The Bachelorette Season 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - Discussion #2

I actually think that Kaitlyn's behavior made Nick more likely to propose even with his doubts because he was overconfident last year and read the lead's behavior to mean she was going to choose him.

So I think that being on the show before actually hindered Nick's ability to read Kaitlyn accurately.

It is not that he is naive, quite the opposite, it was his previous experience that likely led him to read Shawn's overconfidence as a sign that Shawn was like him last year and falling for the bubble.

It's why, imo, Nick would view his relationship like real life rather than the typical bachelor bubble rushed process and see it as being something that started in real life (on SM) and thus more "real".

It's also why, imo, Nick is no doubt going to be blindsided at FRC because I think he did see red flags in his relationship with Kaitlyn but his past experience was what convinced him that those red flags were a good sign he would be F1 rather than a bad one since he didn't see any red flags last year.

That and anyone, even Nick, would find it incredulous to think that he would be put in the F2 spot again. Not being let go pre-FRC likely was the little sign he was hoping for to think he was F1. jmo

I love it. So Kaitlyn spent all day in Dublin drinking not because she wanted to, but because TPTB had told her she needed to have sex with Nick that date, so she was using the liquid courage?

Could it be that both of Nick's dates involved going to pubs in Ireland and that party girl Kaitlyn likes to drink? She admitted being fairly drunk on the camping trip on CS's season. So I think she enjoys drinking.

I find it insulting to both Kaitlyn and Nick to say she has to be drunk to sleep with him. But anything that helps with the image that Shawn was her true love from the first moment and it wasn't that she just wanted to have sex with Nick. Ridiculous.

Rosepetal wrote:Does anyone else think that Kaitlyn has to get drunk to sleep with Nick.I  think she was the first time and it seemed like there was a lot of drinking on the FS date. JMO.

Does that mean that Kaitlyn was drunk when she picked out her clothes on the morning of the Dublin date and purposely chose the sweater with the slits up the back. And was she drunk early in the date when she pointed out to Nick that she chose the sweater so that he could touch the skin on her back?

IMO blaming behavior, any behavior, on drinking is just a sorry excuse for a scapegoat. IMO, many people let themselves get drunk so that they can do things they wanted to do anyway without having to take responsibility. Doesn't fly with me!

I also find it sad to suggest that Kaitlyn would let alcohol make decisions for her. She's made mistakes but I give her more credit than that personally.

ITA with the above posts (Stuck and eirekay) and scapegoating.

Imo, this comes with knowing a spoiler to be true (since it came from the lead herself) and while all the other obvious clues are obvious, the debate would have still raged on as to whether there was indeed an F1 without either camp able to "prove" it.

It is also why, imho, it is more palatable to think of Kaitlyn needing alcohol to be with Nick... because with the spoiler the focus is now on whether Shawn and Kaitlyn will last and thus, if Kaitlyn was not really into Nick then that gives the hope that they will.

jmo

ITA with your post AAL (therefore Stuck and eirekay's too). It is ok that Kaitlyn thought she knew it was Shawn until Nick was there. Then she needed to figure that relationship out, and she concluded it was still Shawn. That's fine because it's the way the system works. But revising history to diminish her other relationships and build the F1 into an epic love story is just kinda silly. imo

BKay wrote:ITA with your post AAL (therefore Stuck and eirekay's too). It is ok that Kaitlyn thought she knew it was Shawn until Nick was there. Then she needed to figure that relationship out, and she concluded it was still Shawn. That's fine because it's the way the system works. But revising history to diminish her other relationships and build the F1 into an epic love story is just kinda silly. imo

You said it much more succinctly than I ever could. ITA. :Nod:

I think it's safe to say after what has been aired, it's not the lovely little love story we hoped it would be (& I've been in the canoe with KaitBoo for a while now).
At the same time, it is raw, gritty, and more interesting then some of the other pretty ones.
IMO, Nick and Shawn were on more equal footing before their sexcapades. The reaction to how she felt afterwards was the turning point for her.
The 2nd time with Nick, IMO, is because part of her wanted to fall for Nick since he is more her type and maybe she would have a sort of epiphany or second guessing in regards to Shawn. And another part of her just wanted to sow some wild oats before hunkering down with her chosen one. And to that I say, why not? I think it's a smart move.
I'm curious to know what would've happened had K&N not slept together until FD?

AllAboutLove wrote:

BKay wrote:ITA with your post AAL (therefore Stuck and eirekay's too). It is ok that Kaitlyn thought she knew it was Shawn until Nick was there. Then she needed to figure that relationship out, and she concluded it was still Shawn. That's fine because it's the way the system works. But revising history to diminish her other relationships and build the F1 into an epic love story is just kinda silly. imo

You said it much more succinctly than I ever could. ITA. :Nod:

me too!

agentcurls wrote:I think it's safe to say after what has been aired, it's not the lovely little love story we hoped it would be (& I've been in the canoe with KaitBoo for a while now).
At the same time, it is raw, gritty, and more interesting then some of the other pretty ones.
IMO, Nick and Shawn were on more equal footing before their sexcapades. The reaction to how she felt afterwards was the turning point for her.
The 2nd time with Nick, IMO, is because part of her wanted to fall for Nick since he is more her type and maybe she would have a sort of epiphany or second guessing in regards to Shawn. And another part of her just wanted to sow some wild oats before hunkering down with her chosen one. And to that I say, why not? I think it's a smart move.
I'm curious to know what would've happened had K&N not slept together until FD?

Okay, that would be interesting! I do see chemistry between Kaitlyn and Nick. And I find it interesting that both Andi and Kaitlyn said that Nick made them feel like a woman, in almost the exact same words. That said, the moment Kaitlyn felt guilty or concerned about Shawn's reaction, it was over IMO.

agentcurls wrote:I think it's safe to say after what has been aired, it's not the lovely little love story we hoped it would be (& I've been in the canoe with KaitBoo for a while now).
At the same time, it is raw, gritty, and more interesting then some of the other pretty ones.
IMO, Nick and Shawn were on more equal footing before their sexcapades. The reaction to how she felt afterwards was the turning point for her.
The 2nd time with Nick, IMO, is because part of her wanted to fall for Nick since he is more her type and maybe she would have a sort of epiphany or second guessing in regards to Shawn. And another part of her just wanted to sow some wild oats before hunkering down with her chosen one. And to that I say, why not? I think it's a smart move.
I'm curious to know what would've happened had K&N not slept together until FD?

I think Shawn is Kaitlyn's type down to his last muscle. If you saw her pre-cleaned up SM it was all Shawn type guys. She just like Andi is staying with her exact type. Maybe it will work out better for her.

I wish they had waited to have sex, but in some ways it is good. I just wouldn't want Nick stuck with her. She and Shawn both seem to enjoy that possessive, infatuation type love, so I am personally glad they are stuck together. I hope for the fans here on the board that it lasts as I really don't enjoy the Kaitlyn or the Shawn I have seen on my screen. Sorry his niece and nephew pics make him just like every other 20 something guy on my FB timeline. Really not all that different or special. JMO

My daughter just turn 30. She is a professional artist, and as such, is always focused on the future because she needs to know how she is paying rent. She divides guys in to two categories pretty quickly when she dating: "Now" guys and "Future" guys.

"Now" guys are always focused on the next gig, party, event, and their passion is sparked by someone who can keep up, go along and fit in. "Future" guys are more concerned with where things leads and what follows, and their passion is sparked by someone who can participate and contribute.

Daughter quickly, as in on night 1, labeled Shawn a "now" guy - she says that's why it was so easy for him to say "I'm here for you" that night without getting to know Kaitlyn more deeply. Daughter had labeled Nick a "Future" guy on Andi's night 1 because Nick was surprised at receiving the FIR and had real questions.

I think Shawn has a lot of redeeming qualities, but I agree with my daughter - he is all about "now" which is why every action of Kaitlyn's is an emotion trauma for him - he is not playing the chess game and seeing where it takes him 3 moves out.

I disagree with you and your daughter. If Shawn was a now guy, he'd peace out because right now, Kait is having sex with someone else. He specifically stayed because of the future he can have with her, not the angsty now he's experiencing. Jmo.