The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - Scaps - Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

I wonder if Ben had been told all along he had to keep Becca until HTDs and in Warsaw just didn't want to do it, hence the Chris chat. Leads going against TPTB were taught with JPG to be fearful.

If that is the case and he kept single mom Amanda to meet her kids it is very interesting. I would think Ben if he knew F1 was someone else would have avoided meeting the children. JMO.

stuckinsc wrote:I wonder if Ben had been told all along he had to keep Becca until HTDs and in Warsaw just didn't want to do it, hence the Chris chat. Leads going against TPTB were taught with JPG to be fearful.

If that is the case and he kept single mom Amanda to meet her kids it is very interesting. I would think Ben if he knew F1 was someone else would have avoided meeting the children. JMO.

I don't think it was between Becca and Amanda, since Amanda got a rose on the group date already. It must've been between Becca and Caila. That makes me think that Caila wasn't their number one choice for the next lead at that point at least, otherwise they would've made Ben choose her rather than the other way around.

mindless wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:I wonder if Ben had been told all along he had to keep Becca until HTDs and in Warsaw just didn't want to do it, hence the Chris chat. Leads going against TPTB were taught with JPG to be fearful.

If that is the case and he kept single mom Amanda to meet her kids it is very interesting. I would think Ben if he knew F1 was someone else would have avoided meeting the children. JMO.

I don't think it was between Becca and Amanda, since Amanda got a rose on the group date already. It must've been between Becca and Caila. That makes me think that Caila wasn't their number one choice for the next lead at that point at least, otherwise they would've made Ben choose her rather than the other way around.

Good thinking! I can see that.

Nutty, I just love your twirling rose and message in your signature line! So very neat-o.

So many different eyes, so many different options.

mindless wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:I wonder if Ben had been told all along he had to keep Becca until HTDs and in Warsaw just didn't want to do it, hence the Chris chat. Leads going against TPTB were taught with JPG to be fearful.

If that is the case and he kept single mom Amanda to meet her kids it is very interesting. I would think Ben if he knew F1 was someone else would have avoided meeting the children. JMO.

I don't think it was between Becca and Amanda, since Amanda got a rose on the group date already. It must've been between Becca and Caila. That makes me think that Caila wasn't their number one choice for the next lead at that point at least, otherwise they would've made Ben choose her rather than the other way around.

I've been thinking that from the beginning, that Caila took Becca's spot. It would back up what both Kasha and RS heard about Becca getting a HTD and it would explain why RS had heard that Caila made it much further than she was supposed to.

I actually think, however, that TPTB wanted Caila at f4. For whatever reason, they really wanted her to stick out to viewers as they gave her the first date, which happens to be the "celebrity date" (like Kaitlyn got). She got an into vid and she was featured heavily in the promos. I also think that if Ben really wanted to go against TPTB, he would have done so by not picking Amanda for f4 since she was introducing him to kids. I think that Ben did exactly what TPTB wanted, TBH. At least that's what I think now. Maybe I'll change my opinion once I compare the chemistry between Ben and Caila to that of Ben and Becca.

So IF Caila took Becca's spot, who do y'all think TPTB were leaning towards as the next lead at that time? Becca?

nutty I like your twirling Rose also

I agree with a lot of what Nothatgirl said.

I think Ben knew who his F2 girls were at that point and I'm thinking Becca was supposed to get a HTD, but he ended up switching it and going along with what production wanted, which was for Caila and Amanda to get a HTD. Judging by the previews, and I'm sure we'll know and see more as the season goes on, but it looked like Ben enjoyed his time with Becca, so I wouldn't be surprised if he felt bad letting her go even if he knew she definitely wasn't the one.

I just don't see Ben bringing Amanda to the F4 knowing she has two toddlers and knowing she wasn't the one, so Amanda getting a HTD screams a producer pick to me. I'll have to wait and see how Ben is with Caila, but IMO, I wouldn't be surprised if it played out like Nothatgirl said.

Reading the posts from stuck, Noththatgirl & Ash2214 gave me the "ah-ha" moment. It's a balancing act for TPTB with the contestants each season. Gotta keep them thinking they either have a shot at the F1 prize or the next lead to keep them in the game. 

Based on what we know, TPTB led Becca & her family to believe she would get a HTD. She had already made it clear on SM she wanted to go on the show, so the HTD "promise" would keep her thinking she would get the lead role. Ben kicks Becca to the curb (along with the twin), so most likely TPTB have another lead in mind among the remaining women.

Lauren is F1 with Jojo as the usual physical/hot chemistry F2. Ben is definitely a good guy and wouldn't want to bring Amanda's toddlers into the picture if there wasn't a compelling reason. I think TPTB are seriously considering Amanda as the next lead. She's a beautiful, young, single mom bravely raising two precious girls on her own. 

If TPTB can't sell that package to the viewers, they still have cute-smart-fesity Caila or smoking hot-wealthy JoJo. TPTB win again.

Well all I know is that in the preview it seemed like Ben was the one who wanted to switch from Becca to Caila last minute, since he was talking to CH who said it'll change everything. I can't imagine him wanting Becca in the F4 and TPTB convincing him to take Caila instead, so do you think TPTB wanted Becca first but then changed their minds and told Ben about it just before the RC? Why would they leave it until last minute? So they'd get some drama out of confused Ben going in there unprepared? It's just confusing.

mindless wrote:Well all I know is that in the preview it seemed like Ben was the one who wanted to switch from Becca to Caila last minute, since he was talking to CH who said it'll change everything. I can't imagine him wanting Becca in the F4 and TPTB convincing him to take Caila instead, so do you think TPTB wanted Becca first but then changed their minds and told Ben about it just before the RC? Why would they leave it until last minute? So they'd get some drama out of confused Ben going in there unprepared? It's just confusing.

In answer to your question bolded did TPTB always want Becca, yes this is what I've always believed. And they changed it at the last minute because Becca's "for sure" HTD got leaked out to the public at the last minute BEFORE the rose ceremony even happened. That would've been a huge scandal to the show to have the public know that a HTD is for sure happening but Ben hasn't even decided who he is choosing yet! All imo.

Nothatgirl, great post!