The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

Buckeye_Fan wrote:

ForeverLove wrote:What i found interesting after rewatching the promo:

Lauren: I'm completely IN LOVE with Ben. (VO )
Caila: I know that I'm IN LOVE with you (face to face)
Jojo: You have exceeded all of my expectations and, I do love you.
(More methodical and does not seem as romantic imo. More like just a statement).

Thoughts?

I think JoJo's statement sounds like it's followed by a "but."  But what, who knows.  Could be a lot of things.  But we're not quite each others' types?  But I know your heart is not mine?  Considering what looks like a bad HTD coming up, I'm starting to wonder if she's F3 and Caila is F2.  JoJo still might be the other one he said ILY to, in response to her unromantic declaration.  And then maybe he let her go at F3 so as not to "blindside" her?

Even Ben's return smile after Jojo says her ily. Not the look of a happy man in love to me. It's as mechanical as her statement . That's mirroring.

ForeverLove wrote:

Buckeye_Fan wrote:

ForeverLove wrote:What i found interesting after rewatching the promo:

Lauren: I'm completely IN LOVE with Ben. (VO )
Caila: I know that I'm IN LOVE with you (face to face)
Jojo: You have exceeded all of my expectations and, I do love you.
(More methodical and does not seem as romantic imo. More like just a statement).

Thoughts?

I think JoJo's statement sounds like it's followed by a "but."  But what, who knows.  Could be a lot of things.  But we're not quite each others' types?  But I know your heart is not mine?  Considering what looks like a bad HTD coming up, I'm starting to wonder if she's F3 and Caila is F2.  JoJo still might be the other one he said ILY to, in response to her unromantic declaration.  And then maybe he let her go at F3 so as not to "blindside" her?

Even Ben's return smile after Jojo says her ily. Not the look of a happy man in love to me. It's as mechanical as her statement . That's mirroring.

Are we sure that is Ben to Jojo, not Ben to Lauren?? I just want to rule it out. I do think it is noteworthy that Lauren's is the only ILY that we haven't seen on a preview...I think they want to save that for the total effect watching in real time because I do believe Ben's reaction will be that one inside during the daytime "I've known I'm in love with you, too for a while now."

If BenJo's love declarations are so mechanical, why is Ben so tore up by the end? Is it all out of guilt? Maybe. But I just remember this VO "saying goodbye to her doesn't feel right". I don't think this particular VO was a frankenbite. 
Maybe he is towing the company line and putting on a good act...but as we have seen, Ben is not a convincing actor, IMO (i.e.: Kaitlyn's season)

tennischick80 wrote:

ForeverLove wrote:

Buckeye_Fan wrote:

I think JoJo's statement sounds like it's followed by a "but."  But what, who knows.  Could be a lot of things.  But we're not quite each others' types?  But I know your heart is not mine?  Considering what looks like a bad HTD coming up, I'm starting to wonder if she's F3 and Caila is F2.  JoJo still might be the other one he said ILY to, in response to her unromantic declaration.  And then maybe he let her go at F3 so as not to "blindside" her?

Even Ben's return smile after Jojo says her ily. Not the look of a happy man in love to me. It's as mechanical as her statement . That's mirroring.

Are we sure that is Ben to Jojo, not Ben to Lauren?? I just want to rule it out. I do think it is noteworthy that Lauren's is the only ILY that we haven't seen on a preview...I think they want to save that for the total effect watching in real time because I do believe Ben's reaction will be that one inside during the daytime "I've known I'm in love with you, too for a while now."

Imo Lauren's ILY is tied to her itm. She'll say that she's known for a while she's in love with him, and Ben's reply is similar, not just simple ily2.

^^ FWIW, I've always thought that particular statement might be him talking about his F1, it didn't feel right to say goodbye so he had to keep her.

That said, I agree that his feelings for Jojo are strong and real, not just mechanical. He looks at Lauren in a way that he doesn't look at anyone else, but Jojo gets her own special heart eyes sometimes too.

He's said multiple times post show that he did fall in love with 2 women. When he's said it post show, I definitely think he's mechanical looking and selling the party line. That's probably because he's out of the bubble now and not feeling those same bubble feelings anymore - basically he's moved on. But post show sales pitch probably involves a cornel of truth of what actually happened during filming.

agentcurls wrote:If BenJo's love declarations are so mechanical, why is Ben so tore up by the end? Is it all out of guilt? Maybe. But I just remember this VO "saying goodbye to her doesn't feel right". I don't think this particular VO was a frankenbite. 
Maybe he is towing the company line and putting on a good act...but as we have seen, Ben is not a convincing actor, IMO (i.e.: Kaitlyn's season)

Other leads have said the same thing as I recall about their F2's....like they want to keep them in their lives because their F2's become important to them Doesn't mean he want to marry her. He's torn up maybe because he doesn't want to hurt her and he does love her...

agentcurls wrote:If BenJo's love declarations are so mechanical, why is Ben so tore up by the end? Is it all out of guilt? Maybe. But I just remember this VO "saying goodbye to her doesn't feel right". I don't think this particular VO was a frankenbite. 
Maybe he is towing the company line and putting on a good act...but as we have seen, Ben is not a convincing actor, IMO (i.e.: Kaitlyn's season)

There's another promo with Ben walking by the ocean in Bahamas were there was heavy seas. You hear him say, methodically , "I'm in love with two women here"..... I WAS confused (not I AM confused) . We also hear in another promo during Bach Live, "I made the biggest mistake of my life. I think it could either be as some suggested here, one of the ILY's was a mistake. The I WAS confused is either showing past tense or an explanation why he said it. Maybe the explanation why he said the one of the ILY's as a mistake. When Ben is seen in the green tee talking about saying his two ILY's , he's not broken up about it. He's telling it like it is. Ben seems to get more and more distraught after saying goodbyes. His last one with Becca leaving shows that. Imagine saying goodbye to the F2. She did nothing wrong that made him want to let her go except, he loved someone more . He had told other's he's let go, my feelings are stronger with some of the other girls, or something of that nature . The doesn't feel right could be part of the she's done nothing wrong except I love someone more. They mashed one promo to show how confused Ben was, and one that states he WAS confused. Interesting.

Sean points out in his book that some of the time he spent in LA was spent filming ITMs- pick-ups, I guess, and some voiceovers he recorded from his closet. I'm pretty sure these are scripted- and the editors need them to move the story along. So any statement made not to a person and with the speakers back to us (we can't see his/her mouth) is open for interpretation IMO. I can't know the timing or the location. There are ITM which we know are not taped actually in that moment because the beard is to heavy or the jewelry or hair aren't quite right. Watching the preview it's very hard to put the words with the action.

I'm still confused by this:
If JoJo is being seriously considered for the Ette role, I don't know that she could be F2 going by MF's consistent pattern. 
But I  also can't wrap my head around Ben being so torn about sending Caila home at F2. 
So, if JoJo is F2 then Caila (or Amanda or Becca) could get the Ette role. 
OR, Lauren is the real F2 & that's why he is so distraught by the end 
(I admit it's probably NOT the case, but yet...it's still not impossible, a'la puppet-master MF).

agentcurls wrote:If BenJo's love declarations are so mechanical, why is Ben so tore up by the end? Is it all out of guilt? Maybe. But I just remember this VO "saying goodbye to her doesn't feel right". I don't think this particular VO was a frankenbite. 
Maybe he is towing the company line and putting on a good act...but as we have seen, Ben is not a convincing actor, IMO (i.e.: Kaitlyn's season)

I think he is talking about his F1 there: Lucas (I think) rearranged what he says and bottom line is:

About/to F2: Normally I wouldnt want to ever say goodbye
BUT
About F1: I love another woman MORE and "saying goodbye to her doesn't feel right"... where as saying goodbye to F2 sucks but isnt as bad as living without F1

sophienette wrote:

agentcurls wrote:If BenJo's love declarations are so mechanical, why is Ben so tore up by the end? Is it all out of guilt? Maybe. But I just remember this VO "saying goodbye to her doesn't feel right". I don't think this particular VO was a frankenbite. 
Maybe he is towing the company line and putting on a good act...but as we have seen, Ben is not a convincing actor, IMO (i.e.: Kaitlyn's season)

I think he is talking about his F1 there: Lucas (I think) rearranged what he says and bottom line is:

About/to F2: Normally I wouldnt want to ever say goodbye
BUT
About F1: I love another woman MORE  and "saying goodbye to her doesn't feel right"... where as saying goodbye to F2 sucks but isnt as bad as living without F1

Ok, I get that, but some are discounting the BenJo relationship, when it may have been more difficult to let her go than expected. That's what I was pointing out.

agentcurls wrote:I'm still confused by this:
If JoJo is being seriously considered for the Ette role, I don't know that she could be F2 going by MF's consistent pattern. 
But I  also can't wrap my head around Ben being so torn about sending Caila home at F2. 
So, if JoJo is F2 then Caila (or Amanda or Becca) could get the Ette role. 
OR, Lauren is the real F2 & that's why he is so distraught by the end 
(I admit it's probably NOT the case, but yet...it's still not impossible, a'la puppet-master MF).

For every other foilers, there were hints pointing to the truth... Some we (I) discredited/ignored (Des/Chris) and some which were impossible to ignore (Brad/Emily). So far we havent seen anything that could point us to Lauren not being F1, or to Jojo or Caila being it. But we keep looking until the very end!