Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #6

mindless wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:It's hard to tell because things were edited so much, but she did make that comment right after Ben asked her why she didn't tell him about the sex, but she did tell Shawn.

Yeah, she definitely called the sex with Nick a mistake on the show last night. I can't imagine how hurtful that whole segment with Kaitlyn must've been for him to watch. Once again he's the creepy stalker... And there's nothing he can do about it without being the jerk.

I went back and rewatched the interaction and CH actually redirected Kaitlyn because she answered the wrong question to Ben. She answered the rehearsed answer to the "why did you tell Shawn he was the one" question when Ben actually asked the "why did you tell Shawn and not me" question. She was confused on which question Ben had asked. Then she reanswered the question with the right response the second time. The first answer she gave was what she has been saying all along about telling Shawn he was "the one"... That is was a mistake. And then she answered about telling Shawn about the sex with Nick and not telling Ben after CH clarified for her what the question was.

It made much more sense when I rewatched it.

mindless wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:It's hard to tell because things were edited so much, but she did make that comment right after Ben asked her why she didn't tell him about the sex, but she did tell Shawn.

Yeah, she definitely called the sex with Nick a mistake on the show last night. I can't imagine how hurtful that whole segment with Kaitlyn must've been for him to watch. Once again he's the creepy stalker... And there's nothing he can do about it without being the jerk.

If this is true that she is now saying sex with N was a mistake then she is totally confusing me. I thought the being OK with the sex and needing to explore the physical aspects of a relationship (and talking about it) is what made her brave and honest. Where is the woman that talked about the double standard...OK for men to have and enjoy sex but not woman? How many interviews did she have where she said she didn't regret having sex but the timing was wrong. Now I need to go back and watch the second half of this crazy show to hear her say this. Quite honestly if she now is saying having sex with N was wrong she is totally revising history for some reason. What would be the reason for this? Very sad. JMOAA.

eirekay wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:At this point, the way that Kaitlyn is blantantly lying about her relationship with Nick and downplaying their connection (saying that "he (Shawn) knows it (sex)'was a mistake", saying she looked giddy because she was nervous, not excited, saying she only asked gun to come on as a joke, etc), I wouldn't be surprised if Nick was p*ssed. It's one thing to choose someone else, it's another to make a mockery of someone's love for you. So, although I'm still hoping that Nick is the better man and is just like "no questions, bye!", I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Nick moment we will all be talking about.

I felt like the "mistake" comment from Kaitlyn, combined with Kaitlyn saying that she and Nick joked about him coming on but it was just a joke, implying that Nick took it too seriously was classic revisionist CYA.  Where is the Kaitlyn that earlier said the mistake was just the timing, not the act of sex itself?  IMO, Kaitlyn took a step backwards and wasted the opportunity to take a stand on women controlling their own bodies by playing into all the drama rather than rising about it and owning her actions.  She threw Nick under the bus IMO.

Another example, where her words and actions don't match.

OnePromise wrote:

mindless wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:It's hard to tell because things were edited so much, but she did make that comment right after Ben asked her why she didn't tell him about the sex, but she did tell Shawn.

Yeah, she definitely called the sex with Nick a mistake on the show last night. I can't imagine how hurtful that whole segment with Kaitlyn must've been for him to watch. Once again he's the creepy stalker... And there's nothing he can do about it without being the jerk.

I went back and rewatched the interaction and CH actually redirected Kaitlyn because she answered the wrong question to Ben.  She answered the rehearsed answer to the "why did you tell Shawn he was the one" question when Ben actually asked the "why did you tell Shawn and not me" question.  She was confused on which question Ben had asked.  Then she reanswered the question with the right response the second time.  The first answer she gave was what she has been saying all along about telling Shawn he was "the one"... That is was a mistake.  And then she answered about telling Shawn about the sex with Nick and not telling Ben after CH clarified for her what the question was.  

It made much more sense when I rewatched it.  

OP thanks for re-watching it ...now I don't have to! :Woah-hoo:

OnePromise wrote:

mindless wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:It's hard to tell because things were edited so much, but she did make that comment right after Ben asked her why she didn't tell him about the sex, but she did tell Shawn.

Yeah, she definitely called the sex with Nick a mistake on the show last night. I can't imagine how hurtful that whole segment with Kaitlyn must've been for him to watch. Once again he's the creepy stalker... And there's nothing he can do about it without being the jerk.

I went back and rewatched the interaction and CH actually redirected Kaitlyn because she answered the wrong question to Ben.  She answered the rehearsed answer to the "why did you tell Shawn he was the one" question when Ben actually asked the "why did you tell Shawn and not me" question.  She was confused on which question Ben had asked.  Then she reanswered the question with the right response the second time.  The first answer she gave was what she has been saying all along about telling Shawn he was "the one"... That is was a mistake.  And then she answered about telling Shawn about the sex with Nick and not telling Ben after CH clarified for her what the question was.  

It made much more sense when I rewatched it.  

I rewatched it as well and I still think she was talking about telling Shawn about the Nick sex, she just wasn't answering Ben's question which was that why did she tell Shawn and not him. She just answered why she told Shawn (because she was almost afraid he would leave). Though it was kind of unclear, so could be how you interpreted it as well. But Ben did specifically ask why she told Shawn "about Nick" and when CH started clarifying the question he started with the whole "after you went too far with Nick" and she was nodding, so I don't think she was confused about that part.

Kaitlyn has admitted that she went too far with Nick because of the timing of it.  And the fact that it could have hurt her other relationships.  I don't see her changing her stance on this.  She has still maintained that she does not regret sex with Nick and never said directly that sex with Nick was a mistake.  Her actions following are a clear indication of this... She had sex with him at least one more time.

I also saw Kaitlyn's uncomfortable, defense of her pre show relationship with Nick last night very differently than most people on this site I think.

I saw Kaitlyn defending herself and her character instead of it being a statement about what she feels (felt) for Nick. I saw the guys call her out and question her motives. IMO, the guys asked (but likely not shown) about her pre-show relationship with Nick. (I believe this because in her answer she mentions the comment about him showing up in a limo on the first night. I don't think that she would bring this up on her own. One of the guys did, but they did not show it to us, IMO.) I see her getting nervous and defensive not because she does not like Nick currently, but because she felt like the guys were questioning that her intentions with them were not real. They were upset because she asked Nick to come on the season and then let him stay after four weeks of the show with them. They wanted to know why she did that if she was just planning to end up with Nick.

And her point was, she did not know that Nick was going to take her "joke" about showing up seriously. Did she like it that he came? Of course she did! Who wouldn't? But she did not go into the show thinking that Nick was going to crash the party. She "put it (Nick) out of her mind" and focused on her relationships with the guys on the show. That is until he did surprise her by taking her "joke" seriously and showing up. Then it all became real and she had to explore a relationship with Nick if there was even just a "sliver of a chance of ending up with him". And again, I don't see her downplaying her relationship with Nick to distance herself from him to appease Shawn. I see her doing this in order to explain her feelings/thoughts about Nick joining at the time. She was conflicted. She was "not thrilled" that she had this nagging feeling that he might be the one. But, she had to explore it.

Sharleen's blog explains this train of thought better than I could. A good read.

Her body language just gave it away that she was super uncomfortable talking about Nick and even saying his name was probably going to cause a fight with her fiance. I've seen a bunch of unspoiled people, who originally thought it was going to be Nick, change their mind after seeing the MTA. She got super defensive about Shawn and wanted to stop talking about Nick ASAP.

I do agree that she probably didn't mean to say that Shawn knows that sex with Nick was a mistake, because that would give the F1 away (although they basically have already), so I think that was just a bad editing job and her being confused.

I agree she was uncomfortable talking about Nick, but I believe it's because she just can't stand the guy anymore. Which to that I say too bad girl, your problem .

chasingpavements wrote:Her body language just gave it away that she was super uncomfortable talking about Nick and even saying his name was probably going to cause a fight with her fiance. I've seen a bunch of unspoiled people, who originally thought it was going to be Nick, change their mind after seeing the MTA. She got super defensive about Shawn and wanted to stop talking about Nick ASAP.  

I do agree that she probably didn't mean to say that Shawn knows that sex with Nick was a mistake, because that would give the F1 away (although they basically have already), so I think that was just a bad editing job and her being confused.

See, I also saw this another way.  It is our understanding that Kaitlyn chose Shawn so we see her being uncomfortable about talking about Nick.

But if she chose Nick, she might be uncomfortable about talking about Nick in this setting.  She is having to justify her pre-show relationship with Nick to a bunch of exes that "wasted" their time actually thinking they might have had a chance with her.  

She looks uncomfortable yes... Defensive and angry even.  But why does it mean that she is feeling those things because of Nick?  Maybe she is feeling those things because of those questioning her relationship with the guy she chose?  With those questioning her relationship with Nick?  

Maybe Kaitlyn is so over talking about her relationship with Nick because they are focusing on the wrong parts of it?  They are only talking about the scandal of how he got on the show and that they had sex so early.  No one is talking about the real reason she fell in love with him.  No one is getting to see her real relationship with Nick... At least not the good parts.  They are focusing on the negative parts.  Maybe that is why she is so defensive, uncomfortable and angry?

OnePromise wrote:I went back and rewatched the interaction and CH actually redirected Kaitlyn because she answered the wrong question to Ben.  She answered the rehearsed answer to the "why did you tell Shawn he was the one" question when Ben actually asked the "why did you tell Shawn and not me" question.  She was confused on which question Ben had asked.  Then she reanswered the question with the right response the second time.  The first answer she gave was what she has been saying all along about telling Shawn he was "the one"... That is was a mistake.  And then she answered about telling Shawn about the sex with Nick and not telling Ben after CH clarified for her what the question was.  

It made much more sense when I rewatched it.  

Your interpretation of this segment is the same as mine and I think you've articulated it very well.

OnePromise wrote:I also saw Kaitlyn's uncomfortable, defense of her pre show relationship with Nick last night very differently than most people on this site I think.  

I saw Kaitlyn defending herself and her character instead of it being a statement about what she feels (felt) for Nick.  I saw the guys call her out and question her motives.  IMO, the guys asked (but likely not shown) about her pre-show relationship with Nick.  (I believe this because in her answer she mentions the comment about him showing up in a limo on the first night.  I don't think that she would bring this up on her own.  One of the guys did, but they did not show it to us, IMO.) I see her getting nervous and defensive not because she does not like Nick currently, but because she felt like the guys were questioning that her intentions with them were not real.  They were upset because she asked Nick to come on the season and then let him stay after four weeks of the show with them.  They wanted to know why she did that if she was just planning to end up with Nick.  

And her point was, she did not know that Nick was going to take her "joke" about showing up seriously.  Did she like it that he came?  Of course she did! Who wouldn't? But she did not go into the show thinking that Nick was going to crash the party.  She "put it (Nick) out of her mind" and focused on her relationships with the guys on the show.  That is until he did surprise her by taking her "joke" seriously and showing up.  Then it all became real and she had to explore a relationship with Nick if there was even just a "sliver of a chance of ending up with him".  And again, I don't see her downplaying her relationship with Nick to distance herself from him to appease Shawn.  I see her doing this in order to explain her feelings/thoughts about Nick joining at the time.  She was conflicted.  She was "not thrilled" that she had this nagging feeling that he might be the one.  But, she had to explore it.  

Sharleen's blog explains this train of thought better than I could.  A good read.  

Again I think this articulates well those questions about her preshow relationship with Nick.

Everybody seems to think that's a big deal and something Shawn didn't / doesn't know about but the more that relationship with Nick seems to be something she would want to explore, the more Shawn is, IMO, likely to understand why she had sex with him so I think that would be one of the first things Kaitlyn explained to Shawn once they could talk in private - and they've now had a lot of time to talk in private.

bleuberry wrote:I agree she was uncomfortable talking about Nick, but I believe it's because she just can't stand the guy anymore. Which to that I say too bad girl, your problem .

THIS. She looked disgusted imo, not fearful of Mean Scary Shawn sitting at home. If anything, Shawn probably feels totally fine- he's f1 and Kait is totally on his side.

chasingpavements wrote:Her body language just gave it away that she was super uncomfortable talking about Nick and even saying his name was probably going to cause a fight with her fiance. I've seen a bunch of unspoiled people, who originally thought it was going to be Nick, change their mind after seeing the MTA. She got super defensive about Shawn and wanted to stop talking about Nick ASAP.

I agree that she was uncomfortable talking about Nick but I don't necessarily believe it was because she was afraid of starting a fight with Shawn - that's a bit of a stretch IMO - I just think something happened between her and Nick. Maybe she's disgusted with Nick - maybe she's disgusted with herself - but disgust is a big part of her emotions when it comes to Nick. She made one very strong expression on the MTA when talking about Nick - unfortunately (or perhaps intentionally) the camera was not on her face when she did it so all I could see was the side of her face for just a frame or two; I would love to have been able to see it fully.
JMHO