Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #5

julychild wrote:

happydays wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:Re Shawn and the possibility of SCgatefoiler.

IMO there is no way in the world Shawn is going to get in bed, without a shirt on, with Kaitlyn, to foiler a season for Nick's benefit.

^^This is what I cannot get past.
Everything else, I can see it as a foiler possibility, but this really has put all my Kanick hopes dead in the water.

It's for the best I think though. I don't see Kanick surviving in the long-term -- they are just worlds apart in many aspects.

I beg to disagree, happy. From my point of view I see Nick and Jared as the two guys Kaitlyn can be her true self with, and it seems being herself is important to her. She just never developed romantic feelingso for Jared. There are similarities between her and Nick that makes them fit, and as Sharleen  noted in her blog, they "understand" each other. They are different and yet alike at the same time.

That's fair, I respect your opinion

Their tweets definitely show that their thoughts about the process are in sync which I would think would be very important for any relationship to come out of this show.

julychild wrote:

happydays wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:Re Shawn and the possibility of SCgatefoiler.

IMO there is no way in the world Shawn is going to get in bed, without a shirt on, with Kaitlyn, to foiler a season for Nick's benefit.

^^This is what I cannot get past.
Everything else, I can see it as a foiler possibility, but this really has put all my Kanick hopes dead in the water.

It's for the best I think though. I don't see Kanick surviving in the long-term -- they are just worlds apart in many aspects.

I beg to disagree, happy. From my point of view I see Nick and Jared as the two guys Kaitlyn can be her true self with, and it seems being herself is important to her. She just never developed romantic feelingso for Jared. There are similarities between her and Nick that makes them fit, and as Sharleen  noted in her blog, they "understand" each other. They are different and yet alike at the same time.

I agree with that. I kind of feel like Nick is the Chris of the season, maybe not who she wants but the person who's right for her. I still think that Nick and Kaitlyn are very different people (in the moment vs. analytical and always thinking ahead), which might causes problems in the long-term. That said, I feel like Kaitlyn is always trying to get Shawn's approval whereas she can just relax and be herself with Nick and Jared. I saw that dynamic with Deanna/Graham, Ali/Frank, and Des/Brooks. I think it's partly wanting that chase and challenge, but I worry about what happens when either that chase goes away or you find out the person is ALWAYS making you chase.

^ The chase is certainly exciting. I think that is what Kaitlyn liked that Nick came on the show - was chasing her. But this also made Shawn lose his marbles a bit and that can be just as exciting to a girl.

To me, the Kaitlyn that we saw on SM before the bachelor and her cleanup of her SM was a girl who liked big, masculine men.  Even her friend who made fun of CS on SM during the bachelor season, most posters here who know hockey well said he is a real douche bag.  

While Nick touched her on a different level, much like last season's lead, I think Kaitlyn reverted to going with what has always been her type, the big, masculine, kind of douchey (IMO) guy.  Her F1 fits all three of those in my opinion.  Nick is a lot of things, I would give him masculine, but he isn't big and he isn't douchey in that alpha grunting caveman kind of a way.

I honestly think it is the bachelorettes who can let go of their type who seem to do the best out of the show.  Ryan was not Trista's normal type, Charlie was.  JP wasn't Ashley's usual type, hence the problem at MTP. Chris was not the type that Des had gone for either, Brooks was.  But in all three cases the women went deeper and found a good match, but not go with what they had liked, but hadn't worked.

Meredith, DeAnna (if we count Graham), Jillian, and Andi all went for their type.  In the end that wasn't what was good for them.

Now Ali, she is a bit an outlier and to me the two bachelorettes who were former F1s just don't count.

I see Kaitlyn reverting to her type and she is thrilled with her choice.  I don't wish for any couple to break up, so I hope that they work out, but I fear that she may end up in the pile who went with their type.  JMO

That being said, I don't think that Nick and Kaitlyn would have lasted long term, so I am not heartbroken by the spoiler at all.

stuckinsc wrote:To me, the Kaitlyn that we saw on SM before the bachelor and her cleanup of her SM was a girl who liked big, masculine men.  Even her friend who made fun of CS on SM during the bachelor season, most posters here who know hockey well said he is a real douche bag.  

While Nick touched her on a different level, much like last season's lead, I think Kaitlyn reverted to going with what has always been her type, the big, masculine, kind of douchey (IMO) guy.  Her F1 fits all three of those in my opinion.  Nick is a lot of things, I would give him masculine, but he isn't big and he isn't douchey in that alpha grunting caveman kind of a way.

I honestly think it is the bachelorettes who can let go of their type who seem to do the best out of the show.  Ryan was not Trista's normal type, Charlie was.  JP wasn't Ashley's usual type, hence the problem at MTP. Chris was not the type that Des had gone for either, Brooks was.  But in all three cases the women went deeper and found a good match, but not go with what they had liked, but hadn't worked.

Meredith, DeAnna (if we count Graham), Jillian, and Andi all went for their type.  In the end that wasn't what was good for them.

Now Ali, she is a bit an outlier and to me the two bachelorettes who were former F1s just don't count.

I see Kaitlyn reverting to her type and she is thrilled with her choice.  I don't wish for any couple to break up, so I hope that they work out, but I fear that she may end up in the pile who went with their type.  JMO

That being said, I don't think that Nick and Kaitlyn would have lasted long term, so I am not heartbroken by the spoiler at all.

It can sometimes take a while for people to realize that one's type may be what one wants but not what one needs. And as much as the physical connection is important, Kaitlyn's emphasis that it is a dealbreaker makes me think that, in the long run, it doesn't matter who her F1 is because the physical connection always wanes and diminishes.

Thus, to me, Nick was almost lucky that he had pre-FS coitus because the physical connection was there but it didn't last and wasn't enough and wouldn't be enough in the long run anyway. As much as Nick is termed a "physical guy" he is equally if not more, a cerebral/analytical one too. I just don't think Nick would have been happy in the longterm either. So to me, rather the "what if" that wasn't meant to be so he can focus on finding someone who actually is his type -- because I don't think he has found her yet and sometimes the best thing after two times is to let her find him and for him to stop searching. jmo

Has anyone brought up the age angle? I know that Nick is maybe 34 and Kaitlyn 30 now. Really the same stage of life. How old is Shawn? 26?

Shawn is 28. I also don't think Kait is that mature, so I think they are a better age combo than K&N personally

TopShelf wrote:Has anyone brought up the age angle?  I know that Nick is maybe 34 and Kaitlyn 30 now.  Really the same stage of life.  How old is Shawn?  26?

He was 28 on the show, but I don't know if he's had a recent birthday. I actually feel like Kaitlyn is a bit immature for her age. It blows my mind that she and Whitney are almost exactly the same age, down to the same month.

eliza3 wrote:I don't think they show Nick's response to their escapades because it is Kaitlyns "journey" not Nick's.  

This is a really good point, Eliza, however I was thinking how they interviewed Claire after the ocean sex with JP. They completely ignored Nick's interviews, which no doubt they have, but didn't air. I wonder why?

happydays wrote:Shawn is 28. I also don't think Kait is that mature, so I think they are a better age combo than K&N personally

Good point. Age is just a number. Don't worry topshelf. Nick will be interviewed no doubt about all the sex at the ATFR. Hopefully he (they) keep it classy. I think RS's source on Nick is right this time. Nick has moved on romantically.

I think that would be my ideal ending - for Nick to pull a Chantal and just be like "I'm happy for you and wish you the best, and I've found the love of my life outside of this crazy show". It probably won't happen because I know TPTB are going to do everything in their power to have an explosive ATFR, but I'm still hoping.

chasingpavements wrote:
I agree with that. I kind of feel like Nick is the Chris of the season, maybe not who she wants but the person who's right for her. I still think that Nick and Kaitlyn are very different people (in the moment vs. analytical and always thinking ahead), which might causes problems in the long-term. That said, I feel like Kaitlyn is always trying to get Shawn's approval whereas she can just relax and be herself with Nick and Jared. I saw that dynamic with Deanna/Graham, Ali/Frank, and Des/Brooks. I think it's partly wanting that chase and challenge, but I worry about what happens when either that chase goes away or you find out the person is ALWAYS making you chase.  

From where I sit, Kaitlyn and Shawn are both chasing each other. I see two passionate people doing a bit of pushing/pulling with one another.  Shawn has basically offered himself to her on a silver platter and she has all of the control. Then he calls her out here and there to keep her in check and she is (maybe) secretly loviing it? I see equals doing "the dance".
Kaitlyn is a bit of a spitfire who probably likes it when a man calls her out. When you see her interact with Kupah, Clint, & Ian, the girl doesn't hold back. She speaks her mind and she may really relate to Shawn in that sense....and respect where he might be coming from.