Chris Soules - Whitney Bischoff - Bachelor 19 - Discussion

Overall one of the most insightful posts I've read here in a long time - well stated. A few comments:

emusha wrote:yes, it's possible to read compatibility on the show as well and when whitney and chris are concerned, I'm really sad to say but CS seemed to be in a position where he simply had to take the girl that will be OK with moving to Arlington and then he had to make the most of it - he got a wife and his family is happy and she seems fantastic. whether she offers him the "over the top in love" feeling (potentially how infatuated he was with Becca) or the adventurous spirit (Kaitlyn and her dynamism) he made the decision and committed to it. I feel it's premature to label him a fame-whore without any intention of trying to make the relationship work.

I am not necessarily sad to say that I think Chris was in that position - perhaps more that I'm happy for him that he was able to navigate the show experience and find someone who is most likely to give him what IMO he most wanted out of the entire experience - someone who could be committed to make a relationship work and give him a loving family that he always has said he wanted. There were a lot of choices he could have made that wouldn't have resulted in that possibility.

As I watched Chris during the season and tried to listen to what reasons he gave us as for eliminations there weren't too many times where he ended a relationship because he liked someone else more - most of his reasons were that he couldn't see a relationship ending up where he wanted it to go. At the end he was boxed in by choices he had previously made and the show's insistence that there be an F2 but I think he could clearly see reasons why F2 wouldn't have given him the chance for a successful relationship - at least I could see this.

I don't think the fact that he might have "settled" for someone that gives him what he needed more so than what he wanted is necessarily a bad thing. Many people grow to love each other deeper and deeper and marriage is much more than the infatuation phase that this show/hollywood romanticizes. If Whitney and him grow in intimacy and the attraction is there physically -- they could grow to love each other much more.

I need look no farther than Des' season to find a success story that illustrates this, and that's why I said above that I'm really not sad for Chris. In an earlier post I referred to the triangular theory of love and in that, the "infatuation" phase is perhaps the phase with the shortest life span (a couple of months in the opinion of many experts). The fact that without building on the other two points of the triangle a relationship may be short lived is probably one of the biggest reasons that couples formed on this show don't make it in the real world - they just aren't able to (or willing to) make the commitments necessary. This is what makes "Marriage At First Sight" such an interesting social experiment and the fact that out of the 3 couples in the first season there are currently two successful marriages attests to the fact that a commitment to make a relationship work can trump an initial lack of infatuation or passion; I'm watching one relationship in season 2 to see if love comes out of what is an initially notable lack of attraction.

I do see him putting the effort...and I believe he does want it to work. And obviously I also think Whitney wants it reallyyyy badly -- he has the package she wants. I wish him and Whitney all the best and the happiness and the love between them to continue to grow -- however "awkward" may seem to others. Time will ALWAYS tell with the couples.

In spite of the momentary diversion of DWTS I also see where Chris has changed or expressed a willingness to change in order to make the relationship work - most notably his statements that he realizes he can live in two different places - Arlington isn't a non-negotiable given any more.

Like any couple in the real world - time will tell if the glimmers of "something off" are growing into real issues or being addressed to bring the couple closer and more in love together.

Indeed.

mindless wrote:

sara11 wrote:I see this going one of two ways 1) within 3 months of them moving back to the farm permanently, they will split or 2) After 3 months on the farm with Chris, their marriage is a done deal. DWTS is hard on their rship, but imo no where near the difficulties they will face when whitney is initially permanently residing on the farm

ITA with the bolded. I'm going for option 3 though. That is, she never actually moves to the farm and they split amicably soon after the Bachelorette starts airing.

I agree with this and see them "navigating" through real life right now. Their "weird" or "off" BL is because I am sure they are in shock.  Not only because the show ending in an engagement is silly, but once the "bubble" has burst, the s#$t hits the fan and things get real REAL fast.     All IMHO

As always, "time will tell."

Yeah couples grow to love each other and all that, no need to rehash what Emusha and Lucas wrote, but does Whit realize she's going to be in the middle of nowhere with, excuse me, a really inarticulate, boring man that basically settled for her because she desperately wants a family and is ok with Iowa? Seems very sad to me. JMO.

I am not a real romantic person. I also would not want to find myself living in a rural area. However, that is me. 
What I do think is that different strokes for different folks and if you are in love with the person you are with (and there are different stages of love), it makes any circumstances at the least, much more pleasant. If you aren't in love with the person you are with, it makes any circumstance at the best, restricting and unpleasant.
That being said, usually 5 months into a relationship if there are cracks usually something concrete has come up by some source to someone.
 I know in the past this has been so for things I have "heard".  So has anyone heard anything "concrete" yet vs. their own "feelings"?
This would be interesting.

There don't always have to be any big issues or "cracks" for a relationship to fail. It might just be that there isn't enough love there to see yourself with someone for life. I'm still doubting Chris's love, I can't help it. I feel like he wants to love her and has maybe convinced himself that he does, but in the long run, I fear he's gonna realise it's not enough. That's what his behaviour and general demeanor around her tells me. Yes, plenty of people grow to love someone who their head says is right for them, and I feel like that's kind of what happened with Des. But she was in love by the ATFR, you could tell by the way she looked at her Chris and held his hand. I don't see that at all with this Chris. If it was a matter of physical attraction and their personalities were a perfect match, like with certain couples in MAFS, then I would have more faith in them lasting. I just don't see their personalities fitting that well. I have this nagging feeling that Whitney is too mature for Chris. Is she able to let loose? That wedding crashing date still feels like a setup to prove that she can. Why the need to prove it in the first place and why haven't we seen that Whitney after the show? She always seems very much in control and aware of how she presents herself and how she words things. Not that I'm one to judge, since I'm a bit uptight too. But is Chris attracted to that? Watching him goofing off with Witney in rehearsals live every week and then seeing him with Whitney, it's like two different men. The former seems a lot happier. And let's not forget he was attracted to Kaitlyn who took her bottoms off in front of everyone and TV cameras among other things. I think he needs someone who can be silly with him and I don't know if Whitney can. I suspect she needs to always be in control of a situation before she can relax. It's hard to explain, but something's not gelling with those two. JMHO.

I am not trying to put aside anyone's "feelings", I am simply asking if there is anything concrete.

mindless wrote:There don't always have to be any big issues or "cracks" for a relationship to fail. It might just be that there isn't enough love there to see yourself with someone for life. I'm still doubting Chris's love, I can't help it. I feel like he wants to love her and has maybe convinced himself that he does, but in the long run, I fear he's gonna realise it's not enough. That's what his behaviour and general demeanor around her tells me. Yes, plenty of people grow to love someone who their head says is right for them, and I feel like that's kind of what happened with Des. But she was in love by the ATFR, you could tell by the way she looked at her Chris and held his hand. I don't see that at all with this Chris. If it was a matter of physical attraction and their personalities were a perfect match, like with certain couples in MAFS, then I would have more faith in them lasting. I just don't see their personalities fitting that well. I have this nagging feeling that Whitney is too mature for Chris. Is she able to let loose? That wedding crashing date still feels like a setup to prove that she can. Why the need to prove it in the first place and why haven't we seen that Whitney after the show? She always seems very much in control and aware of how she presents herself and how she words things. Not that I'm one to judge, since I'm a bit uptight too. But is Chris attracted to that? Watching him goofing off with Witney in rehearsals live every week and then seeing him with Whitney, it's like two different men. The former seems a lot happier. And let's not forget he was attracted to Kaitlyn who took her bottoms off in front of everyone and TV cameras among other things. I think he needs someone who can be silly with him and I don't know if Whitney can. I suspect she needs to always be in control of a situation before she can relax. It's hard to explain, but something's not gelling with those two. JMHO.

Kashathediva wrote:I am not trying to put aside anyone's "feelings", I am simply asking if there is anything concrete.

I think at the moment you can watch the rehearsals with Chris and Witney so we are getting to see more of that relationship. We are not seeing much of Chris and "his" Whitney other than a snippet here and a fan pic there. Hard to see how much fun they are having with each other when we don't get a chance to see them together in a relaxed setting. While I agree that Whitney likes to be in control of situations before she can relax, there is nothing wrong with that. From what I have seen of Chris, he seems to be pretty easy going for the most part and doesn't look as if he would mind giving control over to Whitney if that is what she needs. Once she is relaxed who knows how much fun they have together.

I think that what some are describing as "off" between these two is that they may not be as outgoing and carefree and media/SM savy as some other couples we have had. I said it ages ago somewhere, but to me, these two just come off as a lot older than any other couple we have had from this franchise...even though they are not. Both of them have serious careers and seem aware of the image they want to present to the world. As a result, IMO they come across as stiff sometime. Chris I think finds it easier to relax and let loose, but I think that comes from his upbringing and happy family life. Whitney had a much more difficult time during her youth with her family and I think that resulted in that need for control. How much fun she is in real life will probably depend on how safe, secure and comfortable she is feeling. (I am like this as well so I can relate. I have had many people tell me that they thought I was uptight when they first met me...until they got to know me and saw me relaxed...and then couldn't believe they ever thought that!)

I agree with Kasha...we usually start hearing stuff if there is anything to hear. Thus far, I don't think we have heard anything concrete...beyond the typical stuff we usually hear. Once they are on the farm, I don't know what we will hear anything unless they announce something themselves. It's not like the paparazzi will be following them there. The best we will be able to do is see if she moves to the farm and perhaps if they are spotted out and about in Chicago or at any upcoming Bachelor related events. Thankfully, Chris' time on DWTS will soon be over and they can get on with it one way or the other and we can move on to the next couple!

Kashathediva wrote:I am not trying to put aside anyone's "feelings", I am simply asking if there is anything concrete.

Nothing that I've seen. Heck even the tabs have left them pretty much alone considering they aren't on rag covers every week with break-up or cheating stories. They have gotten off easy with those stories not manifesting. I imagine much of the lack of interest has to do with them just not being that interesting to the media. Probably not a bad problem to have when you are trying to figure out your relationship.

That is pretty much what I had suspected. 
By this time with other couples, I had heard more objective things why they were or were not working, so I naturally thought maybe I missed something other than intuitive feelings.

Alanna wrote:Yeah couples grow to love each other and all that, no need to rehash what Emusha and Lucas wrote, but does Whit realize she's going to be in the middle of nowhere with, excuse me, a really inarticulate, boring man that basically settled for her because she desperately wants a family and is ok with Iowa? Seems very sad to me. JMO.

I honestly think that Whitney does realize it. I think that's probably why she didn't watch the season, because she had heard mumblings and realized that Chris was more attracted to Britt, Jade, and Becca, but didn't choose them because of some reason or another. I think that she just really, really wants a husband and kids. Most single women at 30 start having that urgency about marriage, and working at a fertility clinic probably made it worse. I guess being second choice worked for both Molly and Chris Siegfried, so I don't think it's necessarily a drealbreaker for Chris/Whitney, but I agree that it's sad. She seems like wonderful person and I feel like she deserves much more.

chasingpavements wrote:

Alanna wrote:Yeah couples grow to love each other and all that, no need to rehash what Emusha and Lucas wrote, but does Whit realize she's going to be in the middle of nowhere with, excuse me, a really inarticulate, boring man that basically settled for her because she desperately wants a family and is ok with Iowa? Seems very sad to me. JMO.

I honestly think that Whitney does realize it. I think that's probably why she didn't watch the season, because she had heard mumblings and realized that Chris was more attracted to Britt, Jade, and Becca, but didn't choose them because of some reason or another. I think that she just really, really wants a husband and kids. Most single women at 30 start having that urgency about marriage, and working at a fertility clinic probably made it worse. I guess being second choice worked for both Molly and Chris Siegfried, so I don't think it's necessarily a drealbreaker for Chris/Whitney, but I agree that it's sad. She seems like wonderful person and I feel like she deserves much more.

Isn't that pretty much the way it is for everyone but the F1?  There's one reason or another that they don't get picked.  Just as there's one reason or another why the F1 is the F1.   Whitney didn't end up in the Final 2 by default.  Chris chose to keep her every single week.  She didn't just sneak in there without him knowing it.   She wasn't the only girl falling in love with him and she wasn't the only girl that was OK with living in Arlington.   She was however the only woman that he knew for sure he was giving a rose to after the FSD's while 2 of the girls that  he was "more attracted to" were dodging darts.        

Chris made it pretty clear that he wanted to walk away with the person that he felt he could make a life with and he wanted that life to start 5 years ago.   I don't think Whitney is the only person in the relationship that has baby rabies.

Sprite wrote:

mindless wrote:There don't always have to be any big issues or "cracks" for a relationship to fail. It might just be that there isn't enough love there to see yourself with someone for life. I'm still doubting Chris's love, I can't help it. I feel like he wants to love her and has maybe convinced himself that he does, but in the long run, I fear he's gonna realise it's not enough. That's what his behaviour and general demeanor around her tells me. Yes, plenty of people grow to love someone who their head says is right for them, and I feel like that's kind of what happened with Des. But she was in love by the ATFR, you could tell by the way she looked at her Chris and held his hand. I don't see that at all with this Chris. If it was a matter of physical attraction and their personalities were a perfect match, like with certain couples in MAFS, then I would have more faith in them lasting. I just don't see their personalities fitting that well. I have this nagging feeling that Whitney is too mature for Chris. Is she able to let loose? That wedding crashing date still feels like a setup to prove that she can. Why the need to prove it in the first place and why haven't we seen that Whitney after the show? She always seems very much in control and aware of how she presents herself and how she words things. Not that I'm one to judge, since I'm a bit uptight too. But is Chris attracted to that? Watching him goofing off with Witney in rehearsals live every week and then seeing him with Whitney, it's like two different men. The former seems a lot happier. And let's not forget he was attracted to Kaitlyn who took her bottoms off in front of everyone and TV cameras among other things. I think he needs someone who can be silly with him and I don't know if Whitney can. I suspect she needs to always be in control of a situation before she can relax. It's hard to explain, but something's not gelling with those two. JMHO.

Kashathediva wrote:I am not trying to put aside anyone's "feelings", I am simply asking if there is anything concrete.

I think at the moment you can watch the rehearsals with Chris and Witney so we are getting to see more of that relationship. We are not seeing much of Chris and "his" Whitney other than a snippet here and a fan pic there. Hard to see how much fun they are having with each other when we don't get a chance to see them together in a relaxed setting. While I agree that Whitney likes to be in control of situations before she can relax, there is nothing wrong with that. From what I have seen of Chris, he seems to be pretty easy going for the most part and doesn't look as if he would mind giving control over to Whitney if that is what she needs. Once she is relaxed who knows how much fun they have together.

I think that what some are describing as "off" between these two is that they may not be as outgoing and carefree and media/SM savy as some other couples we have had. I said it ages ago somewhere, but to me, these two just come off as a lot older than any other couple we have had from this franchise...even though they are not. Both of them have serious careers and seem aware of the image they want to present to the world. As a result, IMO they come across as stiff sometime. Chris I think finds it easier to relax and let loose, but I think that comes from his upbringing and happy family life. Whitney had a much more difficult time during her youth with her family and I think that resulted in that need for control. How much fun she is in real life will probably depend on how safe, secure and comfortable she is feeling. (I am like this as well so I can relate. I have had many people tell me that they thought I was uptight when they first met me...until they got to know me and saw me relaxed...and then couldn't believe they ever thought that!)

I agree with Kasha...we usually start hearing stuff if there is anything to hear. Thus far, I don't think we have heard anything concrete...beyond the typical stuff we usually hear. Once they are on the farm, I don't know what we will hear anything unless they announce something themselves. It's not like the paparazzi will be following them there. The best we will be able to do is see if she moves to the farm and perhaps if they are spotted out and about in Chicago or at any upcoming Bachelor related events. Thankfully, Chris' time on DWTS will soon be over and they can get on with it one way or the other and we can move on to the next couple!

Nice post. I think they are very SM savvy which is why they stay off of it for the most part. I don't really see how knowing how to conduct yourself as a public figure in a public setting equals uptight. IMO, that equals smart and being in possession of a modicum of decorum. Something that is sorely lacking in today's public arena.