The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

Lucas15 wrote:

Lily wrote:On his blog, he wrote "What shocked me watching it that night was hearing Lauren say she was in love with me. I know to a lot of you this is a TV show and that you expect stuff like this, but I had no idea.. Isn't that weird though?! Wouldn't they be reminiscing now that they are together about it and surely things like I knew I was in love with you that day after our date in Warsaw would come up.

Of course NOW they would have been able to reminisce but Ben has to write his blog as though he doesn't know (yet) what we don't know yet - he can only comment on things we now know as a result of watching the show. At the time, Ben didn't know Lauren had said that because she didn't say it to him - she said it in an ITM. That he would later discover what she said is something he has to pretend he doesn't know as knowing it would give away the ending.
JMHO

I thought he was writing those blogs as he is watching the show.I didn't see them as ITM statements. Oh well I tried In any case, this really is a classy season. I like all the contestants, which is a first for me. I'm pleasantly surprised and impressed with how these ladies have conducted themselves.

Jeepers wrote:

ForeverLove wrote:What i found interesting after rewatching the promo:

Lauren: I'm completely IN LOVE with Ben. (VO )
Caila: I know that I'm IN LOVE with you (face to face)
Jojo: You have exceeded all of my expectations and, I do love you.
(More methodical and does not seem as romantic imo. More like just a statement).

Thoughts?

Lauren .. Im completely..... All in
Caila .. I know..... Cerebral
JoJo .. exceeded blah blah .. Hello there friend .. Methodical yes!!

All those high fives too. More than once.

Jeepers wrote:Very plausible  about Lauren saying she has been in love with him for awhile .. As we saw her initial reaction when she said it and the realization of what she said and was feeling .. And it will be a while before she was to tell him those words

And those words based on her overall reaction will be how she really feel

ForeverLove wrote:Is there any way he said the ily to Caila? Because now we hear Jojo's statement, how does it match it with his statement? It doesn't add up.

Sure there's a way - I just don't think it's as likely. IMO Ben is mirroring back to the girls what they said to him. Thus (even though we haven't heard a girl say this to Ben) when Ben said "I've known I'm in love with you for a while, as well." he said it to someone who had just said to him "I've known I'm in love with you for a while". IMO that's Lauren because she has already said she's in love with Ben and by the time she says that to Ben it would then have been "for a while".

If Caila said "I know that I'm IN LOVE with you" Ben might have mirrored that as well, saying "I'm in love with you as well" But we haven't heard that he ever said that to anyone.

When JoJo said to Ben "You have exceeded all of my expectations and, I do love you." I think PART of what Ben said back to her - "I do love you" - mirrored what she said to him. But Ben's "I do love you" statement was closely cropped (the "Honestly was an audio edit - he didn't say it then) so I think he said something else as well - we just don't yet know what.

Lucas15 wrote:

ForeverLove wrote:Is there any way he said the ily to Caila? Because now we hear Jojo's statement, how does it match it with his statement? It doesn't add up.

Sure there's a way - I just don't think it's as likely. IMO Ben is mirroring back to the girls what they said to him. Thus (even though we haven't heard a girl say this to Ben) when Ben said "I've known I'm in love with you for a while, as well." he said it to someone who had just said to him "I've known I'm in love with you for a while". IMO that's Lauren because she has already said she's in love with Ben and by the time she says that to Ben it would then have been "for a while".

If Caila said "I know that I'm IN LOVE with you" Ben might have mirrored that as well, saying "I'm in love with you as well" But we haven't heard that he ever said that to anyone.

When JoJo said to Ben "You have exceeded all of my expectations and, I do love you." I think PART of what Ben said back to her - "I do love you" - mirrored what she said to him. But Ben's "I do love you" statement was closely cropped (the "Honestly was an audio edit - he didn't say it then) so I think he said something else as well - we just don't yet know what.

Ok, if another needed validation , interesting to add in "honestly " . Doesn't seem necessary. Interesting points above.

Lucas15 wrote:

ForeverLove wrote:What i found interesting after rewatching the promo:

Lauren: I'm completely IN LOVE with Ben. (VO )
Caila: I know that I'm IN LOVE with you (face to face)
Jojo: You have exceeded all of my expectations and, I do love you.
(More methodical and does not seem as romantic imo. More like just a statement).

Thoughts?

I think what's interesting about these phrases is how they match up to things we've seen Ben say in promos, and I'll cut these backup to just the things we saw him say and skip the things we heard him say when there was an obvious audio edit between what we heard and what we saw:

Ben 1: "I do love you."
Ben 2: "I've known I'm in love with you for a while, as well."

Now my take is that Ben said "I've known I'm in love with you for a while, as well." to someone who first said to him "I've known I'm in love with you for a while" - because Ben added the "as well" to the end. Ben had a very soft tone to his voice and a very sincere expression on his face when he said that.

The "I do love you." statement was more "mechanical" and not romantic - more matter of fact, as was his expression. Also in the context of other season, IIRC, the show makes a distinction between "I love you" and "I'm in love with you". "I love you" doesn't mean love in a romantic sense - it can mean in a platonic sense. "I'm in love with you" typically means romantic love. By that metric, JoJo's statement (which sort of matches one of Ben's statements) carries less weight because she didn't say "I'm in love with you".

It may be significant that Calia's statement is face-to-face as it appears so is JoJo's. But Lauren is an ITM and we don't know exactly how she will phrase it when she actually says it to Ben. My guess? She will tell him she's known she's been in love with him for a while.

What I find fascinating - not surprising - fascinating... is how much mileage they are squeezing out of the entire "I Love You" saga. It is not uncommon for a lead to say to the final 2 that he loves them both. As recently as Sean's season, at the FRC he told Lindsay that he loved her before delivering the "but..." that lead into her rejection. In spite of this, the spoilers promoted a mystery letter from Catherine and his shocked/worried expressions that she was going to reject him. Clearly, they were able to inflate cliffhangers more on a letter. In Andy Baldwin's season, he professed his love for Bevin before rejecting her. Yet the spoilers were all building the drama on Tessa's fear of falling in love - giving that 'double love' status no regard. And again, there was Desire who loved her top two and the shows leading up to the ending promoted her "in love with Brooks" but accepted a proposal from someone who only otherwise "liked a lot".

Somewhere you posted (perhaps up-stream on this thread) a fascinating comment about leadership in the corporate leadership at Disney - and... the likely request to "recover" the reputation of the show and a largely family-based network. The mid-season sex scene with Nick had the potential to open Pandora's box for all future edits of the show. Crossing over certain lines are often difficult to "uncross", if you will.

So, Ben is selected with a montage of photos set to a song, "it's raining ben, hallelujah". Clearly there was a purposeful decision to select a "nice, wholesome" guy to be a lead. And I suppose that is where my fascination of the "I love you both" proclamation begins. I'm more than sure there were more leads loving both F1 and F2 but feeling more "in love" with just one. The concept isn't new - but what else do they have to promote from this otherwise "wholesome" man? My goodness, they are even bringing in mom and dad early to make it look like a "family setting" in making his decision on who he will propose to.

In many ways - The Bachelor went to "rated PG" this season.... and I'll bet the next five seasons that they were renewed for will be more of the same.

I'm gonna throw something out there.... Could he have said I do love you to Amanda???? Look at his shirt on the beach with Amanda. Is it the same as the one from the spoiler????

The 'honestly i do love you' feels so fake, doesn't look convincing to me at all.

ForeverLove wrote:

Jeepers wrote:

ForeverLove wrote:What i found interesting after rewatching the promo:

Lauren: I'm completely IN LOVE with Ben. (VO )
Caila: I know that I'm IN LOVE with you (face to face)
Jojo: You have exceeded all of my expectations and, I do love you.
(More methodical and does not seem as romantic imo. More like just a statement).

Thoughts?

Lauren .. Im completely..... All in
Caila .. I know..... Cerebral
JoJo .. exceeded blah blah .. Hello there friend .. Methodical yes!!

All those high fives too. More than once.

There were high fives and other "friendly" gestures between Des/Chris. I realize he was originally F2 then became F1 and as such, those types of exchanges were left in the edit for whatever reason (maybe to perpetuate the Brooks spoiler). I'm not saying that's the case here though.

ForeverLove wrote:What i found interesting after rewatching the promo:

Lauren: I'm completely IN LOVE with Ben. (VO )
Caila: I know that I'm IN LOVE with you (face to face)
Jojo: You have exceeded all of my expectations and, I do love you.
(More methodical and does not seem as romantic imo. More like just a statement).

Thoughts?

I think JoJo's statement sounds like it's followed by a "but." But what, who knows. Could be a lot of things. But we're not quite each others' types? But I know your heart is not mine? Considering what looks like a bad HTD coming up, I'm starting to wonder if she's F3 and Caila is F2. JoJo still might be the other one he said ILY to, in response to her unromantic declaration. And then maybe he let her go at F3 so as not to "blindside" her?

I really hope JoJo is somehow F3 and ends up the Bachelorette. I adore her.

I really don't think he said "I love you" to Amanda. I think he tells Jojo and Lauren. I would love it if he let jojo go earlier, but he looks like a total mess in his FRC suit, supposedly before the proposal, meaning she probably let him have it. After she leaves (or if its Lauren whom he lets go- doubtful, but not impossible) CH probably says, "Okay, I'll give you some time to get yourself together or figure out what you want to do..." after he has his meltdown. Or, he's just getting so emotional about the fact that he's ready to join his life with someone else & found his wife...??????