Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #5

SueSt wrote:I don't have a problem with the question (or any question for that matter) just with the possibility that K allowed Nick to plan and execute a proposal when she knew that she would turn him down.  IMO, there are other ways to get your questions answered and fully express one's thoughts.  Also, we discussed this in Nick's fan thread but I am hoping/assuming that K&N discussed the possibility of an engagement privately in the FS.  Based on what happened to each of them in their prior season's, I can not imagine a scenario where this question did not come up....
And if this is the case, it brings up a lot of questions if the spoilers are right:
Was K still considering Nick?  Did she lie about her interest?  Did Nick actually learn that he was not going to be F1 and agree, for whatever reasons, to play along??  (hard to believe this one)  I don't know, but I'm very interested to see how this all plays out...

ITA Stuck & Sue. :Nod:
I also notice Nick's pragmatism and what some described as "he's not as into Kaitlyn as he was into Andi" I see as Nick being very cautious about his feelings to not get caught in the bubble, less serious & more playful, more daring & without setting expectations, more carefree and openly considering of others' feelings in play (he is aware of Shawn's role).

All good questions Sue.

^ I posted in the thread somewhere but if the L&S article is to be believed Kaitlyn was still confused in the end up until FRC. I can see that being the case. If anything, the crazy journey and Nick coming on mid-way through and her choosing to take him to F2 she definitely did have a connection... a strong one. But I also think Shawn's constant walls going up, doubts, and confrontations probably aided in her keeping Nick because he was a sure thing. Who knows if she saw a future with both but didn't know if Shawn was 100% and so Nick was the other option? I could see Shawn debating until FRC day and then being sure and Kaitlyn being told that Shawn will propose and so she knew then that she was going to choose him instead? It's the only thing I can come up with other than machinations of TPTB.

Last year Nick in his last ITMs/PIs, on the day of LCD, said that he has no intention to propose if he doesn't get some confirmation from the Bette that he is the last guy standing ... I don't know the exact words and have no desire to rewatch ... but the bottom-line was that he would not go through if he wouldn't get a reassurance he is really IT for her ...
So the question is, what has change this time? ... Did he not need a reassurance, because he believed he got it ... or he was OK with the shot in the dark?

From his current behavior I can imagine his attitude changed and maybe his approach to FRC/proposal too. But considering his very analytical mind that constantly contemplates I also imagine he knew the risk, he knew the possibility and was aware of his chances.

^ I think even if Kaitlyn gave Nick confirmation to propose it will only emphasize how confused "living in the moment" she was throughout the whole thing. Even her F1 has been saying again and again that Kaitlyn's actions don't match her words.

Well, if Nick asked Kaitlyn about proposing and she said please do then Nick found out at FRC that what F1 has repeatedly said about Kaitlyn was true: on FRC her actions didn't match her words.

The last time F2 Bach made it to FRC, IMO...was a set up to be next bachelor. He really was the only option that year.Got to have the heartbroke scene.

K knew what he went thru last year, she knows how deep N's emotions run ...and she feels she's responsible for all their pain so far....she takes N to FRC just to feel even worse about herself...I dunno folks...I just dunno. I just can't buy ...she had no choice other than it leads to another season of one of F2...whoever that is. Of course, he could have said...hell no!

Sometimes even if you know you're behind in the game it's worth throwing a "Hail Mary" pass. If you don't try that you know you'll lose the game. If you try it, you have a chance.

I'm sorry..I feel like a spammer today...but its has stormed all afternoon and reading here is addictive. I will say this...if she makes S wait in that var an hour before FRC being F1, when she first lsys eyes on him....she better be shouting you are the one as dramatic as he is when he's left to ponder!

mprssdbyu wrote:The last time F2 Bach made it to FRC, IMO...was a set up to be next bachelor. He really was the only option that year.Got to have the heartbroke scene.

K knew what he went thru last year, she knows how deep N's emotions run ...and she feels she's responsible for all their pain so far....she takes N to FRC just to feel even worse about herself...I dunno folks...I just dunno. I just can't buy ...she had no choice other than it leads to another season of one of F2...whoever that is. Of course, he could have said...hell no!

I think that every time they've had a F2/F3 propose since Deanna's season, they wanted him to be the Bachelor (Jason, Reid, Ben), even though it was pretty clear who the lead wanted. I think that the reason that they had Nick propose this year was because it's just too anti-climatic to have two episodes of only Nick vs. Shawn to end with Kaitlyn just letting Nick go, in exactly the same way Andi did last year. I also feel like this was the closest since Jason's season, where the lead really was conflicted between the F2. I can buy that TPTB and Kaitlyn were able to convince Nick that he had a real shot. Didn't the article say that Shawn was waiting for an hour while Kaitlyn was rejecting Nick? That seems believable to me, and an hour is probably more than the typical time for a rejection. I feel like some tears on both sides will be shed during that rejected proposal.

mprssdbyu wrote:I'm sorry..I feel like a spammer today...but its has stormed all afternoon and reading here is addictive. I will say this...if she makes S wait in that var an hour before FRC being F1, when she first lsys eyes on him....she better be shouting you are the one as dramatic as he is when he's left to ponder!

I don't think it was Kaitlyn who made him wait - it was the producers who picked him up early - intentionally.

JMO - because that's how they think.

chasingpavements wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:The last time F2 Bach made it to FRC, IMO...was a set up to be next bachelor. He really was the only option that year.Got to have the heartbroke scene.

K knew what he went thru last year, she knows how deep N's emotions run ...and she feels she's responsible for all their pain so far....she takes N to FRC just to feel even worse about herself...I dunno folks...I just dunno. I just can't buy ...she had no choice other than it leads to another season of one of F2...whoever that is. Of course, he could have said...hell no!

I think that every time they've had a F2/F3 propose since Deanna's season, they wanted him to be the Bachelor (Jason, Reid, Ben), even though it was pretty clear who the lead wanted. I think that the reason that they had Nick propose this year was because it's just too anti-climatic to have two episodes of only Nick vs. Shawn to end with Kaitlyn just letting Nick go, in exactly the same way Andi did last year. I also feel like this was the closest since Jason's season, where the lead really was conflicted between the F2. I can buy that TPTB and Kaitlyn were able to convince Nick that he had a real shot. Didn't the article say that Shawn was waiting for an hour while Kaitlyn was rejecting Nick? That seems believable to me, and an hour is probably more than the typical time for a rejection. I feel like some tears on both sides will be shed during that rejected proposal.

IA with this assessment but also think that Nick is in the running for next Bachelor but won't get it because of Ben H and similar guys. Most of the other guys are not Bachelor material and Ben H, Ben Z and Dr C are the only ones from the remaining guys on the show that have a shot. CH said he had four guys off the top of his head from the remaining guys and since the others were gone or went to film BIP that means Nick was one of those four. Again, don't see him getting it with someone like Ben H being F3 and getting to speak at MTA and having a "marriage material" edit. jmo

Oh at this point, I don't think she's into making someone wait on purpose either. Def TPTB antics
..just saying...she better spill the goods asap to him...I don't want his drama (that kind) at FRC. He was so sweet during their first 1/1. I'm ready to get back there! I liked that guy.

Hotmomma wrote:

mprssdbyu wrote:I tell ya Snapchat saved me a lot of posts. Lol, because I see Nick as the warrior fighting for her...him against them all fighting to get to know her, too..yet having to eat and sleep among them ...slow and steady..talking for months before show...Shawn was the one days after meeting her according to him (he was the one)..how high did she say with her hands,  back to Nick...she shuts off when anything regarding just feelings comes up in interviews regarding N and she would not discuss N with MeAndi who we know dislikes him more than alot...I see that as standing in Nick's corner if only during a dinner date...yeah, snapchat saved me a great deal of wondering how this thing ends!

if it wasn't for that snap chat.I would totally believe it was Nick..Even post show!

Same here. I don't know how pissed TPTB are about snapchat but they had a huge KABOOM coming for them that is now just a foregone conclusion. They would have had RS stumped and many viewers including myself. None of the other 'noise' (blogs, interviews, RS etc) would have derailed my belief that Nick could be F1. Once that snapchat vid/pics surfaced though I had no choice but to accept that my K/N shipping would not have my desired ending. It's too bad because their chemistry is off the charts. Maybe it is the demeanor/personality of the F1 but I do not have the same warm fuzzies about her relationship with him. JMO