts about his front runner (Lauren). Make him heavily question how she feels about him. At the same time, keep whispering to give JoJo another look. Keep talking her up, telling him how in love she is with him. That kind of manipulation would make anyone take a pause with the person they really want and allow them to become more emotionally available to the second.

BINGO!

IMO, this is exactly what happened.  The doubts about Lauren were being pushed on him so he was encouraged to look hard at the other girls, especially JoJo.  Had Lauren's FD actually been first, it would have been game over.  No ILY to JoJo at all!  The producers knew this and did everything in their power to change this up.  I have no doubt they encouraged JoJo to say ILY (although IMO she didn't mean it) to get just that response from Ben.  

These people are kept in the "bubble" for a reason. It makes them more compliant. They want to please the producers so will do whatever is asked or suggested to them.

Both posts I think do a good job of capturing some of the ways that manipulation works - but not all of them. IMO that list should also include bribery (offering $$ to do something), threats (we'll ruin your reputation; we'll tell Lauren things that will make her leave and you'll lose her) and lies (we need this because we want her to be the next bacheloretts and we need the drama - you'd be doing her a big favor -  she knows you don't really love her). Ben could easily negate things if he had a chance to have the FD with Lauren before JoJo but he didn't and that's how this manipulation could work - and why they wouldn't let him have that date.

IMO from some of the things I've seen in Ben on his FD with JoJo, the romantic scenes with JoJo look to me to be something less than romantic; I'm working on some videos and transcriptions of what I am seeing. But IMO Ben was under a lot of stress, was frustrated, lying in several specifics, and either angry, disgusted or contemptuous about something or things when he was with JoJo on that date. The types of manipulation we're talking about could well explain why Ben was experiencing those emotions.

Lucas15 wrote:

havadrpepper wrote:

sosleepy wrote:ETA: other ways they can get Ben to say ILY to both: whisper doubts about his front runner (Lauren). Make him heavily question how she feels about him. At the same time, keep whispering to give JoJo another look. Keep talking her up, telling him how in love she is with him. That kind of manipulation would make anyone take a pause with the person they really want and allow them to become more emotionally available to the second.

BINGO!

IMO, this is exactly what happened.  The doubts about Lauren were being pushed on him so he was encouraged to look hard at the other girls, especially JoJo.  Had Lauren's FD actually been first, it would have been game over.  No ILY to JoJo at all!  The producers knew this and did everything in their power to change this up.  I have no doubt they encouraged JoJo to say ILY (although IMO she didn't mean it) to get just that response from Ben.  

These people are kept in the "bubble" for a reason. It makes them more compliant. They want to please the producers so will do whatever is asked or suggested to them.

Both posts I think do a good job of capturing some of the ways that manipulation works - but not all of them. IMO that list should also include bribery (offering $$ to do something), threats (we'll ruin your reputation; we'll tell Lauren things that will make her leave and you'll lose her) and lies (we need this because we want her to be the next bacheloretts and we need the drama - you'd be doing her a big favor -  she knows you don't really love her). Ben could easily negate things if he had a chance to have the FD with Lauren before JoJo but he didn't and that's how this manipulation could work - and why they wouldn't let him have that date.

IMO from some of the things I've seen in Ben on his FD with JoJo, the romantic scenes with JoJo look to me to be something less than romantic; I'm working on some videos and transcriptions of what I am seeing. But IMO Ben was under a lot of stress, was frustrated, lying in several specifics, and either angry, disgusted or contemptuous about something or things when he was with JoJo on that date. The types of manipulation we're talking about could well explain why Ben was experiencing those emotions.

Lucas can't wait to see the video and transcripts you come up with. Always love your insights.

Ben said in an interview that he addressed the 2 ILYs with the F1 after the final rose/engagement. In the preview for the finale that aired tonight on the WTA, he told Jojo while she was crying in the bathroom on what looked like the last chance date that he loved her but also the other girl. IMO, that points to Lauren being the F1, since Jojo seems to have been told he loved them both before the final rose.

I haven't watched WTA yet, but I never doubt Lauren isn't the F1 (although I don't like her ). I only doubt how real is Lauren in this process and the
the compatibility of these two.

And I can't wait for this season to be over, TBH. I don't find Ben attractive nor interesting, and I like none of the girls, even worse is I don't like the spoiled F1. I hope these two would just fade to the background very soon.

peggy0221 wrote:I haven't watched WTA yet, but I never doubt Lauren isn't the F1 (although I don't like her   ). I only doubt how real is Lauren in this process and the
the compatibility of these two.

And I can't wait for this season to be over, TBH. I don't find Ben attractive nor interesting, and I like none of the girls, even worse is I don't like the spoiled F1. I hope these two would just fade to the background very soon.

I haven't doubted it either. Lauren B-oring B-land B-asic. Her and Ben won't last. Glad that JoJo managed to escape.

I really didn't like this season.

Unfortunately, Ben nor his ladies did it for me. At this moment, I have no interest following Ben and his F1.