The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

Nibbles22 wrote:

SarahD wrote:Can anyone who come into the show really claim to have been blindsided or ask not to be blindsided when they know full well the premise of the show, which is dating multiple people at the same time? If there is malicious intent then probably but if the lead is really compartmentalizing and exploring each relationship to the best they can, then no one can claim blindside.

Only he viewing public can claim blindside because there is malicious intent on the producers to edit everything for you to believe one thing when it's really a different outcome.

I don't want to be blindsided so I tried to look for clues that it's a different outcome than what I am hoping for!

Imo, JoJo and Ben displayed feelings of love with one another, including verbalizing those feelings.  Both intimately, and verbally.  This is NOT a common practice with leads.  Most leads wait (as instructed) until the proposal before they verbalize their feelings.   Undoubtedly, Ben was strongly urged (IMO) to tell both women how he was feeling, giving production exactly the outcome of this mess proposal, they were hoping for ~ which is one of these girls to be completely blindsided.  How could she NOT be blindsided??  Virtually the day before she and Ben were saying ILY to one another.  The next day she spends preparing herself for the best day of her life, only to be told, sorry, I love someone else more.  This is NOT a pretty picture no matter how you look at it.

Yep, the only others that come to mind are Bevin and maybe Ben F., but this is the most verbal validation I can remember. It would make more sense to me if he had been in love with Lauren for awhile as he said and then JoJo really did surpass what he felt for Lauren, but still, he should have kept it to himself until he figured it out.

avacaroline wrote:

kikora wrote:Ben wrote about his intentions regarding the FS:

Historically, the Bachelor Fantasy Suites have gotten a little hot and heavy. After all, it's the first time that the suitor and his potential mates can spend time away from the cameras. But newly minted Bachelor Ben Higgins insists his Fantasy Suites will be significantly more PG.

"I set boundaries for myself, especially physically and intimately" says the 26-year-old software accounts manager...

Says Higgins: "I based [the boundaries] on my Christian faith and also the fact that a lot of people are going to be watching this show and seeing a representation of dating, relationships and how a man treats a woman. I want them to get a good picture of what a healthy relationship can be."

http://www.people.com/article/bachelor-ben-higgins-says-fantasy-suites

There's obviously no guaranteeing he stuck with that (part of the snipped referenced his FS with Kaitlyn also) but just wanted to bring this forward since he said in advance they'd be more "PG" and he had "boundaries...physically and intimately..." for the FS dates.

This article is dated 12/29/2016 which is after filming was complete....not sure why he would lie about it knowing that there are mics everywhere.  If he did have sex in the FS, I don't think he would've come out and made these comments. JMO

I don't believe that he had sex with anyone other than Lauren - and maybe not even her. However I totally believe that the show wants people to believe that he did and have (and perhaps will continue to) dropped "hints" or "innuendos" to make people believe that he did. This would not, IMO, be the first time they have done this.
JMHO

I often find the good bye at the LCD very telling. I look for the one he/she seems to hold on to the longest (having hard saying good bye to) and then I`m pretty sure she/he is F2.

Lucas15 wrote:

avacaroline wrote:

kikora wrote:Ben wrote about his intentions regarding the FS:



http://www.people.com/article/bachelor-ben-higgins-says-fantasy-suites

There's obviously no guaranteeing he stuck with that (part of the snipped referenced his FS with Kaitlyn also) but just wanted to bring this forward since he said in advance they'd be more "PG" and he had "boundaries...physically and intimately..." for the FS dates.

This article is dated 12/29/2016 which is after filming was complete....not sure why he would lie about it knowing that there are mics everywhere.  If he did have sex in the FS, I don't think he would've come out and made these comments. JMO

I don't believe that he had sex with anyone other than Lauren - and maybe not even her. However I totally believe that the show wants people to believe that he did and have (and perhaps will continue to) dropped "hints" or "innuendos" to make people believe that he did. This would not, IMO, be the first time they have done this.
JMHO

I don't know if I believe that, especially with the Instagram post she posted last week.

allicat wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

avacaroline wrote:

This article is dated 12/29/2016 which is after filming was complete....not sure why he would lie about it knowing that there are mics everywhere.  If he did have sex in the FS, I don't think he would've come out and made these comments. JMO

I don't believe that he had sex with anyone other than Lauren - and maybe not even her. However I totally believe that the show wants people to believe that he did and have (and perhaps will continue to) dropped "hints" or "innuendos" to make people believe that he did. This would not, IMO, be the first time they have done this.
JMHO

I don't know if I believe that, especially with the Instagram post she posted last week.

Which one?

Miyala wrote:

allicat wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

I don't believe that he had sex with anyone other than Lauren - and maybe not even her. However I totally believe that the show wants people to believe that he did and have (and perhaps will continue to) dropped "hints" or "innuendos" to make people believe that he did. This would not, IMO, be the first time they have done this.
JMHO

I don't know if I believe that, especially with the Instagram post she posted last week.

Which one?

This one, https://www.instagram.com/p/BCOfuV2zSas/?taken-by=lauren_bushnell&hl=en

I don't think she was referring to sex with that. For me she just points to the importance to look at inner beauty instead of our looks. It doesn't have to have anything to do with the show IMO, it could though have to do with all the criticism that comes with the show… (about her families look etc)

relaxing wrote:

Seabear wrote:Just because someone is blindsided just not mean they immediately lash out in anger.  Perhaps she was just trying to pacify the situation so she could escape to the safety of her room and the consoling from her loved ones via a phone call.  I have not doubt that in that moment the F2 is going to be heartbroken

I know if it was me.....I would want to get away from Ben and the crew as fast as possible and be by myself to process my sadness with the people who truly love me....ie my family.

JMO

I'm loving all the discussion in this thread soooo much I can't even begin to quote all the great comments I want to so I'll just keep reading and liking but to the bolded I wanted to add that Jojo (assuming it's her) has been classy and mature all season so even though I think she will be shocked (either woman would be at this point) I don't think that means she def will be angry or confrontational with Ben.  I think she'll be classy as always, IMO. 

If I was F2 and had been told ILY plus all the other confidence boosters Ben (and I'm sure producers) have given her, I'd react most like Linsay Yenter I think and like the bold above.  Whatever, I'm done, shoes off and out :Nod: .  A guy who did all that reassuring to me just to pick someone else would be someone I'd get over and realize wasn't the person for me pretty darn fast.  JMO.

Exactly this. ^^^  
Outside the bubble with love and affection from family the upside down world would right itself.
Assuming the F2 is JoJo....Ironically Ben will prove her brothers concerns were valid.

On the other hand the F1 presumably Lauren would definitely need to process Ben's recounting of his ILY's and physical affection and conflicted feelings toward the F2.  Not fun.  I imagine she worked through that BUT watching the process play out on TV cannot feel good.  I would expect it touches a sore spot.  The true test for Ben and his F1 will be what they do to establish a long lasting healthy relationship IRL after the culmination of the ATFR and press tour.  If their love is solid they will make it through the transition and if not they will go the way of so many others before them have.  I hope they take their time and explore RL together, have fun, and if it works out for them..... that they are truly each others person.

Seabear wrote:

relaxing wrote:

Seabear wrote:Just because someone is blindsided just not mean they immediately lash out in anger.  Perhaps she was just trying to pacify the situation so she could escape to the safety of her room and the consoling from her loved ones via a phone call.  I have not doubt that in that moment the F2 is going to be heartbroken

I know if it was me.....I would want to get away from Ben and the crew as fast as possible and be by myself to process my sadness with the people who truly love me....ie my family.

JMO

I'm loving all the discussion in this thread soooo much I can't even begin to quote all the great comments I want to so I'll just keep reading and liking but to the bolded I wanted to add that Jojo (assuming it's her) has been classy and mature all season so even though I think she will be shocked (either woman would be at this point) I don't think that means she def will be angry or confrontational with Ben.  I think she'll be classy as always, IMO. 

If I was F2 and had been told ILY plus all the other confidence boosters Ben (and I'm sure producers) have given her, I'd react most like Linsay Yenter I think and like the bold above.  Whatever, I'm done, shoes off and out :Nod: .  A guy who did all that reassuring to me just to pick someone else would be someone I'd get over and realize wasn't the person for me pretty darn fast.  JMO.

Exactly this. ^^^  
Outside the bubble with love and affection from family the upside down world would right itself.
Assuming the F2 is JoJo....Ironically Ben will prove her brothers concerns were valid.

On the other hand the F1 presumably Lauren would definitely need to process Ben's recounting of his ILY's and physical affection and conflicted feelings toward the F2.  Not fun.  I imagine she worked through that BUT watching the process play out on TV cannot feel good.  I would expect it touches a sore spot.  The true test for Ben and his F1 will be what they do to establish a long lasting healthy relationship IRL after the culmination of the ATFR and press tour.  If their love is solid they will make it through the transition and if not they will go the way of so many others before them have.  I hope they take their time and explore RL together, have fun, and if it works out for them..... that they are truly each others person.

I think it will be hardest for the F1. The F2 can just move on, but the F1 has to process it...forgive or whatever they need for her to feel really loved. JMO

sosleepy wrote:ETA: other ways they can get Ben to say ILY to both: whisper doubts about his front runner (Lauren). Make him heavily question how she feels about him. At the same time, keep whispering to give JoJo another look. Keep talking her up, telling him how in love she is with him. That kind of manipulation would make anyone take a pause with the person they really want and allow them to become more emotionally available to the second.

BINGO!

IMO, this is exactly what happened.  The doubts about Lauren were being pushed on him so he was encouraged to look hard at the other girls, especially JoJo.  Had Lauren's FD actually been first, it would have been game over.  No ILY to JoJo at all!  The producers knew this and did everything in their power to change this up.  I have no doubt they encouraged JoJo to say ILY (although IMO she didn't mean it) to get just that response from Ben.  

These people are kept in the "bubble" for a reason. It makes them more compliant. They want to please the producers so will do whatever is asked or suggested to them.

2observe wrote:I keep reading posts which claims that Ben HAD to tell Jojo he loved her because we saw him tell Lauren.  But, since we know that Ben told Jojo he loved her, and since she was first, didn't he HAVE to tell Lauren too???

Just because they showed it on tv first dosen't mean the date was actually first. jmo

Jolena wrote:

2observe wrote:I keep reading posts which claims that Ben HAD to tell Jojo he loved her because we saw him tell Lauren.  But, since we know that Ben told Jojo he loved her, and since she was first, didn't he HAVE to tell Lauren too???

Just because they showed it on tv first dosen't mean the date was actually first. jmo

Jojo's date came before Lauren's in actual time.