The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - FRC - ATFR- July 27th - Thread#3 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

True, she could have took others but I believe the "script" wouldn't have been finish for her season. Now if TPTB ask Nick and not Ben to be the bachelor, Nicks story can continue. They really needed Nick to go to F-2 to redeem himself and get the public's sympathy. Remember, this board is/was the exception when it comes to Nick and his popularity. So the question remains, was it enough for Nick to get the support of the general public or will Ben get the gig?

I believe that there is tons of manipulation behind the scenes. I'm sure there was pressure on K to bring N to the F2 and allow him to propose/begin to propose. They always have the F1 and F2 speak to the lead at the FRC before the lead opens their mouth, so, in some ways N's compliments/profession of love to K wasn't much different than what has happened to many F2. It's always an awkward moment. I was sad for Nick just like I've been sad for many others throughout the seasons. To me, it is the exception to the rule and scarce that a lead will actually dismiss the F2 prior to his/her arrival at the FRC.

With that said, I do believe that K's 'live in the moment' approach, her rule breaking, and her lack of impulse control are what caused the most confusion and false confidence for Nick. He knew the rules meant she couldn't say "ILY", but she did it anyway (several times). He knew that the rules meant she couldn't spend extra time off camera with him, but she did it anyway. He probably never anticipated sex happening prior to the FD, but they did it anyway. All of these things built up a false confidence in Nick and got him to the point of proposing.

On any other season, these signs would have been a sure sign that Nick was the final one, but not with K. She threw all caution to the wind during this process and compartmentalized the relationships better than anybody I can recall. Unfortunately, she trampled on a few hearts. I can give her the benefit of the doubt for some of her actions while she was filming. She was tired, overwhelmed, confused. But what excuse can I possibly use to give her the benefit of the doubt now, when she continues to show little concern for others' hurt?

Nick eloquently expressed and took full responsibility for his falling in love on this show. He said he had 2 choices: to allow doubts to creep in and to put up walls, or to allow himself to keep an open heart and go for it. He went for it, and he does not regret it. He's being a mature adult about it. He loved and lost. I only wish I was seeing the same level of maturity from 'the winners'. I guess I'll just count the days until they implode under the weight of their own heavy consciences.

I will never understand how the "winners" are more sour grapes than the loser?

What the heck? You won!

Baffles me and shows me that for the "winners", winning and love (if it is that at all) is NOT enough at all!

peggy0221 wrote:I don't buy the RS theory about she has to kept Nick until he almost propose. This is Kaitlyn Bristow, who breaks rules and proud to be a rebel, no way she was listening to producer. 

If it was on her contract that 2 men had to be in the FRC, she could bring Jared, Joe, or even Cupcake.  I don't mean she should hurt anyone else by saying other guys name, but it really can be anyone else to be the F2. The reason why she brought Nick to the end was, she did feel for him BUT didn't care him enough as a friend, so she used his affection.

All my opinion, but it's what I think it went down.

My thing is that I can even buy that the producers manipulated/threatened her to take nick to the proposal site...I just don't see any possible excuse for the multiple ILYs and constantly asking Nick if he was ready to propose to her. Even Ali said that you are not allowed to say ILY before the final day, so Kaitlyn actually went against production rules to make Nick feel more confident and secure. It's especially cruel now that she's saying in interview that "there was no chance she would choose anyone but Shawn".

             

MiaHawk wrote:I believe that there is tons of manipulation behind the scenes. I'm sure there was pressure on K to bring N to the F2 and allow him to propose/begin to propose. They always have the F1 and F2 speak to the lead at the FRC before the lead opens their mouth, so, in some ways N's compliments/profession of love to K wasn't much different than what has happened to many F2. It's always an awkward moment. I was sad for Nick just like I've been sad for many others throughout the seasons. To me, it is the exception to the rule and scarce that a lead will actually dismiss the F2 prior to his/her arrival at the FRC.

With that said, I do believe that K's 'live in the moment' approach, her rule breaking, and her lack of impulse control are what caused the most confusion and false confidence for Nick. He knew the rules meant she couldn't say "ILY", but she did it anyway (several times). He knew that the rules meant she couldn't spend extra time off camera with him, but she did it anyway. He probably never anticipated sex happening prior to the FD, but they did it anyway. All of these things built up a false confidence in Nick and got him to the point of proposing.

On any other season, these signs would have been a sure sign that Nick was the final one, but not with K. She threw all caution to the wind during this process and compartmentalized the relationships better than anybody I can recall. Unfortunately, she trampled on a few hearts. I can give her the benefit of the doubt for some of her actions while she was filming. She was tired, overwhelmed, confused. But what excuse can I possibly use to give her the benefit of the doubt now, when she continues to show little concern for others' hurt?

Nick eloquently expressed and took full responsibility for his falling in love on this show. He said he had 2 choices: to allow doubts to creep in and to put up walls, or to allow himself to keep an open heart and go for it. He went for it, and he does not regret it. He's being a mature adult about it. He loved and lost. I only wish I was seeing the same level of maturity from 'the winners'. I guess I'll just count the days until they implode under the weight of their own heavy consciences.  

Every word was spot on

chasingpavements wrote:I don't know...I don't think that contestants know as much as we think. I remember Molly talking about how she didn't even know that the lead wasn't the one who planned the dates until she got with Jason. Jason also talked about how he had a lot of questions for Deanna about why she let him propose that he didn't get answered until he talked to her after the ATFR. I think that Nick probably knows that the producers WANT both guys to propose, but I also think he thinks/knows that the lead can fight the producers on that. I personally think that's what Andi did and that's what Nick expected Kaitlyn to do. In terms of him asking on ATFR, I think that's just a standard question they all ask - Ben asked, Jason asked. I didn't think much of that.

And, again, even if she had to let him propose, she didn't have to say ILY multiple times. Reading his interview with reality TV world, he actually talked about how Kaitlyn was the one to question him again and again if he was ready to propose. She didn't need to do all that. Ali even said that it's a written rule that you're not allowed to say ILY before the final day, so that was a Kaitllyn thing, not a producer thing.

Isn't it amazing that Kaitlyn broke every rule when she wanted to, but then she was too afraid to treat Nick with the friendship that she claimed to have for him. So I call BS on her having to do anything. She ruined a great foiler for goodness sake, and didn't feel bad for a second. So nope not buying that line of crap.

MiaHawk wrote:
great post snipped..
Nick eloquently expressed and took full responsibility for his falling in love on this show. He said he had 2 choices: to allow doubts to creep in and to put up walls, or to allow himself to keep an open heart and go for it. He went for it, and he does not regret it. He's being a mature adult about it. He loved and lost. I only wish I was seeing the same level of maturity from 'the winners'. I guess I'll just count the days until they implode under the weight of their own heavy consciences.  

JMO, they have to have actual consciences to fall under the weight. I don't see one in Kaitlyn, jury is still out for me on Shawn.

chasingpavements wrote:

peggy0221 wrote:I don't buy the RS theory about she has to kept Nick until he almost propose. This is Kaitlyn Bristow, who breaks rules and proud to be a rebel, no way she was listening to producer. 

If it was on her contract that 2 men had to be in the FRC, she could bring Jared, Joe, or even Cupcake.  I don't mean she should hurt anyone else by saying other guys name, but it really can be anyone else to be the F2. The reason why she brought Nick to the end was, she did feel for him BUT didn't care him enough as a friend, so she used his affection.

All my opinion, but it's what I think it went down.

My thing is that I can even buy that the producers manipulated/threatened her to take nick to the proposal site...I just don't see any possible excuse for the multiple ILYs and constantly asking Nick if he was ready to propose to her. Even Ali said that you are not allowed to say ILY before the final day, so Kaitlyn actually went against production rules to make Nick feel more confident and secure. It's especially cruel now that she's saying in interview that "there was no chance she would choose anyone but Shawn".

Isn't it funny how Kaitlyn does exactly what Kaitlyn wants except when it came to leading Nick on? Too convenient, JMO.

chasingpavements wrote:Then, that would have been fine! The show would have gotten a dramatic ending that they have never gotten before! The only person who wouldn't be happy with Nick leaving on his own would have been Kaitlyn, as she needed Nick to stroke her ego and she wanted to have fun before settling into a monogamous relationship.

Maybe just maybe this was TPTB's plan all along They saw early on that anybody that knows the show could plainly see that Kaitlin only had eyes for Shawn. They knew she had been in touch with Nick before the show and knowing there wasn't a chance in h*ll that Nick could turn down being on TV again they decided to bring him on to be "the other man" Something Shawn has tried to let us know all season. Kaitlin may have been told to keep him there until F2 if she didn't have strong enough feelings for any of the other guys and here's Nick wanting to go a 3rd round with TPTB.. @@ .If Nick had felt like he and Kaitlin had a strong connection before the show what honestly kept them from meeting up IRL??? There's just something about this season that has felt off to me. More than likely if we knew the whole truth we may never watch this show again..

Rosepetal wrote:IMO, once Nick came on the scene the script was for it to be the Nick/Shawn show and for Nick to propose at F-2. I believe TPTB gave Kaitlyn a lot of leave way but was firm on this and made sure Kaitlyn knew that this was the way it was going to be.

You said it much better than I did.

LoveDovez wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:Then, that would have been fine! The show would have gotten a dramatic ending that they have never gotten before! The only person who wouldn't be happy with Nick leaving on his own would have been Kaitlyn, as she needed Nick to stroke her ego and she wanted to have fun before settling into a monogamous relationship.

Maybe just maybe this was TPTB's plan all along They saw early on that anybody that knows the show could plainly see that Kaitlin only had eyes for Shawn. They knew she had been in touch with Nick before the show and knowing there wasn't a chance in h*ll that Nick could turn down being on TV again they decided to bring him on to be "the other man" Something Shawn has tried to let us know all season. Kaitlin may have been told to keep him there until F2 if she didn't have strong enough feelings for any of the other guys and here's Nick wanting to go a 3rd round with TPTB.. @@ .If Nick had felt like he and Kaitlin had a strong connection before the show what honestly kept them from meeting up IRL??? There's just something about this season that has felt off to me. More than likely if we knew the whole truth we may never watch this show again..

Okay, but I'm pretty sure that they couldn't force Kaitlyn to bang the guy and tell him she loved him multiple times. That's probably what felt off about this season - that the lead acted like a "guy", where she wanted to settle down with one guy but wanted to have her fun with the other.

Also, Nick said that Kaitlyn had made plans to come to Chicago if Britt won. He said that they both agreed that the timing sucked for them to start having feelings for each other, but he wasn't going to ask her to give up an opportunity like that (not that she would have). He said that in the last conversation he had with Kaitlyn before she left, he said he hoped Britt would win (which he also said on the video that Cathy/Danny put up back in March).

I was watching Entertainment Tonight this evening. Nancy O'Dell was interviewing Nick. Of the infamous ring toss, he stated that he tossed the ring to a producer who was sitting across from him "at more than arm's length." Given how far apart the seats are in a limousine, this makes sense. It also matches with previous speculation on this board.

Nick said that there was some "small" talk of him possibly being the Bachelor. I got the impression that he was trying to downplay it. Nancy is clearly is in favor.

She showed him some video from last night's show of Kaitlyn and Shawn being interviewed about him. It seemed to me that they were laughing at Nick. They were mocking Nick's ring toss. I thought their behavior was insensitive and highly questionable. IMO NIck handled Nancy's questions as gracefully as he could under the  circumstances.

I am truly at a loss as to why Shawn and *especially* Kaitlyn apparently can't behave more gracefully towards Nick. Why couldn't Kaitlyn say something sympathetic like, "I understand his disappointment"? Or, "I chose the man who is right for me, but Nick is a great guy and I'm sure he will find the perfect woman for him." Is it really too hard for them to be polite, gracious, and generous to the runner-up? More importantly, is Kaitlyn so eager to ingratiate herself with Shawn that she is willing to throw Nick under the bus? If this is the case, it does not bode well for the future health of their relationship.

I honestly haven't harbored bad feelings about this couple up until this week. Shawn's jealousy during the season has been beyond ridiculous, but I figured that would get ironed out once he got the girl. But IMO their behavior this week has been deplorable.

Amethyst wrote:I was watching Entertainment Tonight this evening. Nancy O'Dell was interviewing Nick. Of the infamous ring toss, he stated that he tossed the ring to a producer who was sitting across from him "at more than arm's length." Given how far apart the seats are in a limousine, this makes sense. It also matches with previous speculation on this board.

Nick said that there was some "small" talk of him possibly being the Bachelor. I got the impression that he was trying to downplay it. Nancy is clearly is in favor.

She showed him some video from last night's show of Kaitlyn and Shawn being interviewed about him. It seemed to me that they were laughing at Nick. They were mocking Nick's ring toss. I thought their behavior was insensitive and highly questionable. IMO NIck handled Nancy's questions as gracefully as he could under the  circumstances.

I am truly at a loss as to why Shawn and *especially* Kaitlyn apparently can't behave more gracefully towards Nick. Why couldn't Kaitlyn say something sympathetic like, "I understand his disappointment"? Or, "I chose the man who is right for me, but Nick is a great guy and I'm sure he will find the perfect woman for him." Is it really too hard for them to be polite, gracious, and generous to the runner-up? More importantly, is Kaitlyn so eager to ingratiate herself with Shawn that she is willing to throw Nick under the bus? If this is the case, it does not bode well for the future health of their relationship.

I honestly haven't harbored bad feelings about this couple up until this week. Shawn's jealousy during the season has been beyond ridiculous, but I figured that would get ironed out once he got the girl. But IMO their behavior this week has been deplorable.

Many folks here tried to give Shawn the benefit of the doubt during the season, like producer manipulation, alcohol, whatever it was.
And now, funny thing is, he proved to us that, he IS the jealous and possessive type of guy who thinks that is MANLY. *puke a little*

I can never understand why the couple feel bitter, why they hold grudes about Nick, specially Shawn.
Someone tried hard to fight for love, it's is a complement when you got the girl now?
Nick is cocky, arrogant, fame seeking, an all around bad person, but he LOST to you, buddy, just chill a little!

peggy0221 wrote:

Amethyst wrote:I was watching Entertainment Tonight this evening. Nancy O'Dell was interviewing Nick. Of the infamous ring toss, he stated that he tossed the ring to a producer who was sitting across from him "at more than arm's length." Given how far apart the seats are in a limousine, this makes sense. It also matches with previous speculation on this board.

Nick said that there was some "small" talk of him possibly being the Bachelor. I got the impression that he was trying to downplay it. Nancy is clearly is in favor.

She showed him some video from last night's show of Kaitlyn and Shawn being interviewed about him. It seemed to me that they were laughing at Nick. They were mocking Nick's ring toss. I thought their behavior was insensitive and highly questionable. IMO NIck handled Nancy's questions as gracefully as he could under the  circumstances.

I am truly at a loss as to why Shawn and *especially* Kaitlyn apparently can't behave more gracefully towards Nick. Why couldn't Kaitlyn say something sympathetic like, "I understand his disappointment"? Or, "I chose the man who is right for me, but Nick is a great guy and I'm sure he will find the perfect woman for him." Is it really too hard for them to be polite, gracious, and generous to the runner-up? More importantly, is Kaitlyn so eager to ingratiate herself with Shawn that she is willing to throw Nick under the bus? If this is the case, it does not bode well for the future health of their relationship.

I honestly haven't harbored bad feelings about this couple up until this week. Shawn's jealousy during the season has been beyond ridiculous, but I figured that would get ironed out once he got the girl. But IMO their behavior this week has been deplorable.

Many folks here tried to give Shawn the benefit of the doubt during the season, like producer manipulation, alcohol, whatever it was.
And now, funny thing is, he proved to us that, he IS the jealous and possessive type of guy who thinks that is MANLY. *puke a little*

I can never understand why the couple feel bitter, why they hold grudes about Nick, specially Shawn.
Someone tried hard to fight for love, it's is a complement when you got the girl now?
Nick is cocky, arrogant, fame seeking, an all around bad person, but he LOST to you, buddy, just chill a little!

I don't know. More and more this couple is reminding me of Jodi. Arrogant F1 and cold lead. However, what is even more damning in their case is that she knew Nick before filming started. She said she relied on him for advice and felt as close to him as anyone could without meeting. I won't even go into the sexting. She said they were friends. She was positively over the moon when he actually showed up. She had sex with him several times...initiated, gleefully by her and told him she loved him multiple times...all the while knowing that Shawn was the one. I don't know how one does that. Then we have Alf who bitches about being edited unfairly and how that makes people perceive him differently than he really is, yet he keeps harping on how he disliked Nick from what he and the other guys had seen of him on the previous season, refusing to even entertain the possibility that perhaps Nick's edit may have not shown his real persona...all the while actually refusing to talk to the man. The hypocrisy blows my mind. I don't know if he is just that much of an arrogant, jealous jerk who has been snowed by K or is just plain stupid. Most likely a combination of the two.

Watching their interviews is actually starting to make me mad. Alf, Kaitlyn and even her mother are trying to re-write history. Looking at some of their post show photos which I suspect are supposed to be cute and show just how much in love they are, all I could think of was...just get a room! You are two horny, unemployed people who can't see past your own nose. You may be the toast of the town now, but that won't last. Eventually the sex will get old and what will you have? I see an implosion bigger that last season, but with less class.

Thank you for letting me vent. UGH!!! Thank goodness for BIP.