Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #4

^^^ Just a quick answer (I have to leave too soon for a detailed one) but HGL I'm enjoying the speculation. I don't think that sex guy and her ultimately final choice for an F1 are the same guy - otherwise it doesn't matter that she had sex - and all evidence appears to suggest that it does matter. And that may be an explanation for why she leaves single if indeed she does leave single - she couldn't make it work with who she wanted and she wasn't willing to settle just to give another fake happy ending to the show.

Lucas15 wrote:

happygolucky wrote:1) Why would K need to ask (or reprimand) Nick about his behavior on Andi's season?

She probably wouldn't and IMO Robyn's question is mostly irrelevant.

ETA: Robyn gets a lot of access to CH over many years. I believe that she is less of an "investigative reporter digging for truth" and more of a straight man who asks the questions CH wants to answer - to give CH a chance to regurgitate the show's "party line". IMO that was a question CH wanted asked so he could give the answer he gave.

I was more interested in the answer CH gave than the question Robyn asked.

2) Who can say with certainty what K really thinks about the situation from the last season and whose side she was on? ... Maybe she's not questioning whether this can happen to her, because she isn't worried to talk about it?

Yes - Kaitlyn makes no excuses for who she sleeps with and when so being "outed" for sleeping with someone means little to her. And thanks to all the publicity about the sex event, it won't mean much to viewers.

3) I think "if history repeats itself" is more for the fans/viewers ... they are the ones expecting for Nick to make the same mistakes again, behave the same way ... and no need to worry, you will get the same-old "Nick version by TPTB"... but in order to repeat, things need to happen:
- K has to 1st sleep with him (which she probably did)
- K needs to sleep with the other guy (which is also insinuated she did in FS)
- K would need to pick the other guy as F1 ...
then since Kait is being honest, she would tell the other guy that she slept with Nick, which can bring "destined F1" to leave ... resulting K ends alone ... BUT ... there is also a promise of "a Full Mesnick" ... maybe possible F2 come-back ... And then guess what?

That's where it gets interesting. If the guy Kait slept with before the FD ends up being F1 anyway - who cares when or how many times she slept with him? It's absolutely no big deal to F1 or Kait. Viewers may think it's unfair or icky but IMO she should not care - and wouldn't care. But the rest of your logic is also valid - IF Nick was the "sex guy" and she wanted someone else as F1 and therefore had to tell the other guy about sleeping with Nick and he couldn't deal with the fact that she slept with Nick quite before the FD and bailed, then we have a "situation" for Kait. And that situation could well have left her without the F1 she wanted and just feeling totally icky about everything that happened with Nick and therefore unable to choose Nick - and is alone. At least that's a theory that IMO is plausible.

I don't consider that a "Full Mesnick" necessarily means a change in choice - I think as CH uses it it means an emotional outburst such as Jason had after he sent Molly home where he cried over the railing. For that matter ( ) we sort of had a Mesnick from JJ after Kait sent Clint home - so this may be a "Mesnick kind of season".

I agree. I think the term "full Mesnick" has come to signify over the years, any time a lead (or really anybody on the show) has a total breakdown involving sustained bawling, and preferably in the vicinity of a balcony. The "full" comes from the wrestling terms, "full Nelson" or "half Nelson", with "half" being used if the crying is not so intense. So while it would make more sense for the "full" to mean the person also changed their mind like Jason, I don't believe that's the way CH was using it, because for one, it would be TMI to give out to fans. If they have that kind of a shocking ending to present, they're going to save, and savor, the surprise until the end.

Although it's too early to know for sure, I don't think Nick is going to get a good edit this season, and, if SM is anything to go by, reaction to him from viewers, based on the way he was reintroduced to the show was not positive from the majority. I do think that IF we see a softening of Nick's edit, with less emphasis on sex/lust, that may indicate that he isn't sex guy, but if the edit continues to feed into the viewers' preconceived notions of who Nick is, he will also end up being sex guy, who is predictable in his "dastardly deeds", as every good villain must be, of course.

Untill later ...
about the question of Nick's past season ... Kaitlyn very cleverly slid over that topic in her newest blog by saying she was on Chris' team and that only with their interaction was she able to decide her view about him. Stating:

Kaitlyn's People.com blog wrote:I remember thinking, "Wow, this doesn't seem like the same guy who was on TV." He was very easy to talk to, funny, witty and incredibly supportive when I was having a difficult time with the idea of two Bachelorettes. He became my go-to person for advice. We became close – or as close as two people can become who have never really met.

Another thing to add to speculations:

Kaitlyn's blog wrote:I'm more of a coach kind of gal. But first class really is a whole new world (foreshadowing!).

whatever that could mean?.

**snipped** wrote:

Another thing to add to speculations:

Kaitlyn's blog wrote:I'm more of a coach kind of gal. But first class really is a whole new world (foreshadowing!).

whatever that could mean?.

I think she means the Aladdin date

I think it means exactly that. She is talking about flying. She is used to flying in coach but flew in first class and it was a whole new world.

**moved to the BIP thread**

tvjunkie88 wrote:**moved to the BIP thread**

Thanks and I'm sorry for the wrong place

OMG, the last thing that I should care about is someone else's sex-life. But here we are, if that deed is indeed the reason for a switch, for some sort of diversion, then it's fair I guess to speculate who is the "guilty" one.
So, from what I gather, a lot of you think that the sex-guy is not her ultimate F1 choice (whether she actually ends up with him or not)?
Those who hope for Nick being F1 think she did it with Shawn ... and people would expect Nick to call her out on it ...which I'm not saying with certainty that it won't happen, but I do see Nick as a feminist, so I presume the sex itself wouldn't be a problem for him, as much as the thought that she isn't into him, so therefor making him doubt about the possible happy ending ("don't make out with the girl before I do")... we could assume he would leave as soon as possible for not wanting to waste time, but we know he stuck till the end (or at least we think we do), so he didn't give up, but we haven't really seen Nick being insecure/unsure/precarious/scared so far, so that could be "refreshing" if it happens.
Those who hope for Shawn being F1 think she did it with Nick ... and if I'm reading right, many assume he could be the one spilling the beans, bragging about it and make the guys uncomfortable (that's what is expected from him). So if he doesn't talk and he doesn't even give a clue to anyone, but it's Kaitlyn who puts him on the spot (whoever she tells)... how would that reflect then on their relationship and how do you think Shawn handles it?
Reading Emusha's post: why Nick wouldn't do it, when he knows the repercussions it would bring... I'm not so sure about that, he could still ride with the moment and "embodied" his "I don't care about other guys" stance ... which is what is expected from him...and maybe wishful thinking from my side is that he wouldn't feed the mounts that want to shred him ... and again it could go with his realness of following his heart, so if he did, who am I to judge?

I wish we would have more SM evidences ... but the only positive sign is his smiley face and snap-back-bean new style ... whatever it means, whatever the outcome, it brings the joy in here.

Just throwing this out there, but is there a chance that maybe it wasn't Kaitlyn's choice to tell whomever she had sex, maybe it got out accidentally and that forced her to tell the guy/guys? I really don't see the need for her to tell anyone unless she was forced to

The only reason that I am skeptical of the idea that sex guy ends up being her F1 is that, although I realize Kaitlyn is "brutally honest", if she had fallen for one guy, decided she couldn't resist sneaking away with him to have sex, it was great (we assume) and she continued to have every intention to pick him, why the need to tell the other guys, guys who she was only planning on dumping eventually? It's a head scratcher for me, but then I can't imagine going on this show as a lead and wanting to have sex with the guy other than the one I was planning on choosing in the first place, although apparently several of the women have. Kids these days, sigh.

GuardianAngel wrote:I think it means exactly that. She is talking about flying. She is used to flying in coach but flew in first class and it was a whole new world.

I could have phrased that better. What I meant to say is that she was referring to Aladdin when talking about forshadowing and that her flying first class is a whole new world to her. I don't see any hidden meaning behind it, just a play with words like man-icure and manpered when talking about Jared.