The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - FRC - ATFR- July 27th - Thread#3 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

IMO there is a good chance they had some type of interaction after the show.
It's not like Nick didn't have her phone number.

happydays wrote:

Montaname wrote:I actually enjoyed this episode after all the goofy drama of the series.  In my opinion, she had feelings for both guys.  I don't think anyone forced her to carry Nick to the end, but in that end, her feelings for Shawn were stronger.  And I do think that both guys cared for Kaitlyn.  

I was kind of feeling sorry for Nick until he had his little tantrum and threw the rings and then played the martyr at the ATFR.  I have never understood why he thinks he should get special treatment on this show in either of his two seasons.  I had read that she let him propose and that might have been going too far, but she didn't and it was no worse than what the majority of leads have done in the past.  Get over yourself Nick.  

Both guys did fine with each other and it just was ridiculous that the show spent so much time trying to force a confrontation.  These guys may never have been friends, but I do believe the show force fed much of the animosity for drama.  Wish they would stop that kind of crap, but as long as the drama causes tabloid headlines and raises ratings, I suppose it will only get worse from here, although it is hard to imagine how.  

His interaction with K was really interesting at ATFR esp. as he was so supportive on social media of her until then. I was really expecting a less questioning Nick and more I support you etc etc to keep in line with his post show behaviour.

There is more to the story than we have seen on tv i think. Whether that be he is making a play for the bach, or K & N had post show interaction or they heard something about each other along the grapevine..

Yeah I sensed a tension and bitterness too. I applaud Nick for not going there but seems like he came close a couple times. I think having his family there probably was good for him.

Rolly wrote:K doesn't really have a good answer as to why she didn't let him go earlier.

relaxing wrote:And Kaitlyn shouldn't have had him at F2.

IMO the reason Kaitlyn didn't have a good answer is the same reason why Nick was F2 in the first place - that's where the producers wanted him (though IMO Kaitlyn could have taken him to F1 if she had wanted to). Kaitlyn can't give a completely truthful answer because that would uncover the degree of manipulation the producers use to get dramatic ending. IMO they didn't get as much as they could have because everybody played it pretty cool - but they were trying.
JMO

umngirl wrote:Tossing the rings was ridiculous and very much something a child would do when they didn't get their way. I was just waiting for him to take off his mic and toss that too. Or if he was gonna toss them, go full out and toss them out the window. It would have been fitting for him.

I believe we have SCs of Kaitlyn throwing the pictures of Clint from their date into the fire and that was only after one date with no deep emotional investment. Kaitlyn led Nick on emotionally and physically throughout the entire show, all this while they were having discussions about letting him go if she wasn't feeling it. I thought he behaved extremely civilized under the circumstances.

Some random thoughts:

1) CH hyped this finale as "refreshing", right? (In the same way they hyped Ben F's finale as "most real" when he 'stormed off')...I actually think it was refreshing in that it showed a man who had fallen in (bubble) love far enough to bring him to the brink of proposing, and but once he was given the red light from K, Nick was able to compose himself quickly enough to speak some eloquent truths. I give him :alltens: for how he described the difference between 'in the moment love' vs 'true love'. Most refreshing thing I think I've EVER heard on this show.

2) The ring toss...First off, I would probably have done the same or worse. I assume he (gently) tossed the ring box over to his handler who was sitting across from him. You know, the one who is grilling him for a reaction and trying to get him to do something crazy good on film? The one who has been pretending to care about him on a show that has pretended to care about him? Nick stated that he was the world's biggest joke. I don't think he feels that way about himself. He is pretty comfortable in his own skin, IMO. What he was actually saying was that the show had succeeded in portraying him as a joke. The rose colored glasses were finally off. Hence why he said in People mag that he'd never return to this show ever again.

3) Nose-gate...Shawn definitely had some work done. Which is fine. If you want to tweek something for your own self esteem, go for it. He looks good. However, I just find the timing strange. If his nose bothered him so much (on a day to day basis in life) why wouldn't he want to get it fixed prior to going on the show? So, why get it done now?  What I believe to have happened is that he read SM comments and criticisms of his looks/nose and started to feel insecure about it, enough so to have work done. Either watching himself on tv made him dissatisfied with his nose or the SM comments made him dissatisfied with his nose. My guess is that thin-skinned Shawn was swayed by SM. And, IMO, that doesn't score him any points from me.

4) JK appearance...Wedding dress shopping segment: showed how snarky humor and cyber bullying can be easily confused. You make a snarky comment on SM about a stranger to other strangers, and without the benefit of the doubt and without context, it comes across as too harsh. I realize certain SM comments that K received were absolutely OTT (like the ones read on MTA) but the vast majority of SM comments (like the ones on this board) are snarky. So either, don't read them at all, K, or take them with a grain of salt.

5) Speaking of snarky...Shawn joking about K making out with Joe and Kaitlyn on JK naming the 'love making dogs' Clint and JJ....Shawn's Joe comment=snarky, but Kaitlyn's Clint/JJ comment=bullying especially since She KNOWS that Clint & JJ were edited strangely and have received their fair share of SM crap AND she KNOWS from MTA that Clint is not enjoying it. To me, that is KNOWLY throwing someone under the bus, aka bullying. That I was disappointed in seeing. Just confirms my belief that K will live in the moment and use anyone in the moment for her gain (laughter or lust). It is a sign of immaturity, and inconsideration, IMO.

6) MTP sank Nick...Found it very interesting that Leslie had such a negative opinion of Nick. 'Jealous, possessive'? (not even sure what she is referring to, personally) She got to 'know' him only through tv and media, so she judged him solely on his edit and his ATFR fiasco, IMO. Then, once she spoke to him, she got to see the real Nick, but it wasn't enough to erase all of the pre-conceived notions, IMO. When Leslie said about Shawn "that's a man", it was THE lightbulb moment for me. She said it, I believe, about Shawn's supposed willingness to forgive Kaitlyn's mistakes/shortcomings (ie that K slept with N). This contrasted with how Nick questioned (some say s*** shamed) Andi on last season's ATFR. Leslie wants "a man" for Kaitlyn, someone who will allow her her follies and frivolities, and who will suck it up and quietly suffer it. I was struck by how much Leslie appears to be a grown up version of K. I was also struck by how much K's dad reminded me of N and her stepdad reminded me of S. I found that telling. IMO

7) Really happy with how the board behaved last night. Regardless of our differing opinions, we kept it classy.

sdmom wrote:

Rolly wrote:

umngirl wrote:Tossing the rings was ridiculous and very much something a child would do when they didn't get their way. I was just waiting for him to take off his mic and toss that too. Or if he was gonna toss them, go full out and toss them out the window. It would have been fitting for him.

I'm gonna cut him some slack....If I had been in Nick's shoes I can tell you I wouldn't have handled it nearly as well. There are so many things he could have done and said but didn't. I think he handled it really well in his conversation with K.  By the time he got to the car I think the reality of what she did sank in ....I'd be furious too.

Is there a manual for how to react perfectly when you are dumped? The man was hurt so his emotions were raw and real. He's a flawed human being like all if us. I would have been angry too and probably toss the mic as well because I am such a petty person!

ITA. We can't really compare a real world scenario on how to act to this show. In fact, many couples have probably done that in anger millions of times.

The thing I found laughable was how Shawn was totally fine with passing judgment on Nick based on what was seen on the show, but was totally bashing how he was portrayed on the show, and saying that wasn't who he was. Oh the hypocrisy.

Plenty of F2s have been rejected and didn't resort to throwing the ring. It just felt so silly and overly dramatic. Just setting it over on the seat next to him would have proved the point just the same.

And I sure hope Nick wasn't referring to a proposal when he said the line about her taking something from him. 1. Because he didn't propose. 2. Because he has proposed to someone before so it's not like she took his once chance at that from him.

:alltens: :alltens: :alltens:

MiaHawk wrote:Some random thoughts:

1) CH hyped this finale as "refreshing", right? (In the same way they hyped Ben F's finale as "most real" when he 'stormed off')...I actually think it was refreshing in that it showed a man who had fallen in (bubble) love far enough to bring him to the brink of proposing, and but once he was given the red light from K, Nick was able to compose himself quickly enough to speak some eloquent truths. I give him :alltens: for how he described the difference between 'in the moment love' vs 'true love'. Most refreshing thing I think I've EVER heard on this show.

2) The ring toss...First off, I would probably have done the same or worse. I assume he (gently) tossed the ring box over to his handler who was sitting across from him. You know, the one who is grilling him for a reaction and trying to get him to do something crazy good on film? The one who has been pretending to care about him on a show that has pretended to care about him? Nick stated that he was the world's biggest joke. I don't think he feels that way about himself. He is pretty comfortable in his own skin, IMO. What he was actually saying was that the show had succeeded in portraying him as a joke. The rose colored glasses were finally off. Hence why he said in People mag that he'd never return to this show ever again.

3) Nose-gate...Shawn definitely had some work done. Which is fine. If you want to tweek something for your own self esteem, go for it. He looks good. However, I just find the timing strange. If his nose bothered him so much (on a day to day basis in life) why wouldn't he want to get it fixed prior to going on the show? So, why get it done now?  What I believe to have happened is that he read SM comments and criticisms of his looks/nose and started to feel insecure about it, enough so to have work done. Either watching himself on tv made him dissatisfied with his nose or the SM comments made him dissatisfied with his nose. My guess is that thin-skinned Shawn was swayed by SM. And, IMO, that doesn't score him any points from me.

4) JK appearance...Wedding dress shopping segment: showed how snarky humor and cyber bullying can be easily confused. You make a snarky comment on SM about a stranger to other strangers, and without the benefit of the doubt and without context, it comes across as too harsh. I realize certain SM comments that K received were absolutely OTT (like the ones read on MTA) but the vast majority of SM comments (like the ones on this board) are snarky. So either, don't read them at all, K, or take them with a grain of salt.

5) Speaking of snarky...Shawn joking about K making out with Joe and Kaitlyn on JK naming the 'love making dogs' Clint and JJ....Shawn's Joe comment=snarky, but Kaitlyn's Clint/JJ comment=bullying especially since She KNOWS that Clint & JJ were edited strangely and have received their fair share of SM crap AND she KNOWS from MTA that Clint is not enjoying it. To me, that is KNOWLY throwing someone under the bus, aka bullying. That I was disappointed in seeing. Just confirms my belief that K will live in the moment and use anyone in the moment for her gain (laughter or lust). It is a sign of immaturity, and inconsideration, IMO.

6) MTP sank Nick...Found it very interesting that Leslie had such a negative opinion of Nick. 'Jealous, possessive'? (not even sure what she is referring to, personally) She got to 'know' him only through tv and media, so she judged him solely on his edit and his ATFR fiasco, IMO. Then, once she spoke to him, she got to see the real Nick, but it wasn't enough to erase all of the pre-conceived notions, IMO. When Leslie said about Shawn "that's a man", it was THE lightbulb moment for me. She said it, I believe, about Shawn's supposed willingness to forgive Kaitlyn's mistakes/shortcomings (ie that K slept with N). This contrasted with how Nick questioned (some say s*** shamed) Andi on last season's ATFR. Leslie wants "a man" for Kaitlyn, someone who will allow her her follies and frivolities, and who will suck it up and quietly suffer it. I was struck by how much Leslie appears to be a grown up version of K. I was also struck by how much K's dad reminded me of N and her stepdad reminded me of S. I found that telling. IMO

7) Really happy with how the board behaved last night. Regardless of our differing opinions, we kept it classy.

Really interesting to hear you say that because I did not watch but was hoping someone would comment on this.

[quote="umngirl"]Plenty of F2s have been rejected and didn't resort to throwing the ring. It just felt so silly and overly dramatic. Just setting it over on the seat next to him would have proved the point just the same.

Is it possible that his handler may have said, "Hey Nick, toss me the ring". And if this was said do you think Nick would have just sat there? TPTB live for discussions about the ring tossing. They probably give out bonuses for each of these ploys that "work".

sdmom wrote:

Rolly wrote:
I'm gonna cut him some slack....If I had been in Nick's shoes I can tell you I wouldn't have handled it nearly as well. There are so many things he could have done and said but didn't. I think he handled it really well in his conversation with K.  By the time he got to the car I think the reality of what she did sank in ....I'd be furious too.

Is there a manual for how to react perfectly when you are dumped? The man was hurt so his emotions were raw and real. He's a flawed human being like all if us. I would have been angry too and probably toss the mic as well because I am such a petty person!

First bold, that's what CH was trying to do. Nick answered all the questions, but he kept harping for more. They needed to fill the Nick time slot more than the happy couple who only got less than 10 minutes. They weren't about to let Nick go until they maximized their efforts. MF's tweet the other day confirms even they didn't know if they were going to succeed by using the word "potential drama". IA Rolly, he was more than cool calm collective considering.

Second bold. Love him or hate him, he made it very clear to let him go the second she knew, he was told multiple times I love you, had sex multiple times, (K mentioned what they did off camera and during overnight date) asked to promise to love her, picks out a ring, and is told it was real at the time. He was right on point by saying, no it wasn't real, and pretty much don't compare my real to your's because it's just not the same, paraphrasing. IMO I can't justify this is what he gets for going on a second season, when we very well know this could be any F2. That's what he gets for going after someone he was interested in. Shawn drew a heart around K's picture and said he was going after her because he was interested in her. If he was the F2, would I say that's what he gets for going after the girl?

MiaHawk wrote:Some random thoughts: *snipped*

1) ... but once he was given the red light from K, Nick was able to compose himself quickly enough to speak some eloquent truths. I give him :alltens: for how he described the difference between 'in the moment love' vs 'true love'. Most refreshing thing I think I've EVER heard on this show.

2) The ring toss...First off, I would probably have done the same or worse. I assume he (gently) tossed the ring box over to his handler who was sitting across from him. You know, the one who is grilling him for a reaction and trying to get him to do something crazy good on film? The one who has been pretending to care about him on a show that has pretended to care about him? Nick stated that he was the world's biggest joke. I don't think he feels that way about himself. He is pretty comfortable in his own skin, IMO. What he was actually saying was that the show had succeeded in portraying him as a joke. The rose colored glasses were finally off. Hence why he said in People mag that he'd never return to this show ever again.

5) Speaking of snarky...Shawn joking about K making out with Joe and Kaitlyn on JK naming the 'love making dogs' Clint and JJ....Shawn's Joe comment=snarky, but Kaitlyn's Clint/JJ comment=bullying especially since She KNOWS that Clint & JJ were edited strangely and have received their fair share of SM crap AND she KNOWS from MTA that Clint is not enjoying it. To me, that is KNOWLY throwing someone under the bus, aka bullying. That I was disappointed in seeing. Just confirms my belief that K will live in the moment and use anyone in the moment for her gain (laughter or lust). It is a sign of immaturity, and inconsideration, IMO.

6) MTP sank Nick...Found it very interesting that Leslie had such a negative opinion of Nick. 'Jealous, possessive'? (not even sure what she is referring to, personally) She got to 'know' him only through tv and media, so she judged him solely on his edit and his ATFR fiasco, IMO.
I was struck by how much Leslie appears to be a grown up version of K. I was also struck by how much K's dad reminded me of N and her stepdad reminded me of S. I found that telling. IMO

7) Really happy with how the board behaved last night. Regardless of our differing opinions, we kept it classy.

 
I've seen partially ATFR, so I didn't see Shawn's new nose that people talk about ... also haven't watched post interviews to be able to comment, but I have to agree with Mia on all the above. About Kaitlyn's family from the last sentence, I was wondering if that's the case, but since I haven't seen the FRC episode I'm glad someone confirms it. Thanks.

umngirl wrote:Plenty of F2s have been rejected and didn't resort to throwing the ring. It just felt so silly and overly dramatic. Just setting it over on the seat next to him would have proved the point just the same.

And I sure hope Nick wasn't referring to a proposal when he said the line about her taking something from him. 1. Because he didn't propose. 2. Because he has proposed to someone before so it's not like she took his once chance at that from him.

I think that when he was telling her "how much he loved her" and that he "didn't want to lose her" and she didn't stop him, he felt like he had the green light to propose. I think that is what he was referring to. I am glad she stopped him before he actrually proposed, but she should have stopped him much sooner.