Chris Soules - Whitney Bischoff - Bachelor 19 - Discussion

Kashathediva wrote:You're right, no facts there.
However, if they should not have had any scheduled safe house visits--let's take that premise, then wouldn't they have been rescheduled?  
Did TPTB say--NO soup for you?? Now or never and be dam*ed!
I mean why take something unsanctioned then? Something like a safe house visit can always be rescheduled. It's not like either of their jobs would have prevented such.
So not fact, but my logic tells me they took visits that were planned by TPTB and then took what else they wanted.
The whole logic thing, to me is they were offered dessert and it was not sanctioned, but they took more anyway.

Perhaps they wished to spend time on the farm rather than cooped up in some safe house somewhere, so they said no thanks to the producers and met in secret instead? Maybe the two visits to the farm were early on after the engagement and they were on the outs for a while in between? So many options.

I just find it curious that CH seemed so cautious to gush about their relationship when asked if he thinks they'll make it, even bringing up Andi and Josh splitting up. He also kept probing them both about him being conflicted. It's like he knows something that gives him reason to worry. Them skipping safe house visits would certainly be worrying, wouldn't it?

lurker11 wrote:Spending time together even every weekend would be not much time. I don't think whitneys statements point towards no safe house visits.

Well even if they met every two weeks there would still have been at least 7 visits. That's loads compared to the time they had on the show in total. And it's not just what she said, it's how she said it. These are her exact words from this interview:

Interviewer: So you'll have cameras on you again, but is there a nice period of time you guys have had with no cameras where you could actually just be yourselves and enjoy each other?

Whitney: So... in this kind of... this interim between the engagement and last night we've been able to spend some time together, not a lot, because it's been a big secret. Um... so not too much without the cameras around and then we're going right into this (DWTS), but um... I don't know, I think it's all just exciting and a once in a lifetime opportunity so I'm supportive.

She just acted very nervous answering to that question, lots of hands, pauses, gulps. A kinesics expert would have a field day watching her is all I'm saying.

sfrank wrote:

FLChica wrote:And MeandI wanted Nick so much she knocked boots with him in the fantasy suite - before declaring undying love to poor old Josh and accepting that big old Neil Lane ring.  And Des vowed she only loved Brooks - until she accepted Chris's proposal and married him. And Sean told Lindsey, "I love you" - until he proposed to Cat and had their GrownSexy wedding. And Ashley was hopelessly devoted to Bentley and than Ben - until she accepted JP's proposal, married him and had Fordham. 

Andy slept with Bevin before picking Tessa. Ali was heartbroken over Frank  leaving before she choose Roberto.  Jillian needed to talk to CH before deciding she couldn't say yes to Reid and picked ED.  Jason dumped Molly and proposed to Melissa before he dumped her to go back to Molly. We could do this all day. I think it just proves that things arent always black and white. There's confusion and conflicting emotions every season some more than others but it's there - maybe they feel more for one individual above the other but to say its just one person and everyone else is "scripted" is flawed, IMO.

I'm not naive to believe that there aren't storyboards but it's just not realistic to think every lead knows their F1 beyond a shadow of a doubt and there's no conflict. There are feelings involved with both of their finalists, IMO. How could there not be you've met this person's family, you've shared some level of intimacy with them. As many of you have pointed out these aren't actors...the feelings exist on some level. This season I think there was deep conflict within Chris over both women but he made the choice he needed to make.

As with all the aforementioned couples, they live and die on what comes after.
It's possible Whitney and Chris could get married. It's also possible they crash and burn like most couples in the franchise. For now either side can save the "I told you so's" and victory laps- only time will tell.

Ali said in an interview post show that she knew she would pick Roberto the night that they participated in the Broadway Show. IIRC, that was week 3 or 4.

Mike Fliess said in a interview that he was afraid they would have to stop production if they couldn't get Ed to come back. Jillian said that she almost burnt the hotel down the night he left because she had fallen asleep sobbing and didn't blow out the candles in the room. She woke up to a small fire that had to be extinguished. Reid's return at the end was nothing more than smoke and mirrors to show a lead conflicted between their F2.

To bring this back to Chris and Whitney... It's hard for me to put a lot of stock in Chris' conflict at the end because we watched it all season. He was conflicted the first night and almost every rc after. He cried when he sent these girls home. He even cried when he sent Carly home and she had been in the friend zone for weeks. Because there was no conflict between Chris and Whitney the producers had to find it elsewhere. IMO no matter who was in the F2 spot we would have seen the same conflict with Chris. It had been his theme the entire season.

Another reason why I don't believe that all this conflict continued until the FRC was the difference in his demeanor between the MTP dates and his LCD with Whitney. During the MTP dates he was somber and disengaged. He acted like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders but during his LCD with Whitney if felt like the old Chris was back. He was engaged in the conversation, he was laughing and smiling like the weight had been lifted. It felt to me like sometime between MTP and the day with Whitney he had made his decision. I don't believe Chris would have been so carefree with Whitney if he hadn't made his choice. He still had Becca's LCD to get through too. I also believe that if Chris was leaning towards choosing Becca she would have had the LCD at his home instead of a bowling alley.

At the ATFR how Chris acted with Becca was the same way he acted with Jade and Britt. He even made a bee line to Carly for a hug after WTA. I just think that Chris who isn't a word smith uses physical closeness to chase away awkward moments much how he used kissing when he didn't know what to say.

Great post Cindy.

I'm sorry but there is nothing anywhere to suggest that they did not enjoy their regularly planned safe house visits. Just because they didn't specify, doesn't mean that they didn't happen. They did state however, that they planned some of their own. (Sean did the same with sneaking Cat to Dallas.) I suspect they are being very literal. If you were in a normal relationship for four months, you would more than likely be seeing each other every day...or very close to. Compare this to the safe house visits for a few days every couple of weeks. Really not that much time. In addition, they specified they talked on the phone and I think they mentioned video chatting to keep in touch. So there is absolutely no hint that there was any trouble going on in the relationship while the show was airing and certainly nothing since.

Sprite wrote:I'm sorry but there is nothing anywhere to suggest that they did not enjoy their regularly planned safe house visits. Just because they didn't specify, doesn't mean that they didn't happen. They did state however, that they planned some of their own. (Sean did the same with sneaking Cat to Dallas.) I suspect they are being very literal. If you were in a normal relationship for four months, you would more than likely be seeing each other every day...or very close to. Compare this to the safe house visits for a few days every couple of weeks. Really not that much time. In addition, they specified they talked on the phone and I think they mentioned video chatting to keep in touch. So there is absolutely no hint that there was any trouble going on in the relationship while the show was airing and certainly nothing since.

AllAboutLove wrote:- IMO only: Whitney's strategy was supported by the producers
...
given the wedding crashing date was staged and led by Whitney more than Chris
...
the producers did everything to promote and induce a romantic connection between the two
...

JMHO

And also IMO you have hit the nail squarely on the head. I think it was hard to cast for Chris - because of Iowa - and what he was looking for. I think they really stumbled into it when they found Whitney because she checked all the boxes and was probably the only one on the show who did and they had to make some magic happen so that Chris could see that. Sure the wedding crashing date was a set-up and IMO the only one who probably didn't know that was Chris, but it showcased what Whitney brought to the table and it was either the best date Chris had ever been on or one of the best days of his life (I think he's said both) so I would say they (and Whitney) accomplished their mission.

Whitney is a go-getter and a planner. She strikes me as someone who has a visionary board (literally) and will make that visionary board become a reality. That is a great thing. She is a solution seeker to obstacles and proved this by having a strategy for the show and post-show and even in regards to her job.

And I don't see this as a bad thing either; it's not all that common but that's what IMO she's shown both during the show and afterwards. She has the ability to come across as very genuine and I think all the producers had to do was create situations where Chris could see that.

mindless wrote:..

Perhaps they wished to spend time on the farm rather than cooped up in some safe house somewhere, so they said no thanks to the producers and met in secret instead? Maybe the two visits to the farm were early on after the engagement and they were on the outs for a while in between? So many options.

Is this your opinion or is it fact? In all the seasons of TB and 'tte, I've never heard of anyone turning down a safehouse visit. Experienced sleuthers over the years, know exactly when they are scheduled and were able to find pics confirming. Just because they didn't gush about their getaways, doesn't necessarily mean there weren't any. It's different now with SM, they are smart, they know they will be spotted. They probably took every precaution necessary and drove to their destinations. The lack of SM on Whitney's behalf was good speculation on just that. She was incognito. Chris started rehearsing very quickly after FRC so I would imagine it would have not been "alot" of times that they were able to see each other.  

I just find it curious that CH seemed so cautious to gush about their relationship when asked if he thinks they'll make it, even bringing up Andi and Josh splitting up. He also kept probing them both about him being conflicted. It's like he knows something that gives him reason to worry. Them skipping safe house visits would certainly be worrying, wouldn't it?

CH is doing his job. He was probably ticked at CS for not agreeing to his questions earlier about the F2 and wasn't able to create drama with that or with the questions about the unauthorized visits. His way of little digs. CH also said IIRC, "he heard they met without producers knowlege", I'm sure he knew, never mind he heard. JMHO on how I see it.

mindless wrote:

FLChica wrote:

lexforlife wrote: IMO, after the show is when the relationship actually starts.

So true and that is exactly what several Bach couples have admitted! They understand that what happened on the show was just "the show". It's why JP is happily married to Ash after all the Bentley drama on the show. It's why Chris is happily married to Des after the Brooks drama on the show. It's why Cat is happily married to Sean after the ILY to Lindsey on the show. I won't mention the Jason-Molly-Melissa drama. :halo:

Chris & Whitney started life after the show with four days together in Iowa, despite stories to the contrary. Not only did they enjoy producer arranged safe house visits, they had multiple unapproved visits they arranged for themselves. We started hearing reports of Whitney quitting her job or changes with her job in February - after living their new life 3 months after the cameras stopped rolling. They continue to move forward with their life as a couple and are doing so in a loving, mature fashion. To quote Whitney's t-shirt, "positive vibes only".

Did they actually have safe house visits? I don't remember hearing those mentioned or even referenced in any of the interviews this season. Usually the couples say they've seen each other every two weeks, but I haven't heard that this time. Whitney just said she drove down to the farm a couple of times, meaning two. In the Access Hollywood interview she also said they haven't had much time together without the cameras.

I wonder what happened on Thanksgiving. Some source claimed Chris went to Chicago, but I got the impression that he hadn't visited Whitney there since filming. Thanksgiving was also 5 days after the finale, so if they were together for 4 days then it doesn't sound like they spent the holiday together.

This is Whitney we're talking about. Her definition of Not spending much time together is anything less than every day.

I'm assuming that you took the "4 days together" from the interview Chris did when he was at the Paley Center panel. I took that as the amount of time they spent together before the ATFR aired. IIRC, she flew to CA on Wed. or Thurs. so they would have had 4 or so days to spend together before things went crazy. The interviewer was asking if they had been out on any dates and I believe his reply is that they had went on one and ended up taking pics and signing autographs and he realized that he needed a more secluded date location. He also pretty much said that they really hadn't had time fore dates.

We know from past seasons that the lead and their choice spend some time alone (with Handlers) after filming. They may have changed it up since the FRC was in Iowa. Whitney could have been escorted back to Chicago say on Sunday or Monday and Chris went to Chicago later in the week to spend Thanksgiving with her. From the looks of the fields Harvest was essentially done by the time of the FRC.

If the rules of posting on this forum have changed to allow only facts, the mods will be very busy deleting entire threads. 

Here are a few facts regarding the Whitney-Chris-Becca triangle:

On the FRC show, Becca became the 24th rejected contestant. Oops - 25th if we count the double rejection of the contestant that returned. Chris proposed to Whitney, she accepted the gorgeous Neil Lane ring he chose for her and they forsake the "twirl" for a hug-lift.

Post filming while the show was airing, Becca posted on SM about unexpected twists, statement necklaces, etc. Becca is now posting videos of herself with friends singing Britney Spears "I'm A Slave for You", deleting tweets where she quotes Maroon 5's "Unkiss Me" lyrics and pics of herself modeling.  

Post filming while the show was airing, Whitney posted on SM about babies she helped bring to this earth through her work in IVF. Whitney now posts photos of herself with Chris.

No opinions here, just the facts.

GuardianAngel wrote:

mindless wrote:..

Perhaps they wished to spend time on the farm rather than cooped up in some safe house somewhere, so they said no thanks to the producers and met in secret instead? Maybe the two visits to the farm were early on after the engagement and they were on the outs for a while in between? So many options.

Is this your opinion or is it fact? In all the seasons of TB and 'tte, I've never heard of anyone turning down a safehouse visit. Experienced sleuthers over the years, know exactly when they are scheduled and were able to find pics confirming. Just because they didn't gush about their getaways, doesn't necessarily mean there weren't any. It's different now with SM, they are smart, they know they will be spotted. They probably took every precaution necessary and drove to their destinations. The lack of SM on Whitney's behalf was good speculation on just that. She was incognito. Chris started rehearsing very quickly after FRC so I would imagine it would have not been "alot" of times that they were able to see each other.  

Neither, just fictitious scenarios explaining why they could have had unsanctioned visits but not many, if any, sanctioned ones. None of us here know the truth, since it hasn't come up. If they had mentioned meeting even once elsewhere other than the farm those two times, then I wouldn't think twice about it. I just don't think it's correct to assume they've been seeing each other regularly just because past successful, and some unsuccessful, couples have. No proof so far that I've seen or heard. Obviously I'm not saying that they haven't, since that would be an assumption too. Just saying it's all assumptions at the moment.

cindebugg wrote:

mindless wrote:
Did they actually have safe house visits? I don't remember hearing those mentioned or even referenced in any of the interviews this season. Usually the couples say they've seen each other every two weeks, but I haven't heard that this time. Whitney just said she drove down to the farm a couple of times, meaning two. In the Access Hollywood interview she also said they haven't had much time together without the cameras.

I wonder what happened on Thanksgiving. Some source claimed Chris went to Chicago, but I got the impression that he hadn't visited Whitney there since filming. Thanksgiving was also 5 days after the finale, so if they were together for 4 days then it doesn't sound like they spent the holiday together.

This is Whitney we're talking about.  Her definition of Not spending much time together is anything less than every day.

I'm assuming that you took the "4 days together" from the interview Chris did when he was at the Paley Center panel.  I took that as the amount of time they spent together before the ATFR aired.  IIRC, she flew to CA on Wed. or Thurs. so they would have had 4 or so days to spend together before things went crazy.  The interviewer was asking if they had been out on any dates and I believe his reply is that they had went on one and ended up taking pics and signing autographs and he realized that he needed a more secluded date location. He also pretty much said that they really hadn't had time fore dates.

We know from past seasons that the lead and their choice spend some time alone (with Handlers) after filming. They may have changed it up since the FRC was in Iowa.  Whitney could have been escorted back to Chicago say on Sunday or Monday and Chris went to Chicago later in the week to spend Thanksgiving with her.   From the looks of the fields Harvest was essentially done by the time of the FRC.

We're talking about a woman who was ready to marry Chris after spending mere hours in his presence. I would think a couple of days every two weeks or so would a lifetime for her, since it's several weeks in total.

And Chris said "4 days after the final rose", not "4 days before ATFR", so I think he meant back at the farm in November. He didn't even get to LA until late Friday night or Saturday morning since he was at that pig farming convention in Texas, so they couldn't have spent 4 days together before the finale aired.

GuardianAngel wrote:I've never heard of anyone turning down a safehouse visit.

GA neither have I. The fact that we can't always track where and when they occur doesn't mean anything more than that we can't track them; it doesn't mean they didn't happen.

In this particular case we know that Whitney owns a condo in Chicago which is easy driving distance from Iowa and a good hideout if they chose to stay there; but that's not the only place they could have met.

Traditionally the lead is not even supposed to tell their family the ending, although I think we know of times that was violated (Catherine's visit to Dallas at Christmas time comes to mind). But this season we also learned something a bit unusual when the ATFR aired - and that was that Chris' parents knew who he picked the day of the FRC because they were filmed by the production crew celebrating with Chris and Whitney. That had to be at least sanctioned by production even if it wasn't the show's idea (which IMO is a distinct possibility). That Chris' parents knew all along opens up another set of possible locations for secret getaways because there's no point in keeping a secret from people who already know the secret. This just sort of makes me go "Hmm..." as I think back on some of the clues we got from friends of Chris' Mom; there's a good chance at least a close circle of Arlington folks know and were pretty good at keeping a secret.

Lucas15 wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:- IMO only: Whitney's strategy was supported by the producers
...
given the wedding crashing date was staged and led by Whitney more than Chris
...
the producers did everything to promote and induce a romantic connection between the two
...
JMHO

And also IMO you have hit the nail squarely on the head. I think it was hard to cast for Chris - because of Iowa - and what he was looking for. I think they really stumbled into it when they found Whitney because she checked all the boxes and was probably the only one on the show who did and they had to make some magic happen so that Chris could see that. Sure the wedding crashing date was a set-up and IMO the only one who probably didn't know that was Chris, but it showcased what Whitney brought to the table and it was either the best date Chris had ever been on or one of the best days of his life (I think he's said both) so I would say they (and Whitney) accomplished their mission.

Whitney is a go-getter and a planner. She strikes me as someone who has a visionary board (literally) and will make that visionary board become a reality. That is a great thing. She is a solution seeker to obstacles and proved this by having a strategy for the show and post-show and even in regards to her job.

And I don't see this as a bad thing either; it's not all that common but that's what IMO she's shown both during the show and afterwards. She has the ability to come across as very genuine and I think all the producers had to do was create situations where Chris could see that.

Regarding the bolded: Having watched the show and post-show (ATFR) I will say that that "accomplished their mission" aptly describes what I saw the whole season/post-show: a girl and producers (and to an extent even Chris and his family) were all on a mission to get a proposal -- wife not girlfriend -- at the end of the show.

Whitney's expression during Rose Ceremonies from the first to the last (and in particular the FSD rose ceremony) was an expression of "game-face on!" and "I will accomplish this mission" (and I think that is how she is in life). She was able to "surprise" Chris with a staged wedding crashing date and in turn Chris was able to "surprise" Whitney with a mural date and meeting his friends -- all in public -- as most of those dates were and thus the narrative was already set before the show even was edited or aired (even the staged wedding was on the bride's SM and all public).

Like you said, mission accomplished.

Whitney (they) wanted a proposal from the moment she stepped out the limo and she pushed through to make it happen. IMO, in the end, the producers cared most about that ending - getting that ring on someone's finger! Whitney was the only viable candidate for a proposal to a farmer in Iowa and she was "game" from the get-go.

If Chris' feelings for his F2 were indeed real (or more deeper than his F1) then the producers would have tried to push his F2 (just as Chris' mother did) to get the F2 to be proposal ready - because that is all that mattered in the end. If that didn't happen, at least there was a storyboard that would produce a proposal.

And that, IMO, is in part the reason that Whitney's dates were ALL, every one of them, Pro-proposal from the get-go. That's the storyboard (JMO).

But again, to clarify, this doesn't mean W+C and their feelings or commitment to one another is not real... time tells all anyway and if Whitney has the same game-plan as she had throughout the show she will push for a wedding. If she doesn't push for a wedding (post DWTS) -- then that is the red flag I will be looking for... because I firmly believe that the future of these two is dependent on Whitney (in a positive way).

JMHO

mindless wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:

mindless wrote:..

Perhaps they wished to spend time on the farm rather than cooped up in some safe house somewhere, so they said no thanks to the producers and met in secret instead? Maybe the two visits to the farm were early on after the engagement and they were on the outs for a while in between? So many options.

Is this your opinion or is it fact? In all the seasons of TB and 'tte, I've never heard of anyone turning down a safehouse visit. Experienced sleuthers over the years, know exactly when they are scheduled and were able to find pics confirming. Just because they didn't gush about their getaways, doesn't necessarily mean there weren't any. It's different now with SM, they are smart, they know they will be spotted. They probably took every precaution necessary and drove to their destinations. The lack of SM on Whitney's behalf was good speculation on just that. She was incognito. Chris started rehearsing very quickly after FRC so I would imagine it would have not been "alot" of times that they were able to see each other.  

Neither, just fictitious scenarios explaining why they could have had unsanctioned visits but not many, if any, sanctioned ones. None of us here know the truth, since it hasn't come up. If they had mentioned meeting even once elsewhere other than the farm those two times, then I wouldn't think twice about it. I just don't think it's correct to assume they've been seeing each other regularly just because past successful, and some unsuccessful, couples have. No proof so far that I've seen or heard. Obviously I'm not saying that they haven't, since that would be an assumption too. Just saying it's all assumptions at the moment.

cindebugg wrote:

mindless wrote:
Did they actually have safe house visits? I don't remember hearing those mentioned or even referenced in any of the interviews this season. Usually the couples say they've seen each other every two weeks, but I haven't heard that this time. Whitney just said she drove down to the farm a couple of times, meaning two. In the Access Hollywood interview she also said they haven't had much time together without the cameras.

I wonder what happened on Thanksgiving. Some source claimed Chris went to Chicago, but I got the impression that he hadn't visited Whitney there since filming. Thanksgiving was also 5 days after the finale, so if they were together for 4 days then it doesn't sound like they spent the holiday together.

This is Whitney we're talking about.  Her definition of Not spending much time together is anything less than every day.

I'm assuming that you took the "4 days together" from the interview Chris did when he was at the Paley Center panel.  I took that as the amount of time they spent together before the ATFR aired.  IIRC, she flew to CA on Wed. or Thurs. so they would have had 4 or so days to spend together before things went crazy.  The interviewer was asking if they had been out on any dates and I believe his reply is that they had went on one and ended up taking pics and signing autographs and he realized that he needed a more secluded date location. He also pretty much said that they really hadn't had time fore dates.

We know from past seasons that the lead and their choice spend some time alone (with Handlers) after filming. They may have changed it up since the FRC was in Iowa.  Whitney could have been escorted back to Chicago say on Sunday or Monday and Chris went to Chicago later in the week to spend Thanksgiving with her.   From the looks of the fields Harvest was essentially done by the time of the FRC.

We're talking about a woman who was ready to marry Chris after spending mere hours in his presence. I would think a couple of days every two weeks or so would a lifetime for her, since it's several weeks in total.

And Chris said "4 days after the final rose", not "4 days before ATFR", so I think he meant back at the farm in November. He didn't even get to LA until late Friday night or Saturday morning since he was at that pig farming convention in Texas, so they couldn't have spent 4 days together before the finale aired.

Chris isn't really good at math. He has said several times in interviews that it's been 2 months since the FRC and it's actually been more along the lines of 4. I still think he was talking about the time he and Whitney spent in LA before the finale.