The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - FRC - ATFR- July 27th - Thread#3 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

MiaHawk wrote:Some random thoughts:

1) CH hyped this finale as "refreshing", right? (In the same way they hyped Ben F's finale as "most real" when he 'stormed off')...I actually think it was refreshing in that it showed a man who had fallen in (bubble) love far enough to bring him to the brink of proposing, and but once he was given the red light from K, Nick was able to compose himself quickly enough to speak some eloquent truths. I give him :alltens: for how he described the difference between 'in the moment love' vs 'true love'. Most refreshing thing I think I've EVER heard on this show.

2) The ring toss...First off, I would probably have done the same or worse. I assume he (gently) tossed the ring box over to his handler who was sitting across from him. You know, the one who is grilling him for a reaction and trying to get him to do something crazy good on film? The one who has been pretending to care about him on a show that has pretended to care about him? Nick stated that he was the world's biggest joke. I don't think he feels that way about himself. He is pretty comfortable in his own skin, IMO. What he was actually saying was that the show had succeeded in portraying him as a joke. The rose colored glasses were finally off. Hence why he said in People mag that he'd never return to this show ever again.

3) Nose-gate...Shawn definitely had some work done. Which is fine. If you want to tweek something for your own self esteem, go for it. He looks good. However, I just find the timing strange. If his nose bothered him so much (on a day to day basis in life) why wouldn't he want to get it fixed prior to going on the show? So, why get it done now?  What I believe to have happened is that he read SM comments and criticisms of his looks/nose and started to feel insecure about it, enough so to have work done. Either watching himself on tv made him dissatisfied with his nose or the SM comments made him dissatisfied with his nose. My guess is that thin-skinned Shawn was swayed by SM. And, IMO, that doesn't score him any points from me.

4) JK appearance...Wedding dress shopping segment: showed how snarky humor and cyber bullying can be easily confused. You make a snarky comment on SM about a stranger to other strangers, and without the benefit of the doubt and without context, it comes across as too harsh. I realize certain SM comments that K received were absolutely OTT (like the ones read on MTA) but the vast majority of SM comments (like the ones on this board) are snarky. So either, don't read them at all, K, or take them with a grain of salt.

5) Speaking of snarky...Shawn joking about K making out with Joe and Kaitlyn on JK naming the 'love making dogs' Clint and JJ....Shawn's Joe comment=snarky, but Kaitlyn's Clint/JJ comment=bullying especially since She KNOWS that Clint & JJ were edited strangely and have received their fair share of SM crap AND she KNOWS from MTA that Clint is not enjoying it. To me, that is KNOWLY throwing someone under the bus, aka bullying. That I was disappointed in seeing. Just confirms my belief that K will live in the moment and use anyone in the moment for her gain (laughter or lust). It is a sign of immaturity, and inconsideration, IMO.

6) MTP sank Nick...Found it very interesting that Leslie had such a negative opinion of Nick. 'Jealous, possessive'? (not even sure what she is referring to, personally) She got to 'know' him only through tv and media, so she judged him solely on his edit and his ATFR fiasco, IMO. Then, once she spoke to him, she got to see the real Nick, but it wasn't enough to erase all of the pre-conceived notions, IMO. When Leslie said about Shawn "that's a man", it was THE lightbulb moment for me. She said it, I believe, about Shawn's supposed willingness to forgive Kaitlyn's mistakes/shortcomings (ie that K slept with N). This contrasted with how Nick questioned (some say s*** shamed) Andi on last season's ATFR. Leslie wants "a man" for Kaitlyn, someone who will allow her her follies and frivolities, and who will suck it up and quietly suffer it. I was struck by how much Leslie appears to be a grown up version of K. I was also struck by how much K's dad reminded me of N and her stepdad reminded me of S. I found that telling. IMO

7) Really happy with how the board behaved last night. Regardless of our differing opinions, we kept it classy.

lexforlife wrote:The Shawn and Nick segment was stupid- Boo CH, tptb, boo.

Could I understand his frustration when she was talking to him after stopping his proposal? Absolutely. Did I feel bad for the guy? Yes and no. Yes in the fact that no break up is ever fun. Ever. It just isn’t. And a break up on national television is that much worse. However, I say no because this is a show. He knew going in what this show is capable of and what could possibly happen to him. He just went through this a year ago. The second you sign on the dotted line (especially for a second time), you are at the mercy of the producers. You have no say in anything. They will tell the story they want to tell no matter how badly it might trample on somebody’s feelings or emotions. Nick was this season’s victim, plain and simple. Sure, he can ask Kaitlyn all he wants afterwards, “Well why didn’t you just spare me the embarrassment,” or “Why just not let me go early,” etc. I’m here to tell you it’s because that’s not a decision for her to make. Of course she rambled on and gave him some convoluted answer that he still probably doesn’t understand, but the real answer, the one that she couldn’t say, is “the producer’s made me.” Absolutely, 100% that speech by Nick and almost proposal was supposed to happen and Kaitlyn couldn’t do anything about it. I don’t think Kaitlyn is a mean, vindictive person, and yes, she obviously cared about Nick. So no one that cares about someone else would put them through that unless they were forced to. You are a pawn in their game. I guarantee she didn’t want to hear Nick make that speech and almost propose, but she had no choice. She just couldn’t tell him that on the ATFR.

GuardianAngel wrote:CMIIW he didn't acknowledge that he had preconceived notions, he basically answered the question and justified why he didn't like Nick. It was because he got a bad feeling, things were being said in the house, didn't want to mention names, but something was not right.


Yeah, all good reason why not to like someone.   In the same breath he says there were a lot of things they didn't show of him, so now he looks like one big jealous guy.

Maggenzm wrote:

SueSt wrote:

OnePromise wrote:I was so proud of Nick tonight.  He did an excellent job of expressing himself in a calm, clear manner.  He handled all the things that CH tried to throw at him.  Two things stood out to me about the episode.

1.) His "greater than a moment" comment at the FRC.  I do believe that Kaitlyn loved Nick, but what he was trying to point out was that she did not share the same type of love for him that he had for her.  She had love for him in the moment... It was obviously fleeting. Contrastingly, he had love for her "greater than a moment"... Love to last a lifetime.  Kudos to Nick for stating that fact in such a succinct and poetic way!

2.) At the ATFR, Nick stated that she took something from him.  IMO, he was referring to the fact that she allowed him to propose.  He can not take those words back or un-say them.  She took that away from him.  I totally understand this way of thinking as a he basically told her that he was hers if she would have him.  He basically proposed without saying the last few words.  And she should have stopped him as soon as he arrived at the mansion.  It would have been the kind thing to do for her so called friend Nick.

OP,
I LOVE you, seriously.  But I'm surprised.  Weren't you the one suggesting a proposal would help Nick find closure.  What made you change your mind??

I am not a Nick fan, but I also though a proposal will bring him closure, and I think it did, bcs he didn't look beaten like he was last time, he looked more peaceful. Also, I think in time, when all settles, he is going to realize that K gave it a lot of though and cared (not IL, but loved) for him more than Andi did, "I never loved you". So, in all honesty, N earned my respect this season (last year, not so), and I think the Nick fans should start a movement "Nick for the bachelor"!!
I really believe being a contestant was never a good platform for N, his love redar is really off just like it was with Des, so having many contestants to chose from will give him an opportunity to adjust his love redar, in the end, he will know the "one". IMO, he will really do well as a lead, he is a successful 34 years old who is ready for marriage. So, come on yall, Nick for the bachelor!!!! And, yes, I am still a Shawn fan!

Beagle wrote:

umngirl wrote:Tossing the rings was ridiculous and very much something a child would do when they didn't get their way. I was just waiting for him to take off his mic and toss that too. Or if he was gonna toss them, go full out and toss them out the window. It would have been fitting for him.

I believe we have SCs of Kaitlyn throwing the pictures of Clint from their date into the fire and that was only after one date with no deep emotional investment. Kaitlyn led Nick on emotionally and physically throughout the entire show, all this while they were having discussions about letting him go if she wasn't feeling it. I thought he behaved extremely civilized under the circumstances.

bleuberry wrote:I hate to agree with RS, but... 
 

Could I understand his frustration when she was talking to him after stopping his proposal? Absolutely. Did I feel bad for the guy? Yes and no. Yes in the fact that no break up is ever fun. Ever. It just isn’t. And a break up on national television is that much worse. However, I say no because this is a show. He knew going in what this show is capable of and what could possibly happen to him. He just went through this a year ago. The second you sign on the dotted line (especially for a second time), you are at the mercy of the producers. You have no say in anything. They will tell the story they want to tell no matter how badly it might trample on somebody’s feelings or emotions. Nick was this season’s victim, plain and simple. Sure, he can ask Kaitlyn all he wants afterwards, “Well why didn’t you just spare me the embarrassment,” or “Why just not let me go early,” etc. I’m here to tell you it’s because that’s not a decision for her to make. Of course she rambled on and gave him some convoluted answer that he still probably doesn’t understand, but the real answer, the one that she couldn’t say, is “the producer’s made me.” Absolutely, 100% that speech by Nick and almost proposal was supposed to happen and Kaitlyn couldn’t do anything about it. I don’t think Kaitlyn is a mean, vindictive person, and yes, she obviously cared about Nick. So no one that cares about someone else would put them through that unless they were forced to. You are a pawn in their game. I guarantee she didn’t want to hear Nick make that speech and almost propose, but she had no choice. She just couldn’t tell him that on the ATFR.

remockered wrote:Milwaukee radio The Mix 99.1 interviewed Leslie this mornong, who said she was not impressed by Nick and told her daughter that after meeting Shawn.  However, I think this only further solidified Kaitlyn's decision, which I think was already made in San Antonio.