Chris Soules - Whitney Bischoff - Bachelor 19 - Discussion

bleuberry wrote:I don't buy into the big conflict just because Becca almost went home the week prior. If there was a conflict, it was over the f2/f3 role.

Sprite wrote:

mindless wrote:I believe there was a conflict simply because his feelings for Becca were stronger at the time. Simple as that. The heart wants what it wants. But in the end he realised, with plenty of help from his family, that she might never even return his feelings, let alone be ready for the life he was offering. He couldn't risk ending up with nothing, when there was someone great offering him everything he wanted. I have no doubt in my mind that he considered it though, since Becca was what his heart wanted. Even his mom told her that it's up to her, and basically told her not to screw things up for him and Whitney if she wasn't totally in. I don't know how people can totally ignore that all his family seemed to be thinking he was leaning towards Becca. That's why the sisters were so worried and hostile too. They were really scared he'd let Whitney go. JMO.  

Personally, I didn't think his sisters were being hostile...they were being realistic. Just as I didn't think Whitney's sister was being hostile. They forced her to answer truthfully and made her think. Obviously some thought they were being nasty about it, but what do you do with someone who answers that she doesn't know for every hard question asked?

I also think that Becca was not in the bubble and was being realistic. How can you answer those type of question when you have only known the man for a couple of months. That is why I admire Becca so much she kepts it real.

Kashathediva wrote:This^^
I think I have more conflict over whether I am going with Chinese for dinner or Italian.

I think this post should be nominated for the one-liner of the week award.

Kashathediva wrote:
I never saw Chris taking the risk of what could be with what was when what was was what he wanted. (follow that one?)
He knew what he was doing in Bali. The dart was for F2 or F3 placement.
I agree. I like Becca. She went on this show with her head on straight and continued to keep it that way. Kudos!

I think of all the choices Chris was offered, he picked the one most ready to become a wife and a mother and the one most likely to pull up stakes and raise her family in Arlington; which IMHO shows that he was sincere in what he was looking for and made the best choice he could have made. I never saw him risking that and I suspect Whitney knew at the end that she was F1.

What made me go back and re-watch the F3 RC in Bali was just to get a better handle on the dart throwing comment. I am more convinced than ever that the choice was between Kaitlin and Becca for the second rose; the one he was sure about was Whitney. As I watched him struggle to answer Kaitlin's question "What just happened" it made me think that the reason he had no answer for her was that it probably wasn't his choice - it was the show's choice because by then they wanted Kaitlin for The Bachelorette - and in fact they picked her for that role (well sort of - at least it appears to have ended up that way). He couldn't give her the real reason and so he mumbled and stumbled.

I also like Becca; I think she's a wonderful girl and I give her tremendous credit for sticking to her guns and keeping her wits about her. At that time in her life she just wasn't ready for what Chris wanted which made Whitney a far better choice, but someday Becca will find someone that she is in love with and when she does there will be no doubt in her mind.

Sprite wrote:

mindless wrote:I believe there was a conflict simply because his feelings for Becca were stronger at the time. Simple as that. The heart wants what it wants. But in the end he realised, with plenty of help from his family, that she might never even return his feelings, let alone be ready for the life he was offering. He couldn't risk ending up with nothing, when there was someone great offering him everything he wanted. I have no doubt in my mind that he considered it though, since Becca was what his heart wanted. Even his mom told her that it's up to her, and basically told her not to screw things up for him and Whitney if she wasn't totally in. I don't know how people can totally ignore that all his family seemed to be thinking he was leaning towards Becca. That's why the sisters were so worried and hostile too. They were really scared he'd let Whitney go. JMO.  

Personally, I didn't think his sisters were being hostile...they were being realistic. Just as I didn't think Whitney's sister was being hostile. They forced her to answer truthfully and made her think. Obviously some thought they were being nasty about it, but what do you do with someone who answers that she doesn't know for every hard question asked?

I didn't mean they were being hostile while talking to Becca, more in the their talking heads and when talking to Chris about her. And they didn't have to force Becca to answer truthfully, since she was doing that herself. Maybe hostile is not the right word, but they had a very negative attitude and I totally understand why. I just think it stems from the fact that they were truly scared Chris was gonna pick her and get his heart broken. If they thought he was leaning towards Whitney, there would have been no need for the attitude. People only get like that when they perceive someone as a threat. Then there were his mom's words, and dad's words and BIL's words, him asking Becca why she's not in love with him, begging her to be honest with him, which is not the typical scripted encouragement to share one's feelings, but a man in love trying to figure out if he's being led on. Oh and at ATFR he said he felt like he was always one step ahead with his feelings and Becca was trying to catch up. Becca was falling in love at the end, which means Chris was in love, since he was one step ahead. JMO.

Anyway, this is getting off topic, but the conflict or lack thereof was brought up, so just wanted to explain why I think he was conflicted. I doubt he is anymore though. I think he's convinced himself that it was never gonna work with Becca, and now he has DWTS to keep his mind off any Bachelor related thoughts. He's having the time of his life and he's making life-long memories with Whitney. Hopefully they'll be a tight unit by the time it's over.

bleuberry wrote:I don't buy into the big conflict just because Becca almost went home the week prior. If there was a conflict, it was over the f2/f3 role.

That's how I see it as well. I remember reading that the show producers reportedly fought (loudly and vehemently) over Becca as the next Bachelorette and this was ultimately resolved because they concluded that she couldn't pull off that role (where you have to lead everyone but one on at the end). IMHO Becca was slotted to leave at F3 if they decided she would be the next Bachelorette and once they decided that was a no-go she became F2 and Chris just had to deal with it. That was what lead to the dart board comment in Bali because that's when this all had to be decided - to set the stage for the next season. IMO Whitney was F1 sometime before HTD and the rest was all TV - not reality.

This is what I think. ^

Lucas15 wrote:

bleuberry wrote:I don't buy into the big conflict just because Becca almost went home the week prior. If there was a conflict, it was over the f2/f3 role.

That's how I see it as well. I remember reading that the show producers reportedly fought (loudly and vehemently) over Becca as the next Bachelorette and this was ultimately resolved because they concluded that she couldn't pull off that role (where you have to lead everyone but one on at the end). IMHO Becca was slotted to leave at F3 if they decided she would be the next Bachelorette and once they decided that was a no-go she became F2 and Chris just had to deal with it. That was what lead to the dart board comment in Bali because that's when this all had to be decided - to set the stage for the next season. IMO Whitney was F1 sometime before HTD and the rest was all TV - not reality.

I really don't think the Bachelorette was decided during taping. CH said Becca's name was brought into the discussion, not that they fought over her, the fight was between Kaitlyn and Britt and supposedly until the last minute. I think Becca was only considered after most of the show had aired and they realised how much viewers liked her, but the thought was dismissed because they figured she couldn't handle it. I think the main reason was that she couldn't fall in love in two months, so it was a "risk for the network". They didn't know back in Bali that she wouldn't even say ILY.

I do believe Whitney's rose wasn't in question, because I think he knew that she's the one he should pick. On the FD he tried hard to find out if she really was being realistic and serious about everything, and she gave the perfect answers, so obviously he had no reason to consider sending her home. Becca, however, apparently gave answers he didn't want to hear, so he got scared. His feelings for her were rapidly developing and he probably pictured getting his heart broken by her. I still don't think she was ever truly in danger. He was never gonna pick Kaitlyn, if for no other reason than the fact that she's Canadian and he can't even enter Canada due to his DIU. If anything was scripted drama it was the whole taking Becca away in the middle of the rose ceremony. JMO.

sfrank wrote:
Chris is with Whitney and that's fine. I just don't get why it's necessary to craft a narrative thats false.
I've yet to hear Chris say once that Whitney was the frontrunner all along or the one early one...but then I haven't dedicated hours to read everything from and about this couple so please do enlighten me if such quotes do in fact exist.

Chris says that he tried to keep each relationship separate and I think that he really took that advice from TPTB to heart with six of his final seven woman ... and I am leaving out Carly as I think she was always in his friend zone. I definitely can recall times during the season of Chris with Becca, with Kaitlyn, with Jade, with Britt and even with Megan when he looked just delighted and giddy. Yet each relationship went the distance that it was supposed to go except IMO ... Kaitlyn (NOT Becca).

I honestly think that he would have taken Kaitlyn to F2 but was most likely pressured to let her go so she could be T'd up for Bachelorette. He could not give Kaitlyn a reason why he was letting her go because I honestly don't think he was ready to let her go yet (and he sure as heck could not say on TV ... "Umm, Fleiss wants you for next lead.")

Chris had NO PROBLEM telling Becca why he was letting her go at FRC. Yes, that last episode Chris was a bundle of nerves and frustration and working very hard to get to Becca to another level (which IMO TPTB pressured him to do as it was HIS JOB to get these women to fall in love with him AND also because he did like Becca very much and wanted to take the relationship as far as he could).

BUT COME ON ... There is a reason why we saw so very little of Becca and Chris' dates. Not because they were hiding some AMAZING love story. If Chris and Becca had tons of chemistry, we would have seen every second of it.

TPTB certainly showed us that with other F2's: Andi & Nick; Emily & Arie; Brad & Chantal; Dr. Andy & Bevin, JuanPab & Clare and even to some degree Sean & Lindsey. When the F2 of these season's left, they were devastated and in tears. The lead made each of these F2 think they were #1 so they left the FRC shocked.

Becca, on the other hand, wins the prize for the F2 that had the absolute LEAST emotion at FRC. Shoot, she was more together than some of the women who left after the first RC. Becca was posting pictures the very next day all smiles with her family. I can recall that some Becca fans thinking this was proof that she was F1. Shoot, Becca said in a post show interview they could double date some day. Becca was just not that into him and therefore, how could he fall madly & deeply into her?? He couldn't! He didn't! Chris was NOT thinking of Becca when he was picking out the ring with Neil Lane, that's for sure. Just ask Neil. Chris was excited about Whitney.

WHITNEY ... he treated his relationship separate with her and IMO she was always his favorite. He realized they were a great team from the start. They had fantastic chemistry all along. They melted into each other's arms. They were partners on the rafting trip and wedding crash date. They had fun together at every destination (thank you for the deleted scenes). He treated her differently with mural, meeting friends and going to his house on LCD. They were exactly on same page about passion for career, for family/marriage, for living in Midwest (plus cheering on Chicago teams) and for each other as evidence by Whitney's "check please" prior to FSD!

Chris and Whitney seem to still be on the same page today ... four months after the proposal. Whitney says "we" are doing DWTS. Chris is giddy with happiness for her and loves to call her "my fiancée." And, Whitney says today that she is happy that Chris took each prior relationship, even with sweet Becca, to its fullest because Chris was confident that she was the one for him.

MVM, That is the best post of the whole TB series an you are point on. You an Lucas15 have been spot on through the whole series and I have enjoyed your post immensely. I don't know about your sleuthing ability, but you have the ability to read the participants.

Thank you both.

I never saw much chemistry with Kaitlyn. Maybe early on, but once they started kissing it was just awkward pecks. She was in the friend zone too IMO. I think she would have left at F4, if Jade hadn't revealed her big secret. I'm not sure if they had sex in the FS, but if they did, that would explain why Chris didn't know what to tell her. "Thanks for the lay, but I like the virgin better"? Yeah, no. And she wasn't really heartbroken either, just humiliated, IMO. The performance at ATFR was for the benefit of becoming the Bachelorette.

As for Neil Lane, Chris couldn't pick a ring for Becca even if he wanted to, because she'd said she wouldn't accept a proposal. So obviously he was thinking of Whitney while picking the ring. My question is, why didn't he call Whitney's sister for her blessing, if he was so sure about Whitney? I'm sure producers had her number. Maybe because he wasn't entirely 100% sure at that point? Maybe a tiny part of him was still hoping Becca would enter the barn and tell him she's in love? Just a thought.

mindless wrote:I never saw much chemistry with Kaitlyn. Maybe early on, but once they started kissing it was just awkward pecks. She was in the friend zone too IMO. I think she would have left at F4, if Jade hadn't revealed her big secret. I'm not sure if they had sex in the FS, but if they did, that would explain why Chris didn't know what to tell her. "Thanks for the lay, but I like the virgin better"? Yeah, no. And she wasn't really heartbroken either, just humiliated, IMO. The performance at ATFR was for the benefit of becoming the Bachelorette.

As for Neil Lane, Chris couldn't pick a ring for Becca even if he wanted to, because she'd said she wouldn't accept a proposal. So obviously he was thinking of Whitney while picking the ring. My question is, why didn't he call Whitney's sister for her blessing, if he was so sure about Whitney? I'm sure producers had her number. Maybe because he wasn't entirely 100% sure at that point? Maybe a tiny part of him was still hoping Becca would enter the barn and tell him she's in love? Just a thought.

Do we know for a fact that he didn't? I don't remember reading/hearing the answer to this question anywhere in any of the interviews post show. Did I miss that? That is actually one of the questions I most want to know the answer to.

MVMom39forever wrote:

sfrank wrote:
Chris is with Whitney and that's fine. I just don't get why it's necessary to craft a narrative thats false.
I've yet to hear Chris say once that Whitney was the frontrunner all along or the one early one...but then I haven't dedicated hours to read everything from and about this couple so please do enlighten me if such quotes do in fact exist.

Chris says that he tried to keep each relationship separate and I think that he really took that advice from TPTB to heart with six of his final seven woman ... and I am leaving out Carly as I think she was always in his friend zone. I definitely can recall times during the season of Chris with Becca, with Kaitlyn, with Jade, with Britt and even with Megan when he looked just delighted and giddy. Yet each relationship went the distance that it was supposed to go except IMO ... Kaitlyn (NOT Becca).  

I honestly think that he would have taken Kaitlyn to F2 but was most likely pressured to let her go so she could be T'd up for Bachelorette. He could not give Kaitlyn a reason why he was letting her go because I honestly don't think he was ready to let her go yet (and he sure as heck could not say on TV ... "Umm, Fleiss wants you for next lead.")

Chris had NO PROBLEM telling Becca why he was letting her go at FRC. Yes, that last episode Chris was a bundle of nerves and frustration and working very hard to get to Becca to another level (which IMO TPTB pressured him to do as it was HIS JOB to get these women to fall in love with him AND also because he did like Becca very much and wanted to take the relationship as far as he could).

BUT COME ON ... There is a reason why we saw so very little of Becca and Chris' dates. Not because they were hiding some AMAZING love story. If Chris and Becca had tons of chemistry, we would have seen every second of it.

TPTB certainly showed us that with other F2's: Andi & Nick; Emily & Arie; Brad & Chantal; Dr. Andy & Bevin, JuanPab & Clare and even to some degree Sean & Lindsey. When the F2 of these season's left, they were devastated and in tears. The lead made each of these F2 think they were #1 so they left the FRC shocked.

Becca, on the other hand, wins the prize for the F2 that had the absolute LEAST emotion at FRC.  Shoot, she was more together than some of the women who left after the first RC. Becca was posting pictures the very next day all smiles with her family. I can recall that some Becca fans thinking this was proof that she was F1. Shoot, Becca said in a post show interview they could double date some day. Becca was just not that into him and therefore, how could he fall madly & deeply into her?? He couldn't! He didn't! Chris was NOT thinking of Becca when he was picking out the ring with Neil Lane, that's for sure. Just ask Neil. Chris was excited about Whitney.

WHITNEY ... he treated his relationship separate with her and IMO she was always his favorite. He realized they were a great team from the start. They had fantastic chemistry all along. They melted into each other's arms. They were partners on the rafting trip and wedding crash date. They had fun together at every destination (thank you for the deleted scenes). He treated her differently with mural, meeting friends and going to his house on LCD. They were exactly on same page about passion for career, for family/marriage, for living in Midwest (plus cheering on Chicago teams) and for each other as evidence by Whitney's "check please" prior to FSD!

Chris and Whitney seem to still be on the same page today ... four months after the proposal. Whitney says "we" are doing DWTS. Chris is giddy with happiness for her and loves to call her "my fiancée." And, Whitney says today that she is happy that Chris took each prior relationship, even with sweet Becca, to its fullest because Chris was confident that she was the one for him.
 

This is your opinion not facts we will never know what truly happened. If you go back to the AFTR there is no doubt in my mind that he loved Becca but he chose with his head and picked Whitney. Whitney is a great girl and I wish her the best. JMO