Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #4

Lucas15 wrote:

Alanna wrote:I find Kaitlyn insecure (sorry Kait!) so if she was giving sex to get love, it wouldn't surprise me. I feel bad saying and admitting that, but it's just the truth. I'm really looking forward to seeing her relationship with Nick and what went wrong here since they talked all day and he was her support system, I guess.

IMO she is insecure but she would be the last person to ever admit that she is. At a conscious level I don't think she would give sex to get love - she would view it as her "right" as a mature 30 year old woman to make her own choices about her own body and a way of determining if a particular guy was compatible with her sexually (ie created fireworks for her).

IMO Kaitlyn had two relationships on her season and they were different. Snapchatgate has led me to now believe that she had never met Nick before the show but he was a very good friend - someone with whom she could share her feelings and insecurities about doing the show - ie he was a good friend and she had an "emotional" (as in friendship) bond with him, but probably never had romantic feelings about him. Shawn was the opposite - she felt an immediate and strong chemistry (think lust) the moment she first met him, but she didn't know him and really had no emotional (friendship) connection with him. Her dilemma was trying to figure out if she could have that sexual chemistry with Nick or develop that trusting friendship with Shawn.

Good post, this makes sense to me and I agree, but why did snapchat gate make you think of this? It seems like we knew this before I think?

FLChica wrote:

umngirl wrote:

FLChica wrote:
After "Celebrity" Wife Swap, wannabes can watch the professionally licensed Bach folks pick up a paycheck on Family Feud! 

And win $25,000 for a charity. #SuchANegativeThing

And maybe they will read this and decide to donate their Family Feud paycheck to the charity! #ForTheRightReasons

I don't know why they have to donate their paycheck to the charity? Especially when they don't have "regular" jobs like other people, I think they really need the $$$ to pay the bills.

Ok guys, really, back to Nick.

We can discuss Family Feud in the appropriate thread. We have one ya know?

Lucas15 wrote:

ironcat wrote:Lots of great posts here.  I couldn't agree more that any guy who is going to get hung up on Kaitlyn's free spirited, earthy attitude toward sex is not the guy for her.  We really don't know what Shawn's attitude is, but based on what Nick has said in the past, I suspect that he and she wouldn't be on the same page with this, so perhaps Shawn is the better choice for her.

Regarding Nick and sex, whether he had it with Kaitlyn once or twice, I do have to wonder what he thought it meant at the time, as far as them being on the same page, ie, was it "fiance type stuff" or just casual fun?  And if she really chose not to have sex with him at all (and thus Shawn is sex guy), how he could have possibly still proposed sincerely (don't think it's likely, the guy is too smart not to understand what a brushoff like that would mean regardless of how much his handler tried to manipulate him).  So despite Snapchatgate spoiling the outcome, for me there are still a lot of unanswered questions/details that I am curious to see play out.

Once again Ironcat you are posting those little things that I question also.

I've also thought that Kaitlyn's "free spirit" attitude toward sex and Nick's might not be on the same page IF I believe Nick's attitude is what he expressed best in the Patheos blog of Sean's. But to be honest, my flags went off on that article. Born of the old Mars / Venus adage (which I'm not certain is 100% true) that men will give love to get sex and women will give sex to get love, many men will use a line like "I'm so in love with you I want to make love with you to share our love" simply as a way of getting sex from a woman and "love" has nothing to do with it. Men learn this when they take the class "How to get women to put out 101" that seems to be "taught" in every "man talk" starting at puberty.

I'm genuinely sorry if my cynicism here offends as that is absolutely not my intent - which is only to point out a possible reality.

IMO Snapchatgate answers some questions and raises many others and I am equally curious to see them play out and see if we actually get those answers.

Lucas, I for one am not the least bit offended by your cynicism, and have in the past also stated my skepticism about whether Nick's views of sexual mores were really him walking the walk or just talking the talk; I guess at this point I've decided to take the guy at his word AND then hold him accountable for putting his money where his mouth is.  So if he did have sex with Kaitlyn, either in Ireland or in the FS or both, he better have had "that conversation" with her, and then be consistent in his actions/attitudes, for me to not start calling him out on his disingenuousness/hypocrisy.

Alanna wrote:Good post, this makes sense to me and I agree, but why did snapchat gate make you think of this? It seems like we knew this before I think?

I don't think I was all the clear in my post. Yes - there are certainly things we thought and talked about but "know" is a very strong word when it comes to this show. I try to look at this show and read all the differing opinions with as open a mind as I can possibly keep and assign a "mental" probability to various possibilities to try and figure out what is the most likely "truth". As soon as you know (from visual and pretty incontrovertible proof) that Kaitlyn ended up with the guy to whom she felt an immediate and strong connection to and to whom she gave the FIR then you can start making highly probable guesses about other things.

Wow. Just Wow!!! Off board from Friday afternoon till this morn only to find out about Snapchat pic of Shawn & K in bed...How did this happen? How careless can you be? It blows my mind (explodes like Ben H did when the guys were told Nick was coming on). Friday I was thinking even with RS leak of Nick proposing and being told no there was still a good chance he ended up with K. N saying on last episode he was "gonna follow his heart" when explaining to K why he came on show then Fleiss tweeting "Always follow your heart,# Bachelornation" after the episode and Chris Harrison saying when Nick showed up it was "game over" sealed the deal for me. All the while thinking K could not purposely take N to F2 only to dump him After he proposes if she had no intention to further their relationship, she is bad az. What a mean way to crush a guy, especially if he was prefantasy suite guy.

As for the pic & report of N with Whitney at the bar in US weekly on May 30th they were probably comisserating on what happened to both of them. I read the article and it said he arrived first with other friends then Whitney arrived about 15 min later and friends moved off and left them alone for about 2 1/2 hours talking and at one point W was seen stroking N knee. Unrequited love. I am sad for both but am of opinion neither Chris or Kaitlyn were worth it so they are both better off. Best revenge is looking good and Nick is doing that!!!!!!!!!!!!

^I don't think it's US, but Star or OK!?
Nick is excited about Hawks game tonight. Watch TPTB put Nick, Kaitlyn and Whitney in the same bar!

AllAboutLove wrote:Nick liked this post of Becca's on IG:

@beccatilley5 It's really the least you can do for yourself--and PS: you can do better!  7h

I think this post is from Becca to Whit not to Kaitlyn. JMO.

Lucas, Ironcat and Alanna ... I greatly appreciate your discussion in this thread.
And no, take no offense for the cynicism.

Since I often read how Nick is a hypocrite with what he says and does, I would actually like to admit ... that we as "fans" (sorry for generalizing) are the ones who interpret his words that sometimes go against his subsequent deeds, and thus resulting his actions as not being in line with things said... as any "fan"-group really, we tend to justify one team and criticize the other for the same action. So I think there's more of a double standard in people who make the comments, not the people who we comment about.

Be prepared for a hidden video of Nick and Kaitlyn tonight looking cozy being leaked.

I honestly feel that is going to happen Fleiss will pull out all stops to add to the confusion.

nikikass wrote:Be prepared for a hidden video of Nick and Kaitlyn tonight looking cozy being leaked.

I honestly feel that is going to happen Fleiss will pull out all stops to add to the confusion.

The plot thickens I can't wait to see what TPTB does next.

I just became spoiled this a.m. when I clicked on E! News about Kaitlyn's snapchat leak. I was just curious to read about the leak but fully expected a warning if they were going to reveal a spoiler. Nope. No warning whatsoever. Just a huge photo of Shawn.

If RS had picked up/reported snapchat gate, fine. But the fact that a mainstream source such as E! Online covered it really makes me think that ABC authorized the leak to either stir up some drama and/or cut Kaitlyn some slack with the sl*t shaming if Shawn ends up to be guy she sleeps with midseason. Seems to me it would be easier for America to swallow that she has mid-season sex with the guy who ends up her F1. IDK. Heck, I thought that Nick's airplane video was all staged last year and could still be convinced that it was. Sure made for great publicity and helped establish his "villain" image, esp with Josh fans.

As far as Nick goes, I am not too worried about him. I posted before even began that I thought Nick coming back on the show was all ABC influenced. I have a really hard time believing that a smart 34 year old guy with a good job in a fairly conservative industry (and one that I have been part of for more than 20 years) would take another ride on Bachelorette carousel without incentive from TPTB. It just does not make sense. Publicly traded software companies do not just keep giving software sales guys with quarterly goals in a highly competitive industry time off to go pursue a second life in reality TV.

And, how convenient, that the same guy who was so polarizing last year with probably more viewers hating him then liking him again gets taken to F2 and dumped?! Come on.    

Nick is a big boy ... he doesn't need freeing. The guy is 34 years old, after all. I find it hard to believe that NIck really can't find someone to date without cameras following him around! As a Nick fan, it's more comforting to think that he's back for $$$ not for love as everything is just a bit UnREAL this season.