The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

grace8136 wrote:

jcrbil wrote:IMO it's also possible that the spliced VO "I made the biggest mistake of my life" etc. will never be aired in the finale- just as "this changes everything" from CH never  made it.

Also, to reference the 3 on 1 date- Sean had his f1 and f2 on that date- and f2 got the rose and tptb made it appear that f4 got most of the attention.  So, f1 and f2 are not always separated on that date.

Some think Ashlee was the F1 at that point. I know that's not a popular thing to say, but Sean himself has said he changed who his top girls were from day 1. Clare and Nikki weren't together on a group date. Maybe Auntie's Love has this info for other seasons. I'll ask her.  

Now that I think about it, that clue could actually be pro Caila as F2 (or F1), since she wasn't on the group date.

Caila was on the group date in Warsaw though...

Aunties_Love wrote:

grace8136 wrote:

jcrbil wrote:IMO it's also possible that the spliced VO "I made the biggest mistake of my life" etc. will never be aired in the finale- just as "this changes everything" from CH never  made it.

Also, to reference the 3 on 1 date- Sean had his f1 and f2 on that date- and f2 got the rose and tptb made it appear that f4 got most of the attention.  So, f1 and f2 are not always separated on that date.

Some think Ashlee was the F1 at that point. I know that's not a popular thing to say, but Sean himself has said he changed who his top girls were from day 1. Clare and Nikki weren't together on a group date. Maybe Auntie's Love has this info for other seasons. I'll ask her.  

Now that I think about it, that clue could actually be pro Caila as F2 (or F1), since she wasn't on the group date.

Caila was on the group date in Warsaw though...

But not with Lauren. Is that not what you meant? or just episode 7?

relaxing wrote:

Mommyof1 wrote:

sosleepy wrote:

There just ain't no way the Lauren I'm seeing is saying no to any kind of proposal from Ben Higgens. Girl is in deep. Just as, if not deeper, than Ben. And that's saying something, because Ben is in the deep end.

It's funny what we each see on our TV, because she looks totally bored to me.  I feel zero emotion from her.  Jmo.

I know!  I'm surprised there aren't more comments about this.  She had an adorable big smile and energy during their first night talk that seems to have gone missing lately when she's with Ben.  And sometimes I notice Ben staring googly eyed at her as she looks forward or away from him.  Has she ever looked at him that way?  That is a genuine question I'm asking because I've been waiting to see it but haven't yet so maybe I missed a moment where she seems like a goner for him?

She was definitely leaning away from his kiss at the end of their date - maybe because it was getting too hot and heavy in front of a camera crew as someone mentioned, but it was very noticeable.  I just can't get a good read on Lauren at all. I almost feel a bit of a reverse Chris and Whitney - Ben immediately in bubble love and Lauren likes him -  and I really hope my impression on that is wrong.  I hope she just doesn't show her emotions in a big way and just is a calm level-headed girl who is actually falling in love with him or made more reserved by the process.

I honestly don't think she liked him confronting her last week.  Either she is really reserved or she just isn't into Ben.  Not sure which one fits the bill at this point.  I agree with you about the comparison of Whitney and Chris.  Whitney was ready to move to Arlington and have babies and Chris was just going through the motions.  Time will tell with these two.

agentcurls wrote:^I think she is more reserved. She had said something along those lines in VO.  Ben may find that endearing. When they snuck away during group date in Mex City, she did seem less so, possibly because the camera crew might not have been so invasive.

I see this has become a more prevalent topic of conversation quite recently; however it was something that started to get my curiosity going a couple of days ago, and so I went back yesterday and re watched several major scenes of Ben and Lauren - specifically their first 1-1 date on Ep3, their walk through Mexico City, their conversation after what Leah said to Ben about Lauren, and their second 1-1 in Warsaw. As I watched I was specifically looking for how much and under what circumstances Lauren "dodged kisses" or looked away from Ben.

First the count:
She did it slightly one time on the first 1-1 - when making out in the hot tub
She didn't do it during the walk in Mexico City
She did it very notably in the conversation with Ben about what Leah said
She did it as well, several times, during her second 1-1 with Ben

So - what might she be doing? Well IMO it's a body language "statement" but I couldn't really find any specific explanation for why someone might do that. That's not too surprising though because everyone has their own peculiar mannerisms in body language and generalities sometimes don't apply to those "quirks". So I then started looking less into the why and more into the when, and to me, the "Rosetta Stone" to decipher her was the conversation with Ben about what Leah said.

When Ben told Lauren what had been said about her, she looked away - dramatically, and only after a bit did she look back at Ben. She expressed that she didn't know how to respond to that because she had always tried to be herself. The conversation was relatively brief before someone else barged in and she went back to the rest of the girls. And proceeded to bawl her eyes out. So what does this suggest to me? First, she did not want to break down and cry in front of Ben; she may have felt like it but she "disconnected" from Ben until she could control herself, hold back the tears and sadness (and perhaps fear) and reply logically. IMO this is Lauren's way of keeping her cool and keeping her emotions from running away on her and staying "strong" the way she wants to. She retreats into her own thoughts until she has them clear and can stay in control.

So why some of the other times? Well, IMO the same thing; Lauren does this to control her emotions - all of her emotions, not just sad ones. In Mexico City she felt more alone - probably just as AC speculated because the cameras weren't stuck smack into her face from 3 feet away. She was also separate from all the other girls with little chance of them seeing, and she was comfortable with Ben. All the other times she had cameras in her face; I know people say you get so used to them you forget they're there but I don't think Lauren can. Perhaps later on she will grow more comfortable with them.

I also think that Lauren may be very passionate when it comes to intimacy (if you get my drift) and sometimes with Ben she just gets a little too ... not sure how to put it delicately so I'll just say "involved" or "carried away". Put a ring on her finger and alone with Ben and IMO she's not going to be dodging any kisses.

JMHO

The dodged kisses.....they were both goofy laughing at each other. It was a cute little flirtation.

Thank you for saying that Baseball Queen! I thought so too but I was beginning to think I was seeing what I wanted to see. I thought when I saw it that his shoulders were shaking from laughing and she is clearly laughing and he seems really happy right after. Not like when past contestants have pulled away. They were just joking around about something. Or so it seemed to me.

casjacknick wrote:Thank you for saying that Baseball Queen! I thought so too but I was beginning to think I was seeing what I wanted to see. I thought when I saw it that his shoulders were shaking from laughing and she is clearly laughing and he seems really happy right after. Not like when past contestants have pulled away. They were just joking around about something. Or so it seemed to me.

Perfectly said! My thoughts exactly!

When she's looking away on the rooftop, looks like her eyes catches sight of movement, like a cameraman moving into a different position or something . Then she turns the other way and Ben smiles and buries his face into her neck and it seems they do laugh at something.

grace8136 wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

grace8136 wrote:

Some think Ashlee was the F1 at that point. I know that's not a popular thing to say, but Sean himself has said he changed who his top girls were from day 1. Clare and Nikki weren't together on a group date. Maybe Auntie's Love has this info for other seasons. I'll ask her.  

Now that I think about it, that clue could actually be pro Caila as F2 (or F1), since she wasn't on the group date.

Caila was on the group date in Warsaw though...

But not with Lauren. Is that not what you meant? or just episode 7?

epi 7, Lauren and JoJo had individual dates but with Caila, she was on the group one.

FWIW, the F3 person has been on the group date in seasons:

3, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19

Since I haven't really been following that close, don't know really what you all have been talking about. Hope this helps though??

I'm having trouble seeing where Lauren is being standoffish with Ben. I think she's flirty and having fun with him.

Isn't Jojo seen in the LCD in the rainforest? I didn't think it looked like Caila.

Eviebloom wrote:I like Lauren's far away look when Ben is kissing her.  She is thinking about him and their future and what it all might mean.  I think it is endearing.  Of course just my take on it...

It reminded me of Catherine with Sean. She looked out into the horizon as Sean kissed her on the side of her head. Some people thought at the time that she wasn't into him either. I think it is pretty obvious that she loves her husband and was at least "in lust" with him at the time of filming. Her shaking at the proposal was evidence of how excited she was to get him to herself. I think that Lauren may still have her guard up some since she knows he is still dating 3 other (5 at the time) girls that she respects and can't quite believe he would pick her.

albean99 wrote:I'm having trouble seeing where Lauren is being standoffish with Ben. I think she's flirty and having fun with him.

Isn't Jojo seen in the LCD in the rainforest? I didn't think it looked like Caila.

Agreed! She's not stand offish at all. I also think they are editing them both together way down!! Ive barely heard Ben say anything about Lauren since their first date. The things he said on that first date....the ITM's were the cutest things ever.