Final Rose Ceremony - Screencaps - Discussion

albean99 wrote:I don't like that they changed it. They also had the woman talk first and then the "but" came so there was no chance the guy would propose. I think the show started going downhill when they let Jason propose.

I agree. But unfortunately, I think all the outrage generated by Jason's proposal is exactly why they decided to keep using this format over the original one. Fleiss loves showing the humiliation of the poor guy, and the subsequent fan outrage. Also, it's a perfect setup for the next Bachelor.

ironcat wrote:

albean99 wrote:I don't like that they changed it. They also had the woman talk first and then the "but" came so there was no chance the guy would propose. I think the show started going downhill when they let Jason propose.

I agree. But unfortunately, I think all the outrage generated by Jason's proposal is exactly why they decided to keep using this format over the original one. Fleiss loves showing the humiliation of the poor guy, and the subsequent fan outrage. Also, it's a perfect setup for the next Bachelor.

Yes. I think we'll see a F2 proposal this time around and he'll get the viewers sympathy. After seeing how Ben's HTD was edited and then Chris asking in his blog what the viewers thought of Ben, it seemed to me they want him as their first choice for the Bachelor with Ryan as a backup plan.

bluwavz wrote:

ironcat wrote:

albean99 wrote:I don't like that they changed it. They also had the woman talk first and then the "but" came so there was no chance the guy would propose. I think the show started going downhill when they let Jason propose.

I agree. But unfortunately, I think all the outrage generated by Jason's proposal is exactly why they decided to keep using this format over the original one. Fleiss loves showing the humiliation of the poor guy, and the subsequent fan outrage. Also, it's a perfect setup for the next Bachelor.

Yes. I think we'll see a F2 proposal this time around and he'll get the viewers sympathy. After seeing how Ben's HTD was edited and then Chris asking in his blog what the viewers thought of Ben, it seemed to me they want him as their first choice for the Bachelor with Ryan as a backup plan.

Run Ben run!!

JBF wrote:

emusha wrote:

JBF wrote:

emusha wrote:what did ashley S say in her commentary jbf?

I wonder if Ben said that because JP was being such a green-eyed monster? =)

There were other comments she makes in that commentary that make me laugh:
(When Ben returns in his shorts and sandles...)

Ben has on such a walk of shame outfit!
Watch out, Ben, JP is murdering you with his eyes!

Later Ashley S. says:

I couldn't see JP actually fighting someone over jealousy.

Both she and Nick have a bit of a "tit for tat" during that group date discussion:
Nick: Anyone else tired of hearing JP complain???
Ash S: I think this late in the process, it is very hard to have fun on group dates. Everyone is starting to have real feelings.
Ash seems to forget that she freaked out on the small group date as well - that date where they shot photos for Sports Illustrated!

Interesting-- you got me thinking why Ben made those comments JBF...

Who knows anything with this sliced and diced show!!

Off topic, but I couldn’t resist adding these lines from episode #7’s abc.com commentary…

Oh tell us how you really feel about these folk!

Nick:

(responding to JP fussing over her dates with other guys) Or so you think...you haven't been on the other one-on-one dates with the other guys.
Ryan doesn't appear as happy-go-lucky this week, does he? Maybe the fact that I'm not around anymore is sinking in!
Thank you for leaving the orange shorts and Adidas shower shoes at home for this date, Constantine!
If your name is on the group date card, Ryan, just pack your stuff.
(responding to Ryan) We know there's a whole lot of energy running through you.
Good to see Ben brushed his hair for his date today!
Whoa, Constantine, what's up with the hair?
OMG Ames are your pants red?
(about Ames) 16...when he entered grad school!
(about JP after being with Ashley) Look who's in a good mood now.
(Ryan) "That's crazy"...is the typical response when you don't care.
Oh, water heaters! Uh oh!
Because you know he won't put up with a shower over 10 minutes long!
Well, last shot to sell her a solar panel.

Ashley S:

I have to say - I think Ryan looks hot with the scruff!
I just don't get the sense from Constantine that he is that into Ashley. When is he going to really bring the romance?
I love how honest Constantine is. He really doesn't seem like he is trying to "win." He wants real feelings to surface. But they better surface!
Ben and Constantine are both reserved with their feelings. I think Ash likes it more when guys are more open with how they feel.
I'm glad he's serious about this. My biggest concern about Ben is that he might not be serious enough. But we'll see.
These are sweet kisses! I wanna see some passion! Stop holding back Ben!
I wonder if Ames and Lucas got jealous as well?
Lucas is a good guy. I just don't know if Ash feels that strongly about him.
I bet Ames' biggest problem with relationships is he overanalyzes everything! Ahhhh the perils of being really smart!
(about JP) It's not fun to see the person you're falling in love with kiss other people.
(JP again) Aww, I want her to meet his family too!
I wish Ryan didn't talk about the relationship as if it were a business deal.
I wish Ryan would stop talking about everything around them and focus on making sure they connect.
Oh Ryan! Water heaters? Bless your heart.
This is a great example of how we can build someone up in our head, but that the reality doesn't always match. If it isn't there, it isn't there.

I will add that Ashley Spiney said that Ashley is a touchy-touchy person and when she likes someone, she is touching him a lot. Ashley Spiney mentioned that Ashley could not hold her hands from JP.

Do we have the same feeling with Ben or Constantive? nope. Complicity and fun, certainly but passion? Yes ashley has fun with Ben. I am still smiling about the way she calls her dog because I would do quit the same or the toes. Well I have great laughs with my friends about silly stuff, I even cry of laughing so hard... does it mean that I have a love connection with them? For the record I do not recall exactly when but I saw Ashley laughing really hard with JP (lets not forget the picture in the orphanage when she is holding his leg).

Each season we hear that for weeks and weeks all the contestants are doing nothing in the hotel or house, they just hang out, not allowed to visit, not allowed to phone even less to use internet. They are all in a boot camp. The only thing they do is talking about the dates and the lead. They are force to cope with each and everyone and the more they stay together, the more they get on each other nerves.

They have only the lead in mind so when she is around, everyone is checking the way she act, get her attention or just witness aside the group.

I would just say that early on we had some clue that the guys knew that JP was a front runner: The mask who remained alone and not long enough, said that the chemistry was with JP.... West, mention JP.... William who I think had a crush on her and therefore very involved to check Ashley, said JP was the frontrunner.... Nick as well.

The mention of Ben started very late with Lucas.... because Lucas did not like JP and liked ben and constantine better. But even in his exit media interview it was not clear. Most probably at that point each one are asked to mention both names.

I will not deny that the lead do have preferred guys at that point and the less guy standing in the group, the most obvious. I always said that the last 4 standing do have a special place in the lead's heart. We see that most of the time during the bloopers at the MTA. A lot of time, they refer to this or this conversation that we never heard.

We are all followers of the story the producers wish us to see. The only thing I will say is that if Ben is F1, yet again the producers failed because 85% of the population are seeing JP as F1... meaning that 85% will be upset about the show... meaning that 85% will give the show less and less credit and will more and more ridicule it.

It does not matter who she picked really. Ben looks like a nice decent guy. Same with a lot of participants this season. The finality of it is that if they played the chantal card this season again, they will spoil the fun of 85% of the audience.

just sayin'


ps: I made up the 85%... but I must not be very far from this number I think ;)

bluwavz wrote:
JBF, I find it interesting you think Ben may possibly propose to Ashley. I happen to agree, though I think most on this board don't think it'll happen. What makes you think he might?

Sorry I didn't answer this earlier. I really don't know. Just think it is a possiblity.

What "crumbs" have we had?

Episode #1:
Ashley (on William's date): One of my fears coming here was that these guys were not actually here to get married. Y’know, at the end of this journey, I’m hoping that this takes me to the altar.

Epsiode #5:
Ashley to Ben: Are you proposing to me?
Ben to the cameras, but not to Ashley: How beautiful is Ashley. You know I’m beginning to see her as a potential fiancé? Wife of mine?

Ashley calls him her "boyfriend"... twice. Is she viewing this relationship the same way he is?

Episode #8:
He doesn't use the L word, but says his feelings are "natural".
Julia asks Ben about getting engaged and he responds: If things keep progressing the way that they are and the way that they have been, I have no problem proposing.

Comparing Ben to the competition...

Episode #6:
Ashley: What do you think we will be doing in a month from now?
Jordan: Um. Something having to do with getting down on one knee, maybe… I don’t know
Ashley: You are so confident!

Episode #8:
Ilene to Jordan: Will you propose to her?
Jordan: If I feel IT, yeah. Why not? If I’m in love with her and if I… what’s to stop me from proposing now or three months from now, six months from now. I’m open to the possibility that it might and I want you guys to be open to the possibility that, if he feels it, he’s going to propose to her.

As Ashley looks at the guys photos for the rose ceremony, the following voice-over is heard...

Tonight is going to be so hard
JP photo shown first: If it were up to me,
(My take: Her decision may not be accepted by others right away)
Moving over to Ames photo: I would take all four guys on more dates but…
(My take: Nope... Ames gets no more dates)
Constantine: The truth is I need to start really figuring things out and make some tough decisions…
(My take: These lines remind me of Constantine's comments back in episode #5. He will make a tough decision at Fantasy Date time.)
Ben: Time is running out…
(My take: Hmmmm... Does this mean he makes a decision regarding a proposal rather late?)
She touches JP’s photo: but I’m in such a great place right now.
(My take: Sounds like she made up her mind already.)
All photos but a slow pan out with JP’s strategically in the middle:I’m ready. I’m ready to find my husband…

Preview quotes:

Jordan: Any doubts that I thought I had before... gone

Ben: Today couldn’t have been more perfect. I am falling for this girl. I really am.

Ash: I came here to meet the man of my dreams and I’m so certain with the way I feel about him, I don’t want to live without him.

Ash: At this point there’s no doubt in my mind, I’m ready to walk away with my husband.

What do you make of all of this? All open to questioning.

We are all followers of the story the producers wish us to see. The only thing I will say is that if Ben is F1, yet again the producers failed because 85% of the population are seeing JP as F1... meaning that 85% will be upset about the show... meaning that 85% will give the show less and less credit and will more and more ridicule it.

It does not matter who she picked really. Ben looks like a nice decent guy. Same with a lot of participants this season. The finality of it is that if they played the chantal card this season again, they will spoil the fun of 85% of the audience.

just sayin'


ps: I made up the 85%... but I must not be very far from this number I think ;)

Just want to comment on that. Out of my co-workers who watch the show only one thinks JP is for sure the f1 (she's been spoiled). One would like him to be the f1 but isn't sure and another (both unspoiled) can't tell which guy but hope she picks Ben. The other spoiled one thinks she either picks nobody or it's over. I have a feeling the general public tends to think that Ashley was crazy about Bentley and therefore didn't pick anyone or don't care. A lot do like JP but I'm not so sure a huge majority would be upset at a Ben upset. Now the internet world is another story. :laughingoutlou

All my unspoiled g/f's said that JP is the only guy who seems to really care and looks like he's fallen in love. They said a few others are like robots. I laughed, (they are unspoiled). They asked me, "so which one of the longhaired brothers makes it to the finale". I said, they are not brothers, they just resemble each other. Hilarious what some of the unspoiled viewers, who are not invested think. :giggle:

Gina wrote:All my unspoiled g/f's said that JP is the only guy who seems to really care and looks like he's fallen in love. They said a few others are like robots. I laughed, (they are unspoiled). They asked me, "so which one of the longhaired brothers makes it to the finale". I said, they are not brothers, they just resemble each other. Hilarious what some of the unspoiled viewers, who are not invested think. :giggle:

Yep, even Chris Harrison has been making light-hearted fun with that most of the season! Constantine did tell her he had made more of a connection with the guys than he did with her, when she asked him. With the amount of time they spend with each other vs. the amount of time they spend with Ashley, it's to be expected.

funny because from start I never ever thought that ben and constantine looked alike. Okay there is the same long hair and a lay back attitude but everything else is different. It is very much possible that because we are all used to see the contestant with short hair besides JesseC who you have to admit stood up out of the crowd LOL

Guess if a person is not glued in front of our TV and PC, they might look alike...

True, Titou. I never thought they looked alike either, that's why it made me laugh when they said that. But tyou're right and they are usually not glued to the tube watching every single week either. :giggle:

Titou wrote:The mention of Ben started very late with Lucas.... because Lucas did not like JP and liked ben and constantine better. But even in his exit media interview it was not clear. Most probably at that point each one are asked to mention both names.

Lucas likes JP... don't let his criticism fool you. He just had to put up with all of his moodiness. Over on his own thread, there was a lengthy discussion about this. He is very direct and to the point. (I actually like his personality... others here don't.)

About Ben, Reality Steve even joked about it. Lucas said he might be good for Ashley, but wasn't very specific apart from being laid back. Says JP was falling for her and said Ben would make a great Bachelor. He couldn't make up his mind what to say!