The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - FRC - ATFR- July 27th - Thread#3 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

I still think that Kaitlyn was planning to choose Nick until her mom and sister met the guys and swayed her to "come to her senses".  I think that she was in "the moment with Nick" and wasn't thinking about reality until her family snapped her back into it by telling her how against Nick they really were after meeting Shawn and seeing her "act more like herself" with him.  And by that time she had already told Nick she loved him twice and slept with him a bunch of times.  

And then the back tracking began after she "came to her sense" and starting thinking about the reality.   Now she says and feels like Shawn was always "the one", because she is thinking more clearly about reality after being brought out of her "world with Nick".  If her family had left her in that world, she very well might have chosen Nick only to be woken up after accepting his proposal and trying to live in real life with him.

I do think that things between Kaitlyn and Nick could have worked out, but it would have been a lot harder.  They would have had to work at it more so than with Shawn. This is something that Nick would not have minded, but Kaitlyn would likely have become frustrated and "fallen out of love" pretty quickly.  

On the other hand, Shawn lets her be herself...immature and impulsive.  He doesn't challenge her to be a better version of herself but indulges her need to be protected and cherished just the way she is.  There is less personal growth in this type of relationship, but a lot more comfort and surface level enjoyment... Things Kaitlyn seems to crave.  So, in the long run this was likely a good and easy decision for Kaitlyn.  However, in my opinion she would have benefitted greatly from a relationship with Nick that would have stretched her to be the best version of herself.  And in turn, Kaitlyn's influence could have inspired growth for Nick as well.

chasingpavements wrote:

eliza3 wrote:You see I actually think he did know on some level.   To me, keeping his hands in his pockets, never touching Kaitlyn (other than the first quick hug) spoke volumes to me.   He knew it was over IMHO

He specifically said he didn't. He even said that there was a moment when he got nervous and she reached out to hold his hands and say "go on".

I don't care what he said, I don't buy it. To me if you are SO in love that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone and you can't even hold her hand as you tell her why you love her then there is something off.
He couldn't keep his hands off her most of the season, then why would he not have at least touched her during one of the MOST important moments of their lives. Unless he already knew.

It is the first thing I said when I watched it that night and I still think it is true. What he says after the fact to me is his attempt to garner sympathy and support for his next role.

That's fair, you're allowed to not believe him. I just think that's how Nick is whenever he's being vulnerable and saying something sappy. When he told her he loved her or said that line about "falling in love with you is the only thing keeping me breathing in this world", he would get shy and look down and not hold her hand.

eliza3 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

eliza3 wrote:You see I actually think he did know on some level.   To me, keeping his hands in his pockets, never touching Kaitlyn (other than the first quick hug) spoke volumes to me.   He knew it was over IMHO

He specifically said he didn't. He even said that there was a moment when he got nervous and she reached out to hold his hands and say "go on".

I don't care what he said, I don't buy it.   To me if you are SO in love that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone and you can't even hold her hand as you tell her why you love her then there is something off.  
He couldn't keep his hands off her most of the season, then why would he not have at least touched her during one of the MOST important moments of their lives.   Unless he already knew.

It is the first thing I said when I watched it that night and I still think it is true.  What he says after the fact to me is his attempt to garner sympathy and support for his next role.

I disagree. I totally understand Nick's inability to see Kaitlyn's body language and fearful facial expression when he was about to pour his heart out to her. He was a man on a mission... Trying to make sure that he said what was on his heart in the right way. Nick is a bit of a perfectionist, especially when it comes to himself. He was focusing on making sure the proposal came out right and failed to see the obvious signs right in front of him because he was so reassured that she was all in after she grabbed his hand and said, "it's ok". I don't think his lack of holding her hands was because he knew she wasn't going to accept him. I think he was nervous and too much "in his own head" to notice.

eliza3 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

eliza3 wrote:You see I actually think he did know on some level.   To me, keeping his hands in his pockets, never touching Kaitlyn (other than the first quick hug) spoke volumes to me.   He knew it was over IMHO

He specifically said he didn't. He even said that there was a moment when he got nervous and she reached out to hold his hands and say "go on".

I don't care what he said, I don't buy it.   To me if you are SO in love that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone and you can't even hold her hand as you tell her why you love her then there is something off.  
He couldn't keep his hands off her most of the season, then why would he not have at least touched her during one of the MOST important moments of their lives.   Unless he already knew.

It is the first thing I said when I watched it that night and I still think it is true.  What he says after the fact to me is his attempt to garner sympathy and support for his next role.

I would have thought he could have told by the look on her face. She was even starting to check out during LCD - yes, I know they made out on his bed, but probably it was because she really wanted to avoid any real conversation regarding FRC.

I don't think she was ever planning on choosing Nick. It seemed like she kind of was always leaning towards Shawn despite what the editing made you think.

Anyway, it worked out best for all of them for the time being and it happened nearly 3 months ago.

eliza3 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

eliza3 wrote:You see I actually think he did know on some level.   To me, keeping his hands in his pockets, never touching Kaitlyn (other than the first quick hug) spoke volumes to me.   He knew it was over IMHO

He specifically said he didn't. He even said that there was a moment when he got nervous and she reached out to hold his hands and say "go on".

I don't care what he said, I don't buy it.   To me if you are SO in love that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone and you can't even hold her hand as you tell her why you love her then there is something off.  
He couldn't keep his hands off her most of the season, then why would he not have at least touched her during one of the MOST important moments of their lives.   Unless he already knew.

It is the first thing I said when I watched it that night and I still think it is true.  What he says after the fact to me is his attempt to garner sympathy and support for his next role.

Why would he hold her hand when she stopped him during his proposal ? I would like to know as a fan of Nick where he is trying to garnish sympathy or has shown that he he is trying to get the gig for the bachelor. All I have seen is people asking him if he would do it. His answer has always been the same he says he would have to think long and hard and discuss it with his family and friends.

whit90 wrote:

eliza3 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

He specifically said he didn't. He even said that there was a moment when he got nervous and she reached out to hold his hands and say "go on".

I don't care what he said, I don't buy it.   To me if you are SO in love that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone and you can't even hold her hand as you tell her why you love her then there is something off.  
He couldn't keep his hands off her most of the season, then why would he not have at least touched her during one of the MOST important moments of their lives.   Unless he already knew.

It is the first thing I said when I watched it that night and I still think it is true.  What he says after the fact to me is his attempt to garner sympathy and support for his next role.

Why would he hold her hand when she stopped him during his proposal ? I would like to know as a fan of Nick where he is trying to garnish sympathy or has shown that he he is trying to get the gig for the bachelor. All I have seen is people asking him if he would do it. His answer has always been the same he says he would have to think long and hard and discuss it with his family and friends.

He didn't hold her hand before she stopped him…nothing except the first hug when he arrived. Sorry, but to me that is just odd.

chasingpavements wrote:My thing is why tell him she loved him multiple times and ask him multiple times if he would be ready to propose. That's something that Ali has said you're not allowed to do, so Kaitlyn was okay with going against production to give Nick false security and confidence? I just don't get it, but I've come to realize that Kaitlyn just is not a person who thinks before she acts.

How do we know that Kaitlyn was going against what production wanted - or going with what production wanted? Do we have any factual evidence of what production wanted her to do? Because Ali said so?

IMO Ali presents herself as the be all / end all source of knowledge of all things bachelorette. I think she certainly knew how things went on her own season but that was years ago and producers change, seasons change, and story lines for each season change.
JMHO

Lucas15 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:My thing is why tell him she loved him multiple times and ask him multiple times if he would be ready to propose. That's something that Ali has said you're not allowed to do, so Kaitlyn was okay with going against production to give Nick false security and confidence? I just don't get it, but I've come to realize that Kaitlyn just is not a person who thinks before she acts.

How do we know that Kaitlyn was going against what production wanted - or going with what production wanted? Do we have any factual evidence of what production wanted her to do? Because Ali said so?

IMO Ali presents herself as the be all / end all source of knowledge of all things bachelorette. I think she certainly knew how things went on her own season but that was years ago and producers change, seasons change, and story lines for each season change.
JMHO

Plus Ali's main source is Nick. Not saying Nick is lying but there are 2 sides to everything imho.

isittrue wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:My thing is why tell him she loved him multiple times and ask him multiple times if he would be ready to propose. That's something that Ali has said you're not allowed to do, so Kaitlyn was okay with going against production to give Nick false security and confidence? I just don't get it, but I've come to realize that Kaitlyn just is not a person who thinks before she acts.

How do we know that Kaitlyn was going against what production wanted - or going with what production wanted? Do we have any factual evidence of what production wanted her to do? Because Ali said so?

IMO Ali presents herself as the be all / end all source of knowledge of all things bachelorette. I think she certainly knew how things went on her own season but that was years ago and producers change, seasons change, and story lines for each season change.
JMHO

Plus Ali's main source is Nick.  Not saying Nick is lying but there are 2 sides to everything imho.

I totally agree!

I think the notion that Kaitlyn slept with Nick multiple times keeps growing. We only know for sure about 2 times. The mags didn't get everything right. That's multiple technically but it's not numerous. Doesn't really matter at this point in any case. I don't know why she told him she loved him like he says she did. Maybe it was true at the time? Ill advised no matter what. I also don't know why he felt the need to tell Ali. I guess it's his way of hitting back. I'm sure CH would have loved for him to say it on the ATFR show so at least he didn't do that.

albean99 wrote:I think the notion that Kaitlyn slept with Nick multiple times keeps growing. We only know for sure about 2 times. The mags didn't get everything right. That's multiple technically but it's not numerous. Doesn't really matter at this point in any case. I don't know why she told him she loved him like he says she did. Maybe it was true at the time? Ill advised no matter what. I also don't know why he felt the need to tell Ali. I guess it's his way of hitting back. I'm sure CH would have loved for him to say it on the ATFR show so at least he didn't do that.

IMO I do not think he told all that went on with the two of them . I think he could of said so much more than he did . I really do not blame him for what he has said now. She has treated him like poop and he has been nothing but classy to both of them. She is trying to act like nothing happened between the two of them so why not tell the truth.