The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - FRC - ATFR- July 27th - Thread#3 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

eliza3 wrote:You see I actually think he did know on some level.   To me, keeping his hands in his pockets, never touching Kaitlyn (other than the first quick hug) spoke volumes to me.   He knew it was over IMHO

Because when one doesnt like him, one would always find things to dislike him more.
I think there always have other possibilities, maybe he could being nervous, it was the important moment in life. He has been pursuing this girl for months and they could start a life together after this. How was it not nerve wrecking?

 I would rather he is the guy you think he is, than to see a normal dude hurt by a supposed friend who said she loves him.

albean99 wrote:I think the notion that Kaitlyn slept with Nick multiple times keeps growing. We only know for sure about 2 times. The mags didn't get everything right. That's multiple technically but it's not numerous. Doesn't really matter at this point in any case. I don't know why she told him she loved him like he says she did. Maybe it was true at the time? Ill advised no matter what. I also don't know why he felt the need to tell Ali. I guess it's his way of hitting back. I'm sure CH would have loved for him to say it on the ATFR show so at least he didn't do that.

I don't understand why it's not OK for Nick to tell Ali K said she loved N if it's true. It helps the viewer understand why he felt more confident but also so shocked at the end. It also says something about Kaitlyn especially if you know why she said it.

If someone said they loved me and had sex with me... more than once, (plus other signs that would lead me to believe I was the one), only to pick someone else I would be confused. The info he shared with Ali helps to understand why N felt the way he did.

Is it not ok to share anything that might show K in a less than favorable light even when it's true?

peggy0221 wrote:

eliza3 wrote:You see I actually think he did know on some level.   To me, keeping his hands in his pockets, never touching Kaitlyn (other than the first quick hug) spoke volumes to me.   He knew it was over IMHO

Because when one doesnt like him, one would always find things to dislike him more.
I think there always have other possibilities, maybe he could being nervous, it was the important moment in life. He has been pursuing this girl for months and they could start a life together after this. How was it not nerve wrecking?

 I would rather he is the guy you think he is, than to see a normal dude hurt by a supposed friend who said she loves him.

And conversely when one likes him they will make excuses for his behavior.

I'm not making excuses for Nick's behavior, I don't think he needs anyone defending him. I'm just thankful that K didn't choose him in the end, and I'm glad she chose someone of her own class level in every sense of the term. I'm just sorry ABC wasted an entire season on a horned up, crass, insensitive, lying, immature twit. JMO

Rolly wrote:

albean99 wrote:I think the notion that Kaitlyn slept with Nick multiple times keeps growing. We only know for sure about 2 times. The mags didn't get everything right. That's multiple technically but it's not numerous. Doesn't really matter at this point in any case. I don't know why she told him she loved him like he says she did. Maybe it was true at the time? Ill advised no matter what. I also don't know why he felt the need to tell Ali. I guess it's his way of hitting back. I'm sure CH would have loved for him to say it on the ATFR show so at least he didn't do that.

I don't understand why it's not OK for Nick to tell Ali K said she loved N if it's true. It helps the viewer understand why he felt more confident but also so shocked at the end. It also says something about Kaitlyn especially if you know why she said it.

If someone said they loved me and had sex with me... more than once, (plus other signs that would lead me to believe I was the one), only to pick someone else I would be confused. The info he shared with Ali helps to understand why N felt the way he did.

Is it not ok to share anything that might show K in a less than favorable light even when it's true?

It's just my opinion. It's not necessary to agree. He's actually getting off pretty easy around here compared to Andi's season.

albean99 wrote:I think the notion that Kaitlyn slept with Nick multiple times keeps growing. We only know for sure about 2 times. The mags didn't get everything right. That's multiple technically but it's not numerous. Doesn't really matter at this point in any case. I don't know why she told him she loved him like he says she did. Maybe it was true at the time? Ill advised no matter what. I also don't know why he felt the need to tell Ali. I guess it's his way of hitting back. I'm sure CH would have loved for him to say it on the ATFR show so at least he didn't do that.

Actually he did, which is when Kaitlyn rolled her eyes at him. And it already came up during the rejection, so it's not like it was new information in any way. That's probably why US Weekly wrote about it a while ago already. He really didn't tell Ali anything new, just elaborated on things, since that's the point of an interview.

Kaitlyn probably told him ILY after sex, but how was Nick to know she says whatever pops into her head in the moment? Everyone knows the lead is not supposed to share her feelings. And now Kaitlyn said in a People interview (http://www.people.com/article/bachelorette-kaitlyn-bristowe-says-shawn-booth-was-always-the-one) that she told Shawn too after his HTD and it was referred to as breaking the rules. She's such a mess. She was breaking the rules all over the place, but when it came to sparing Nick some humiliation she couldn't be bothered to even try. That woman is not to be trusted. That's the sad truth of the matter.

I think Nick's a good guy at heart.  Yes, he has faults, but for the most part he's a good guy.  Just like somewhere deep down Kaitlyn and Shawn are, or I thought they were before all their dramatic, immature behavior took over.  

I try not to get attached or overly invested in these people or couples, learned my lesson years ago. So, I can't and won't say I'm a fan, of any of them. But I hate to see anyone kicked while they're down.  Yes, it's been 3 months since everything played out and Nick seems to have moved on.  But it had to be disheartening and somewhat hurtful to hear (now, all of being rehashed in interviews and at the AFTR) what you thought was a close friend and someone you fell in love with suddenly act as if you have the plague and wants nothing to do with you. Let alone the sudden rewrite and acting as if was all a joke and she never cared at all.  And in all honesty she didn't, or she would not have strung him along then or be treating him as she is now.  The continued jabs at him, JJ, Clint, (wasn't there one about Joe too?), basically those that showed they didn't like her behavior or questioned her actions, are not necessary.  It does nothing to win me over and/or make me like the couple more.  JMHO.

mindless wrote:

albean99 wrote:I think the notion that Kaitlyn slept with Nick multiple times keeps growing. We only know for sure about 2 times. The mags didn't get everything right. That's multiple technically but it's not numerous. Doesn't really matter at this point in any case. I don't know why she told him she loved him like he says she did. Maybe it was true at the time? Ill advised no matter what. I also don't know why he felt the need to tell Ali. I guess it's his way of hitting back. I'm sure CH would have loved for him to say it on the ATFR show so at least he didn't do that.

Actually he did, which is when Kaitlyn rolled her eyes at him. And it already came up during the rejection, so it's not like it was new information in any way. That's probably why US Weekly wrote about it a while ago already. He really didn't tell Ali anything new, just elaborated on things, since that's the point of an interview.

Kaitlyn probably told him ILY after sex, but how was Nick to know she says whatever pops into her head in the moment? Everyone knows the lead is not supposed to share her feelings. And now Kaitlyn said in a People interview (http://www.people.com/article/bachelorette-kaitlyn-bristowe-says-shawn-booth-was-always-the-one) that she told Shawn too after his HTD and it was referred to as breaking the rules. She's such a mess. She was breaking the rules all over the place, but when it came to sparing Nick some humiliation she couldn't be bothered to even try. That woman is not to be trusted. That's the sad truth of the matter.

Katilyn is a bit of a free spirit, and that is who both fellas fell in love with. Her way of dealing with intimate times - both what she does and what she says - is "in the moment" (by her own admission). That may not be everyone's ideal, but she was being herself and that apparently was what was attractive to both Nick and Shawn. I don't know how it can feel right to say ILY to 2 different guys in a short space of time, but I've never been the bach'ette either and I'm not Kaitlyn so neither Nick or Shawn would have been interested in my ILYs!.
There is a lot of finger pointing in every which direction, depending upon who is liked or disliked, but in the end all three of them knew what the show is (and 2 of them from previous experience) and they signed up for it. It isn't a show that encourages single dating or monogamy during the filming and it has production staff whose aim is to stir up controversy and "good viewing situations". It's very premise means that people will get hurt, but they agree to try anyway and they all appear to be moving forward in their lives. JMO

isittrue wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:My thing is why tell him she loved him multiple times and ask him multiple times if he would be ready to propose. That's something that Ali has said you're not allowed to do, so Kaitlyn was okay with going against production to give Nick false security and confidence? I just don't get it, but I've come to realize that Kaitlyn just is not a person who thinks before she acts.

How do we know that Kaitlyn was going against what production wanted - or going with what production wanted? Do we have any factual evidence of what production wanted her to do? Because Ali said so?

IMO Ali presents herself as the be all / end all source of knowledge of all things bachelorette. I think she certainly knew how things went on her own season but that was years ago and producers change, seasons change, and story lines for each season change.
JMHO

Plus Ali's main source is Nick.  Not saying Nick is lying but there are 2 sides to everything imho.

Main source of what? Knowing that Kaitlyn said ILY to Nick multiple times? That is true as she said it at the rejection (I forget the exact line, but it was something like "I meant it when I said ILY") and she didn't deny it when Nick asked her why she said it to him at the ATFR. There was also a US article that she said it, and they have sources from the show.

Source of the written rule that leads aren't supposed to tell people ILY until the final day? I mean....if every single lead in the history of the show hasn't told their F2 and below ILY, I'm going to assume that it's either a) having commons sense and manners and/or b) it's in the freaking contract. If producers forced Kaitlyn to tell Nick ILY, why haven't they forced the 29 other leads to do it? Leads who have just said "I'm falling in love with you" to F2 and beyond, have gotten SO much criticism from viewers. The only person I can remember that said ILY to their F2 was Sean, and that wasn't leading her on as it was on the final day and it was in a very different context.

chasingpavements wrote:

isittrue wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

How do we know that Kaitlyn was going against what production wanted - or going with what production wanted? Do we have any factual evidence of what production wanted her to do? Because Ali said so?

IMO Ali presents herself as the be all / end all source of knowledge of all things bachelorette. I think she certainly knew how things went on her own season but that was years ago and producers change, seasons change, and story lines for each season change.
JMHO

Plus Ali's main source is Nick.  Not saying Nick is lying but there are 2 sides to everything imho.

Main source of what? Knowing that Kaitlyn said ILY to Nick multiple times? That is true as she said it at the rejection (I forget the exact line, but it was something like "I meant it when I said ILY") and she didn't deny it when Nick asked her why she said it to him at the ATFR. There was also a US article that she said it, and they have sources from the show.

Source of the written rule that leads aren't supposed to tell people ILY until the final day? I mean....if every single lead in the history of the show hasn't told their F2 and below ILY, I'm going to assume that it's either a) having commons sense and manners and/or b) it's in the freaking contract. If producers forced Kaitlyn to tell Nick ILY, why haven't they forced the 29 other leads to do it?  Leads who have just said "I'm falling in love with you" to F2 and beyond, have gotten SO much criticism from viewers. The only person I can remember that said ILY to their F2 was Sean, and that wasn't leading her on as it was on the final day and it was in a very different context.

Andy told Bevin on their LCD. Des told Brooks on his FD. I am sure Kait is not the first or the last. Nick is just the first to talk about it. Should she have said it? No but it happened. She loved him but apparently loved Shawn more. Unfortunately, only one guy gets to be F1 .

HDDA did not say ILY to Bevin. He told her he was falling in love with her. There is a difference.

I'm trying to follow the discussion but I'm not getting anywhere. So the question is about "I love you" of Kaitlyn to Nick? ... Should she told him or not? ... Is that what gave him the confidence to believe or did he play the role of a victim? ... IDK & IDC
I'm interested more in whether she meant it or was she just "playing"/misleading?
I believe in the latter. Some believe in the former ... even if it only lasted that hot minute when she said it. Yeah ... such a love. (hold on to it) But the interesting part is not about the words... but what she did after they have been spoken... that's when things get really ... unattractive (JMO)... as a reminder how much of a Show this Game is.