The Bachelorette Season 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - Discussion #2

^^ agree with most of the above.

Fabgirl said it best, Kait is trying to please Shawn most of the times. Maybe this is the type of relationship she has been having? A big guy with big ego, who she perceives as protective man, and she has to constantly feed the ego. I found she is having such kind of interaction with Shawn. How she felt is not important, as long as the big man doesn't give up on her, she is good.

And I too think Nick is more considerate, at least he asked how she felt, not all about him. But after Nick comforted Kait, she goes back to the big guy again.

AllAboutLove wrote:

LenaActually wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:
I am still waiting for Shawn to stop talking about/selling himself (from first moment with drawing, to t-shirt, to family photos, etc...) I have yet to see Shawn actually ask anything about Kaitlyn and not talk about himself or his feelings. I would guess this was on the edit cutting floor/off camera time but he was this way the moment he "met" her after swinging both Britt and Kaitlyn around... "sweep them off their feet, literally".

Tbh, isn't that every guy on this show? I swear, every single date she's been on, all they show is the guy talking about his family, his inability to be loved (still cackling about this one), how his parents met. People claim Kaitlyn is a bad Bachelorette because the public doesn't really know much about her, but look at what she's been dealt! The producers have no interest in expounding upon her personality. And have no interest in showing her being open with any of her suitors, which if she truly intends on getting engaged to one of them, you'd bet she would've have to be at some point.

Actually it isn't. Both Nick and Ben H have asked Kaitlyn how she is doing/feeling and focused the conversation on her and not just themselves.

Jared was also very caring about how Kaitlyn was feeling. Truthfully, even Cupcake was very concerned with Kaitlyn and her experience when they were on Broadway. So of her F6, 4 really expressed concern for her feelings over their own, Joe was total MOT and the other is her F1. For those who watch the Millionaire Matchmaker, I think Patti would say Kaitlyn's picker is off. She is kind of like a man picking with the wrong head, but I don't know what she is picking with. JMO.

^ Very true, Cupcake was very concerned and so was Jared - both very sweet and caring.

fabgirl wrote:I haven't been too invested in this season due to the drama and the lack of relationships truly developing.Kaitlyn imo is looking from the essence of " love in the moment ".A good relationship begins with friendship, courtship,trust, and communication being number one. Kaitlyn is "in the "moment" with physical chemistry with both f1 and
f2.
For me kaitlyn is fighting to hard in the relationship to please Shawn and has by passed other great guys in front of her. Kaitlyn still has a lot to learn about love, she was totally disrespectful to most of the guys with the Nick escapade, telling shawn he's the one, and lying to Shawn about her status with nick when she initiated the sex.Kaitlyn would have looked better if she chose no one in the end and waited awhile just to date.Jmo, I feel as though both Shawn and Kaitlyn were caught up in the moment: jmo, his to win the girl and her to be engaged, i say this because he never showed true interest in her, but to be the one. He gave up his job for the show, he either wins the girl or become the bachelor, increases his chances of future endorsements.Same can be said for Nick to show a better image of himself, but I feel he truly came on the show for Kaitlyn. I am wishing Kaitlyn the best and hope she can move past her mistakes and learn from them. Des and Chris showed a true love story to me even Jp and Ashley.If Shawn was her true f1 she wouldnt  have slept with Nick 2x. Kaitlyn lacks respect for herself and others in the process.

Interesting points.... but Ashley slept with Ben. ;)

BKay wrote:I noticed that about Nick too. He always encourages her to talk and engage.

I just watched the scene again in her hotel room where S says "but the other guys aren't feeling what I'm feeling." If I had been K, I would've thought, "so you think you are the only one falling in love with me? Only you have real feelings for me? gee, thanks for letting me know."

I would find it pretty insulting if the guy claiming to be madly in love with me thought that no one else can possibly have strong feelings for me. I think that's a clear sign that their "love" has little to do with me and all to do with them.

I mean Shawn thinks Nick can't possibly be falling for Kaitlyn no matter what he says, there has to be some ulterior motive there. Why? He himself supposedly fell in love with her on first sight, yet Nick must be immune and there to just get some attention. It's insulting to Kaitlyn IMO. As was telling her he wishes she was smarter. He just gives off this air of superiority that bothers me a lot. If you're truly in love with someone, you think they're a catch for anyone and you're lucky to even be getting a chance. You don't think you're entitled to their affection, because you're the only one who "loves" them, and get frustrated when they're silly enough to think they might have other options. Ugh.

Glowworm2 wrote:The PT article states "In cases of love at first acquaintance, there appears to be an earnest desire to be loyal, consistent, candid, trustworthy, considerate, empathetic, tolerant, beneficent, and to be there for the other."

I don't believe that this is possible within the format of this show. In real life, yes. On this show, no. The lead is on new dates every day. The contestants only speak with the lead for a few minutes here and there. They are not allowed to talk about whatever they like and we also have the producers messing with their minds. None of them see the whole "picture" because they don't hear what is being said in ITMs.
At the very best I think that it's possible for a lead, with the right intentions, to find someone that they could fall in love with afterwards. On this show there is so much going on and so little time for each relationship to be other than "very early on".

I made that post specifically because the show format and the manipulation of the lead and all the contestants makes that kind of "love at first acquaintance" connection impossible to follow the same trajectory it would if the couple met IRL. It's impossible to develop the trust, candor, loyalty, empathy and all the other things that are part of that sort of connection when the lead has to date other people and the show is continually pushing them to compartmentalize and explore relationships with other people. Likewise it's impossible for the cast member to trust and allow themselves to be vulnerable when the person they are attracted to is dating other people and can't express what they really feel to anyone.

Kaitlyn has explored her relationships to "the fullest" and not showed any signs as of how a person in the article would act and there is a huge risk that that can make the final relationship really, really shaky when the show is over.

IMO she couldn't show any of those signs - no matter how much she might have wanted to - because the situation she was in made it impossible for her. She said exactly this to Shawn.

To me the fascination with this season is because I am seeing two people caught in a very artificial situation, struggling to find some shred of normalcy in which they could allow the attraction (which in this case seems both strong and mutual) to develop when they are both being pulled in different directions. IMO this doesn't make a final relationship shaky at all - I think it makes it much stronger than it would have been otherwise. It's not the "easy times" that measure the resolve of a couple to stay together - it's the hard times that make it easier to part that provide the test. If a couple can stick it out through the hard times, the easy times will take care of themselves. IMO the risk these two faced was all about making it to the end without ever giving up on each other; since it appears to me that they found a way to do this just makes their relationship less shaky than most from this show.
JMHO

OnePromise wrote:

LenaActually wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:
I am still waiting for Shawn to stop talking about/selling himself (from first moment with drawing, to t-shirt, to family photos, etc...) I have yet to see Shawn actually ask anything about Kaitlyn and not talk about himself or his feelings. I would guess this was on the edit cutting floor/off camera time but he was this way the moment he "met" her after swinging both Britt and Kaitlyn around... "sweep them off their feet, literally".

Tbh, isn't that every guy on this show? I swear, every single date she's been on, all they show is the guy talking about his family, his inability to be loved (still cackling about this one), how his parents met. People claim Kaitlyn is a bad Bachelorette because the public doesn't really know much about her, but look at what she's been dealt! The producers have no interest in expounding upon her personality. And have no interest in showing her being open with any of her suitors, which if she truly intends on getting engaged to one of them, you'd bet she would've have to be at some point.

Not every guy on the show...Nick has actually asked how Kaitlyn was feeling at the beginning of each of their conversations...even when he had things weighing on his mind to discuss.  He says twice, "lay it on me" when asking about how she is doing.  (Once in San Antonio after the Ian tirade and once in Killarney.).

There obviously are conversations both ways. IMO, we only see "snippets" of their conversations, the ones that fit MF storyline.

1)guys were talking about her cosmetology license when Josh asked for the haircut. There were other instances that things were mentioned that tell me that there is A LOT said in the long all day dates that we don't see.

2) Nick knew his way around the second time on Bette. He saw Andi's comments how she called him a "real man" for pursuing her harder than the others. He even commented that he didn't see how getting a haircut would bring you closer to K....

btw-If you recall the kissing with holding the girls head came from Airie. The kissing against the wall and seducing a woman also came from previous seasons. IMO, N is using his skills i.e. being the aggressor, the seducer, the listener, moving quickly from the other seasons; it's called experience.

Ariela wrote:

OnePromise wrote:

LenaActually wrote:

Tbh, isn't that every guy on this show? I swear, every single date she's been on, all they show is the guy talking about his family, his inability to be loved (still cackling about this one), how his parents met. People claim Kaitlyn is a bad Bachelorette because the public doesn't really know much about her, but look at what she's been dealt! The producers have no interest in expounding upon her personality. And have no interest in showing her being open with any of her suitors, which if she truly intends on getting engaged to one of them, you'd bet she would've have to be at some point.

Not every guy on the show...Nick has actually asked how Kaitlyn was feeling at the beginning of each of their conversations...even when he had things weighing on his mind to discuss.  He says twice, "lay it on me" when asking about how she is doing.  (Once in San Antonio after the Ian tirade and once in Killarney.).

There obviously are conversations both ways. IMO, we only see "snippets" of their conversations, the ones that fit MF storyline.

1)guys were talking about her cosmetology license when Josh asked for the haircut. There were other instances that things were mentioned that tell me that there is A LOT said in the long all day dates that we don't see.

2) Nick knew his way around the second time on Bette. He saw Andi's comments how she called him a "real man" for pursuing her harder than the others. He even commented that he didn't see how getting a haircut would bring you closer to K....

btw-If you recall the kissing with holding the girls head came from Airie. The kissing against the wall and seducing a woman also came from previous seasons. IMO, N is using his skills i.e. being the aggressor, the seducer, the listener, moving quickly from the other seasons; it's called experience.

IMO, Nick is not using "his skills" to do anything other than to show Kaitlyn how he feels about her. He is a passionate guy. Yes, on the show as both Andi and Kaitlyn have said as much. But also in his real life. His friends were quoted as saying Nick goes after what he wants, is confident when he has reason to be and has been know to be a hopeless romantic in past relationships. I do not think that he was just putting on a show. He was just being himself. Which again IMO is most certainly not an "aggressor" or "seducer". Just because he knows what he wants and goes after it without excuse or regret, does not make him an aggressive playboy. IMO, it makes him the kind of guy I would want pursuing me.

And of course he is going to use his experience to make decisions on the show....wouldn't everyone? It would be stupid not to, especially considering how last season ended for Nick.

Ariela wrote:

OnePromise wrote:

LenaActually wrote:

Tbh, isn't that every guy on this show? I swear, every single date she's been on, all they show is the guy talking about his family, his inability to be loved (still cackling about this one), how his parents met. People claim Kaitlyn is a bad Bachelorette because the public doesn't really know much about her, but look at what she's been dealt! The producers have no interest in expounding upon her personality. And have no interest in showing her being open with any of her suitors, which if she truly intends on getting engaged to one of them, you'd bet she would've have to be at some point.

Not every guy on the show...Nick has actually asked how Kaitlyn was feeling at the beginning of each of their conversations...even when he had things weighing on his mind to discuss.  He says twice, "lay it on me" when asking about how she is doing.  (Once in San Antonio after the Ian tirade and once in Killarney.).

There obviously are conversations both ways. IMO, we only see "snippets" of their conversations, the ones that fit MF storyline.

1)guys were talking about her cosmetology license when Josh asked for the haircut. There were other instances that things were mentioned that tell me that there is A LOT said in the long all day dates that we don't see.

2) Nick knew his way around the second time on Bette. He saw Andi's comments how she called him a "real man" for pursuing her harder than the others. He even commented that he didn't see how getting a haircut would bring you closer to K....

btw-If you recall the kissing with holding the girls head came from Airie. The kissing against the wall and seducing a woman also came from previous seasons. IMO, N is using his skills i.e. being the aggressor, the seducer, the listener, moving quickly from the other seasons; it's called experience.

Nailed it. Nick's a smart guy. He knew exactly what he needed to do. I think he's relied heavily on physical chemistry and had no clue she built somewhat of a deeper bond with Shawn. I mean,  just comparing dates, her and Nick did the deed on their first 1on1 and spent plenty of time petting each other, her and Shawn were taking near death expediences while she cradled him and he opened up like he was on Dr Phil . She was gone and Nick just couldn't catch up.

_______________________________________

I guess I see it differently because I don't trust his (N) motives....WHY would anyone do this 2x on TV, of ALL things???

N is laying it on too thick, and covering his mouth while he's saying it....I pay attention to body language, and something tells me that:
1) N likes K. I'll give him that one!

Other motives:
2) N is determined to "win" this time, hence all the references to Andi's season (btw-that would turn me off, if I were K. I would feel being compared to Andi).
3)wants MORE TV time.
That is my impression watching the Bette.

There are so many cast who have been on this show twice and more. So there must be multiple motives and none that apply solely to Nick. JMO

Ariela wrote:_______________________________________

I guess I see it differently because I don't trust his (N) motives....WHY would anyone do this 2x on TV, of ALL things???

N is laying it on too thick, and covering his mouth while he's saying it....I pay attention to body language, and something tells me that:
1) N likes K. I'll give him that one!

Other motives:
2) N is determined to "win" this time, hence all the references to Andi's season (btw-that would turn me off, if I were K. I would feel being compared to Andi).
3)wants MORE TV time.
That is my impression watching the Bette.

There are those on BIP who have made more than 3 appearances with this franchise let alone 2. ChrisB has returned more times than I can count.

Nick is being smart this time around. He's not speaking clearly for a reason IMO. Maybe because he doesn't want the mic to pick it up?  Those that follow him, know, he is very bright, his language capabilites are professional and speaks well.

Comparison to Andi's season is annoying, only because I'd be happy if I never heard reference to that season again. However, unfortunately we will hear and have heard reference to the previous season's heartbreak every single season not just this one. That's nothing new.