Final Rose Ceremony - Screencaps - Discussion

albean99 wrote:

Ben, in the Taroka Gorges, was only confident about a hometown... he may have known he wasn't final one at that point. He made two "digs" at JP in Taiwan: first by delaying his "we had separate rooms" statement until JP started to leave and later sarcastically telling Ryan that Lucas would bring back the group rose. Ashley Spivey made a snide comment about that on the abc.com commentary, but I think Ben was hinting to Ryan that roses on these group dates are NOT what they seem. She may give you a rose simply to distract others. If Ashley gives you a rose because you "impressed" her at the orphanage date, she may just be giving it to you because Ryan is unpopular and JP too obvious. Same was true with Blake getting it the next week. Ben was irked... and I don't blame him for feeling "played".

Of course, just because you suspect that the "game is over", doesn't mean you don't make a go at it. Constantine drops out, but Ben pushes on and, apparently, proposes to her. I do believe both fijiman and Coastal's sources are correct with their information: Ashley DOES see Ben sometime after the final rose ceremony. Yet, this may be a dot.dot.dot. sort of thing, since Ben might possibly get very, very upset.

I'm just going to comment on this part JBF. I know you're speculating but I disagree for a lot of reasons. Ben is making his own journey at his own pace. I don't believe he's thinking ahead too far because of that so knowing he's getting a HTD was about right for him at that time. If he delayed saying there were 2 rooms it was to torment all the guys and not just JP. I also don't really understand where Ben was being sarcastic when he said he thought Lucas would get the rose. I don't think the others were as JP-centric as you all seem to think. Ames seems to be very shocked he didn't get a rose last episode. The guys knew how JP felt about Ashley because he made it perfectly clear by his actions but they had their own thing going with Ashley and they can't compare how she is with the others. Even if they knew she had something special with JP they also seemed to think she did with Ben and there's no reason for Ben to think differently based on Ashley's interactions with him.

As for the orphanage date, Ben made an impression on Ashley and she wanted to show it and if she really was all about JP by that point she wouldn't have said it all in front of him. Most of the time she goes and gets the rose to give privately. You could tell JP thought he was going to get it but she gave it to Ben instead. Maybe foreshadowing for the FRC? :whistle:

I think the guys knew JP liked Ashley, but not the extent to which their relationship had grown. I think JP played that pretty close to the chest until HK where he let the cat out of the bag that Ashley told him first about Bentley. I bet the guys watching the show now as it airs will be surprised at all that is going on with Ash and JP.

jonsmom98 wrote:I'm going to venture back into the screencaps....I know I've seen a pix of JP wearing the same type watch as the pix for FRC.....oh dear, I'll probably be in there for a while....if I don't surface say in about 4 hours, come look for me....lol

Ummm, just so everyone knows...I still haven't found it...but now I'm off to church....will look later

Bronwyn wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

alsoaktchr wrote:If she lets him start talking, instead of talking first, I think it's more likely to happen. I will not be happy with her.

Doesn't the guy usually start talking first or am I wrong? I remember last season, Brad started talking to Chantal first and in Jillian's season Kiptyn started talking first. I can't remember any women talking first.

Trista talked first to the F2 on her season. I don't know about the Meredith or Jen, but I know from DeAnna on, the guys always talk first.

Thank you, Bronwyn! I had thought so.

Samantharose wrote:

albean99 wrote:

Ben, in the Taroka Gorges, was only confident about a hometown... he may have known he wasn't final one at that point. He made two "digs" at JP in Taiwan: first by delaying his "we had separate rooms" statement until JP started to leave and later sarcastically telling Ryan that Lucas would bring back the group rose. Ashley Spivey made a snide comment about that on the abc.com commentary, but I think Ben was hinting to Ryan that roses on these group dates are NOT what they seem. She may give you a rose simply to distract others. If Ashley gives you a rose because you "impressed" her at the orphanage date, she may just be giving it to you because Ryan is unpopular and JP too obvious. Same was true with Blake getting it the next week. Ben was irked... and I don't blame him for feeling "played".

Of course, just because you suspect that the "game is over", doesn't mean you don't make a go at it. Constantine drops out, but Ben pushes on and, apparently, proposes to her. I do believe both fijiman and Coastal's sources are correct with their information: Ashley DOES see Ben sometime after the final rose ceremony. Yet, this may be a dot.dot.dot. sort of thing, since Ben might possibly get very, very upset.

I'm just going to comment on this part JBF. I know you're speculating but I disagree for a lot of reasons. Ben is making his own journey at his own pace. I don't believe he's thinking ahead too far because of that so knowing he's getting a HTD was about right for him at that time. If he delayed saying there were 2 rooms it was to torment all the guys and not just JP. I also don't really understand where Ben was being sarcastic when he said he thought Lucas would get the rose. I don't think the others were as JP-centric as you all seem to think. Ames seems to be very shocked he didn't get a rose last episode. The guys knew how JP felt about Ashley because he made it perfectly clear by his actions but they had their own thing going with Ashley and they can't compare how she is with the others. Even if they knew she had something special with JP they also seemed to think she did with Ben and there's no reason for Ben to think differently based on Ashley's interactions with him.

As for the orphanage date, Ben made an impression on Ashley and she wanted to show it and if she really was all about JP by that point she wouldn't have said it all in front of him. Most of the time she goes and gets the rose to give privately. You could tell JP thought he was going to get it but she gave it to Ben instead. Maybe foreshadowing for the FRC? :whistle:

I think the guys knew JP liked Ashley, but not the extent to which their relationship had grown. I think JP played that pretty close to the chest until HK where he let the cat out of the bag that Ashley told him first about Bentley. I bet the guys watching the show now as it airs will be surprised at all that is going on with Ash and JP.

You both are right... I am just thinking of possible scenarios here. "Speculating"

The TRUTH is always somewhere in-between opposing "takes" of a situation.

Also, once you have more alone time with the lead, you tend to not notice the connections she has with others. This is why I suspect that Ben may propose in the finale. And, yes, Albean99, we always have... in the back of our minds... that possibility of getting an unexpected surprise! To be Fleissed! (Just kinda doubtful of Ben being the one at this point.)

Things did not go well in Hong Kong, however. The fact that JP knew about Bentley first "spoke volumes". Whether or not that impacted anything in Taiwan is open to debate.

jonsmom98 wrote:

jonsmom98 wrote:I'm going to venture back into the screencaps....I know I've seen a pix of JP wearing the same type watch as the pix for FRC.....oh dear, I'll probably be in there for a while....if I don't surface say in about 4 hours, come look for me....

Ummm, just so everyone knows...I still haven't found it...but now I'm off to church....will look later

Sluething can wait. Have fun at church!

emusha wrote:

JBF wrote:

emusha wrote:what did ashley S say in her commentary jbf?

I wonder if Ben said that because JP was being such a green-eyed monster? =)

There were other comments she makes in that commentary that make me laugh:
(When Ben returns in his shorts and sandles...)

Ben has on such a walk of shame outfit!
Watch out, Ben, JP is murdering you with his eyes!

Later Ashley S. says:

I couldn't see JP actually fighting someone over jealousy.

Both she and Nick have a bit of a "tit for tat" during that group date discussion:
Nick: Anyone else tired of hearing JP complain???
Ash S: I think this late in the process, it is very hard to have fun on group dates. Everyone is starting to have real feelings.
Ash seems to forget that she freaked out on the small group date as well - that date where they shot photos for Sports Illustrated!

Interesting-- you got me thinking why Ben made those comments JBF...

Who knows anything with this sliced and diced show!!

Off topic, but I couldn’t resist adding these lines from episode #7’s abc.com commentary…

Oh tell us how you really feel about these folk!

Nick:

(responding to JP fussing over her dates with other guys) Or so you think...you haven't been on the other one-on-one dates with the other guys.
Ryan doesn't appear as happy-go-lucky this week, does he? Maybe the fact that I'm not around anymore is sinking in!
Thank you for leaving the orange shorts and Adidas shower shoes at home for this date, Constantine!
If your name is on the group date card, Ryan, just pack your stuff.
(responding to Ryan) We know there's a whole lot of energy running through you.
Good to see Ben brushed his hair for his date today!
Whoa, Constantine, what's up with the hair?
OMG Ames are your pants red?
(about Ames) 16...when he entered grad school!
(about JP after being with Ashley) Look who's in a good mood now.
(Ryan) "That's crazy"...is the typical response when you don't care.
Oh, water heaters! Uh oh!
Because you know he won't put up with a shower over 10 minutes long!
Well, last shot to sell her a solar panel.

Ashley S:

I have to say - I think Ryan looks hot with the scruff!
I just don't get the sense from Constantine that he is that into Ashley. When is he going to really bring the romance?
I love how honest Constantine is. He really doesn't seem like he is trying to "win." He wants real feelings to surface. But they better surface!
Ben and Constantine are both reserved with their feelings. I think Ash likes it more when guys are more open with how they feel.
I'm glad he's serious about this. My biggest concern about Ben is that he might not be serious enough. But we'll see.
These are sweet kisses! I wanna see some passion! Stop holding back Ben!
I wonder if Ames and Lucas got jealous as well?
Lucas is a good guy. I just don't know if Ash feels that strongly about him.
I bet Ames' biggest problem with relationships is he overanalyzes everything! Ahhhh the perils of being really smart!
(about JP) It's not fun to see the person you're falling in love with kiss other people.
(JP again) Aww, I want her to meet his family too!
I wish Ryan didn't talk about the relationship as if it were a business deal.
I wish Ryan would stop talking about everything around them and focus on making sure they connect.
Oh Ryan! Water heaters? Bless your heart.
This is a great example of how we can build someone up in our head, but that the reality doesn't always match. If it isn't there, it isn't there.

Bronwyn wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

alsoaktchr wrote:If she lets him start talking, instead of talking first, I think it's more likely to happen. I will not be happy with her.

Doesn't the guy usually start talking first or am I wrong? I remember last season, Brad started talking to Chantal first and in Jillian's season Kiptyn started talking first. I can't remember any women talking first.

Trista talked first to the F2 on her season. I don't know about the Meredith or Jen, but I know from DeAnna on, the guys always talk first.

Meredith spoke first, I am absolutely positive. Not sure about Jen, but I'm guessing based on how it played out that she didn't (she clearly had no interest in getting engaged to either guy and producers knew it). In fact, I suspect that it's as a result of her season that they decided to have the guys speak first, because it guarantees them a better chance of getting more proposals (even ones that will be turned down) than if they allow the Bachelorette to first clue the poor guy in to how she's feeling before he speaks.

I may be remembering wrong but thought the women talked first with the f2 all of the time until maybe DeAnna with Jason.

albean99 wrote:I may be remembering wrong but thought the women talked first with the f2 all of the time until maybe DeAnna with Jason.

I remember Ed definitely spoke first, because he stopped short of proposing by first asking (demanding?) that Jill tell him whether or not she was in love with him before he would go on. Even then, good old Eddie was hedging his bets! Kip and Reid also spoke first, but somehow Kip managed to stop short of proposing before Jill took over. Reid semi-proposed.

I just recently read Ali and Roberto's dialog at FRC and Roberto spoke first, then Ali told him he was the only one there that day, and then he proposed. Sweet. :animated heart

I din't remember Ed demanding that Jill tell him she loved him .
Ed said how he felt about Jill and than said before i go any further ,

I need to know if you love me first . before he proposed . its been a while so i might not have it exactly how it happened .

:hidingchair :loveflower:

rc49ers wrote:I din't remember Ed demanding that Jill tell him she loved him .
Ed said how he felt about Jill and than said before i go any further ,

I need to know if you love me first . before he proposed . its been a while so i might not have it exactly how it happened .

:hidingchair :loveflower:

I was being a little snarky about Ed (not a fan). But yes, you're right, he spoke first, but said he needed to know first if she was in love with him before he would go any further. Wasn't going to take the chance of being shot down with egg on his face.

I don't like that they changed it. They also had the woman talk first and then the "but" came so there was no chance the guy would propose. I think the show started going downhill when they let Jason propose.