Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #6

Haha, I was actually just trying to be funny because I joke about the fact that she's so afraid to mention his name on Periscope, that every mention must cause a fight. But, yes, I agree that she seemed disgusted and that something must have happened post-filming. And, I think whatever *it* is happened around SC, because she initially was very complimentary towards Nick in both her interviews and her initial blog about his appearance in NY.

Lucas15 wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:Her body language just gave it away that she was super uncomfortable talking about Nick and even saying his name was probably going to cause a fight with her fiance. I've seen a bunch of unspoiled people, who originally thought it was going to be Nick, change their mind after seeing the MTA. She got super defensive about Shawn and wanted to stop talking about Nick ASAP.

I agree that she was uncomfortable talking about Nick but I don't necessarily believe it was because she was afraid of starting a fight with Shawn - that's a bit of a stretch IMO - I just think something happened between her and Nick. Maybe she's disgusted with Nick - maybe she's disgusted with herself - but disgust is a big part of her emotions when it comes to Nick. She made one very strong expression on the MTA when talking about Nick - unfortunately (or perhaps intentionally) the camera was not on her face when she did it so all I could see was the side of her face for just a frame or two; I would love to have been able to see it fully.
JMHO

This is just a question for curiosity, but Lucas do you feel the expressions of disgust are because of Nick?  And her relationship with Nick?  Or could it be because of the fact that she has to address everyone's objections to Nick?  I ask this because she reacted in a very similar way on the show whenever she was confronted by someone questioning her decisions.  For example, her conversation with Josh regarding asking Nick to be on the show. She also looked that way when Ian questioned her intentions as well.  She even looked that way a number of times when Shawn questioned her during the show.  I see that Kaitlyn gets that disgusted look on her face whenever she is confronted with someone questioning her motives.  Whether it is regarding Nick or not.    

As a point of comparison, when the interviewers have asked about Nick in a non-confrontational manner (like Mario Lopez at the beginning of the season), she responded in a calm, caring and almost positive way.  Or even when the most recent interviews were done with Renee Bargh, she did actually smile when Nick was mentioned.  It just seems like rather than being a Nick issue, it is an issue with what is being questioned at the time.  If Kaitlyn's character, judgment or sincerity is being the subject of inquiry, she looks piiiiiiiisssssed as Nick would say.

I often wonder if they were asking supportive questions about her relationship with Nick, how would Kaitlyn's expressions change?

chasingpavements wrote:Haha, I was actually just trying to be funny because I joke about the fact that she's so afraid to mention his name on Periscope, that every mention must cause a fight. But, yes, I agree that she seemed disgusted and that something must have happened post-filming. And, I think whatever *it* is happened around SC, because she initially was very complimentary towards Nick in both her interviews and her initial blog about his appearance in NY.

I agree something happened plus it seemed like some are saying Jillian's tone towards Nick in her blogs changed too after hanging out with Kait. Doubt if we will ever know why though. Nick outwardly supports her on SM despite the last couple days faving not so supportive Shawn tweets but even that makes me wonder if Nick is completely supporting her or doing it to annoy her. I would like to think support but she does not seem like she's wanting it.

chasingpavements wrote:Haha, I was actually just trying to be funny because I joke about the fact that she's so afraid to mention his name on Periscope, that every mention must cause a fight. But, yes, I agree that she seemed disgusted and that something must have happened post-filming. And, I think whatever *it* is happened around SC, because she initially was very complimentary towards Nick in both her interviews and her initial blog about his appearance in NY.

I also think that whatever it was it at least reached a pinnacle post-filming. There was, IMO, a reason she unfollowed Nick and "purged" him out of her SM; we may never know what it was, or we may find out - Kaitlyn doesn't always know when to just shut up.
JMO

Oooh, peeps, this is Kait and Nick. We will find out. If there's anything to find out, we shall know about it shortly.

^^ Hahaha, agreed. Either they will tell us at the ATFR or TPTB will tell us as "sources" in a tabloid.

What I do not understand in all of this - Kaitlyn and Nick had the pre FS sex. And she kept Nick around - so there was the FD sex and most likely they stayed together after K met Nick's family.

With Shawn she is always sitting on a couch - and most of the time arguing or discussing something heavy. We really don't know much about Shawn (not that it matters) but I can recall his saying that it's never happened before but it was love at first sight, we've always been truthful with each other, I am now in love with you. We see plenty of S's incredibly ugly yelling, insecurity, scowling etc. Kaitlyn says a lot of encouraging things to keep Shawn there.

With Nick she seems to keep him there by having more occasions for sex. We know that means a lot to Nick - it was his hang up when Andi had FS sex with him. He felt Andi must have been in love with him.

Granted Kaitlyn might not have been able to see a long term future with Nick - even though "he has it all." But after what she has said about cyber bullying, trying to see the best of someone etc - how can she have 1) picked Shawn and 2) stayed with him?

Nick seems to be happy - maybe in just realizing that if K was in love with Shawn, then she wasn't the girl for him - or maybe there is more to come. Can't see how Nick could recover that fast (again he was misled and did not realize it - got to be embarrassing.

When Ben asked about K not telling him about the tryst - she says she was afraid Shawn would leave. We haven't seen the finale. Wasn't that a "whoops" moment? Does she want to give away the ending - or is she up to her trickery with Nick ?

OnePromise wrote:This is just a question for curiosity, but Lucas do you feel the expressions of disgust are because of Nick?  And her relationship with Nick?  Or could it be because of the fact that she has to address everyone's objections to Nick?

That's so hard to say - you can read emotions but you can't read minds to know what causes those emotions - that's a guessing game and you have to try and put some context to it. When the subject turns to Nick Kaitlyn shows emotional signals that seem to be best described as disgust. She showed that in an interview the day after episode 1 aired and she's shown it several times on the show itself. In a broad sense, that stone cold stare when she asked Nick not to tell anyone about the sex was a look of disgust, and she showed similar expressions on the MTA, and very noticeably when Nick told her about the Eskimo brothers.

IMO Kaitlyn does get "something" when she's challenged but it's not this same look that she gets when the issue relates to Nick - it's more of an anger than a disgust. Her reaction when Shawn challenged her (your actions don't match your words as an example) is completely different - her reaction then was "you're going to make me cry". Shawn is the only one who has challenged her that she has not fought back against - the closest she ever came was the RC where she sent Jared home when she said "You'll have to trust me - and I don't think you do" and that was really not a "problem" Shawn could do anything about - trust is not commanded or demanded - it's earned.

CHO wrote:What I do not understand in all of this - Kaitlyn and Nick had the pre FS sex.  And she kept Nick around - so there was the FD sex and most likely they stayed together after K met Nick's family.

Well unless I missed something (in which case I would hope that someone enlightens me what I missed) it's entirely conjecture on our part that Kaitlyn spent extra time with Nick after the MTP date (the fact they didn't show her leaving doesn't mean she didn't leave and they just never showed it) and it's even more conjecture that she had sex with him - again. For that matter, unlike sex with Nick in Dublin, the show hasn't shown that she had sex with anyone on the FD - that's between her and whoever she was with. I know that RS has said she had sex with all 3 but IMO he's just guessing - just as we are.

That said, Kaitlyn knew enough that she felt compelled to tell Shawn about having sex with Nick in Dublin - because she wanted to protect that relationship against any subsequent disclosure - and she had good reason to fear subsequent disclosure because of Nick's history. So even though I have called her stupid and think she is in many ways - about this issue she is not stupid; she knows she jeopardizes any chance of a relationship with Shawn if he finds out things from someone other than herself so I don't believe for a New York minute that if anything at all happened between her and Nick - or her and anyone else on the show - that she would fail to tell Shawn all about it before he would find out any other way. She has to be extra transparent when it comes to Shawn and it appears to me that she knows this.
JMHO

I get those who aren't fans of Nick, but to compare a man who has a job and focus and pretty much spends his time in Chicago or Wisconsin with family and friends the equivalent of Jef Holm.  Really?  I was a Jef fan, until I realized that he had no desire to help other people and started his constant trips and aimless wondering.  These two men could not be more different IMO and yes, I actually met Jef.  

Hate all you want but Nick is not jobless or aimless and Nick has actually done a few charity type events since Andi's season ended, so he isn't lying about caring about others either.

As for manipulative, that is fine, I don't see it, **edited**

I had hoped that Nick would just play nice at AFTR, but she is so obviously lying about their relationship pre-show and even what happened on the show, I can't blame him if he calls her out.  Should he really have to pretend that he is okay with her making him seem like a stalker who didn't understand a joke?  Why is it okay for Kaitlyn to lie, but not okay for Nick to call her out on it?

And BTW, I was not a fan of his asking Andi the question last year, even if she was a stone cold b*tch who provoked him.

Why do people say Nick is manipulative?
I really could not see it, at all.
OTOH, I see both F1 this and last seasons, are manipulative.

Please let's keep the topic on Nick.
I almost lost my dinner thinking about F.