Bachelor 19 - Whitney Bischoff #2

Aunties_Love wrote:

umngirl wrote:Does anyone remember which RC or cocktail party it was at that Chris uses the word wife and then it pans to Whitney or it's said over a shot of Whitney? I know it happened at least once.

I know I saw it over Becca many times but not Whitney.  If I missed it, I apologize.

I know it has done it for Whitney. I'd have to look at what exactly what rose ceremonies though. I believe the one in Deadwood was one.

chasingpavements wrote:

Diana wrote:I don't think he was acting but every single lead has to bring a girl to the final two no matter how much that person would never be final one. I don't think he was toying with her emotions I just think he realized Whitney is the real deal.

You don't have to say "I'm falling for you", if you are just bringing someone to the F2 as a formality. Lots of leads haven't. I think that, no matter who Chris picks, he did have feelings for both women and did start falling for both of them. Or, at least, he thought so in the "Bachelor bubble".I don't think that he would purposely lie about that just to make good TV. Some leads do take the lying too far (like JP telling Clare that they would have kids in a year), but let's hope Chris didn't.

If the lead wants to say " I'm falling in love with you to his f1, he has to say it to at least one other girl as well , to keep the viewers guessing and to create doubt. ( this time they edited out him saying it to Whitney but I'm sure he did). Certain question and actions are repeated with more then one person but only truly meant for one.

Jolena wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

Diana wrote:I don't think he was acting but every single lead has to bring a girl to the final two no matter how much that person would never be final one. I don't think he was toying with her emotions I just think he realized Whitney is the real deal.

You don't have to say "I'm falling for you", if you are just bringing someone to the F2 as a formality. Lots of leads haven't. I think that, no matter who Chris picks, he did have feelings for both women and did start falling for both of them. Or, at least, he thought so in the "Bachelor bubble".I don't think that he would purposely lie about that just to make good TV. Some leads do take the lying too far (like JP telling Clare that they would have kids in a year), but let's hope Chris didn't.

If the lead wants to say " I'm falling in love with you to his f1, he has to say it to at least one other girl as well , to keep the viewers guessing  and to create doubt. ( this time they edited out him saying it to Whitney but I'm sure he did). Certain question and actions are repeated with more then one person but only truly meant for one.

Not necessarily. They can just edit it out, or the lead can just tell the F1 in the fantasy suite. We know from post-show interviews that Ashley told JP that she loved him before he told her, which I'm pretty sure that was before the fantasy suite but we never saw it. And, she never told Ben that she loved him. Even Brad only told Emily that he was falling for her (which they did show), so I really don't think the lead is obligated to say "I'm falling for you" to multiple contestants. If he says it, he means it or he's being unnecessarily cruel.

chasingpavements wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

lurker11 wrote:I haven't Just more to write about/look for if you're trying to prove the spoiled F2 is the F1.

I've also learned it's a losing battle to try and convince people about body language and such when people have their minds made up

Personally, I was on the fence for a long time.  Up and until epi 6 actually when Whit was on the date where Britt got the time at the concert.  Was kissing Chris right in front of Whit and also Whit got in on the drama and nasty looks.  That is when I started realizing that something wasn't adding up with the spoilers.  Personally, I started looking at the SM clues and they were adding up to Becca as being F1.  I still didn't actually have my mind completely made up till the HTD and the editing that was beginning to happen.  I realized that Whit didn't have a story anymore....there were NO obstacles, Whit was petering out in the storylines and their relationship was stalling.  Becca's though had continued.  With Becca, there was a constant momemtum forward....with Whit, nothing new was happening, nothing was progressing.  Those are some of the reasons why I feel that Becca is the F1.  I also tend to feel that there is more doubt onto Becca as being the F1 with Chris's family and edit, therefore, that is usually a F1 stance too.  The F2 usually is edited with no doubts going into the MTP....Whit seems to be getting that edit this time.

The one thing I do know is that I have/do like both of the F2.  Hope I am explaining myself and not coming across badly here  

Yeah, that's the one thing that I keep thinking about, but I feel like that's been changing recently. I remember Chris (in Des's season), Nikki, and Jef being very confident in the last two weeks.

In Des's season, I don't think that they edited Chris any way at all cause he was the only one to meet Des's parents. Kind of hard to edit him one way and someone else another when he's the only one that met her family.

Aunties_Love wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:
Personally, I was on the fence for a long time.  Up and until epi 6 actually when Whit was on the date where Britt got the time at the concert.  Was kissing Chris right in front of Whit and also Whit got in on the drama and nasty looks.  That is when I started realizing that something wasn't adding up with the spoilers.  Personally, I started looking at the SM clues and they were adding up to Becca as being F1.  I still didn't actually have my mind completely made up till the HTD and the editing that was beginning to happen.  I realized that Whit didn't have a story anymore....there were NO obstacles, Whit was petering out in the storylines and their relationship was stalling.  Becca's though had continued.  With Becca, there was a constant momemtum forward....with Whit, nothing new was happening, nothing was progressing.  Those are some of the reasons why I feel that Becca is the F1.  I also tend to feel that there is more doubt onto Becca as being the F1 with Chris's family and edit, therefore, that is usually a F1 stance too.  The F2 usually is edited with no doubts going into the MTP....Whit seems to be getting that edit this time.

The one thing I do know is that I have/do like both of the F2.  Hope I am explaining myself and not coming across badly here  

Yeah, that's the one thing that I keep thinking about, but I feel like that's been changing recently. I remember Chris (in Des's season), Nikki, and Jef being very confident in the last two weeks.

In Des's season, I don't think that they edited Chris any way at all cause he was the only one to meet Des's parents.  Kind of hard to edit him one way and someone else another when he's the only one that met her family.

Just in general, Chris got a very over-confident edit, saying things like 'I would be shocked if anything got in the way of the relationship we have built", "I am confident that Des will be my wife". In the past, any contestant who said something like that was about to get dumped.

chasingpavements wrote:Yeah, that's the one thing that I keep thinking about, but I feel like that's been changing recently. I remember Chris (in Des's season), Nikki, and Jef being very confident in the last two weeks.

Don't forget Catherine from Sean's season who was also confident at the end. After the show aired she admitted that she knew she was going to be F1.

grace8136 wrote:How do you explain away what his dad said?

Until we see what he said in context of the episode instead of a 3 second clip in the preview I wouldn't try to explain it in any way at all. The previews for the MTP / LCD are always some of the most misleading previews of the entire season. Good or bad, the show loves to leave viewers in suspense and split in their opinions - so they tune in to watch to see what really happens.

The MTP dates often attempt to create a "split decision" between F1 and F2 where one side of the lead's family will favor one contestant and another side will favor the other. That's rarely reality IMO - it's just the way the episode is edited. On Sean's season for example, Sean's mother was so convinced that Sean was in love with both the final women she was advising him he didn't need to make a decision if he wasn't sure. Sean was absolutely positive he was going to pick Catherine at that point but he even fooled his mother.

Ladybug82 wrote:Hi Lex!  hi

Becca was seen at Disney during the day, but no sitings of her last night to confirm or deny her whereabouts.  She's been hanging out with Kaitlyn today.  So who knows...

If Chris is preparing for DWTS, then her staying busy during the day wouldn't be a big issue.  Wish we had a siting of Whitney somewhere.

lexforlife wrote:  @Diana wrote:Becca's hanging out with Kaitlyn today. So any ideas what Whitney is up to?

Was Becca in LA during the WTA taping because if she was and was hanging out with the women, then IMO, she is not the F1- many of the finalists that were seen or rumored to be around the other women or men during the W/MTA have all turned out to be f2(in the american version of the show).

tennischick80 wrote:I don't think Whitney is away with friends...total RED HERRING.

KB_Mom wrote:I am on board with the thought that the supposed beach trip was a red herring (forget who said it first or I would give credit). Very suspicious that she was gone weekend of WTA and now is back. I have my doubts she was in DR

Lex, Tennis and KB mom, I see what you are saying but I am wondering why would Whit post pics of the girls that were supposedly going to DR with her if she didn't go in the first place. It doesn't really make sense as if one of those girlfriends begins to walk around Chicago after Whit is supposedly in DR, then that seems bogus to me. I do believe that she went with her girlfriends. I do believe also that Chris had been in LA as long as Becca was. I think that Becca was only out with Kaitlyn and NOT with any others so not a typical F2 scenario as she hadn't been out with the other women on that weekend AT ALL. IMO, Becca is F1. To me, there just isn't the SM and editing clues that point to Whitney as F1 right now.

I agree with Ladybug. Not only that but Chris doing DWTS does point more to me as being more convenient to him and Becca versus him and Whit. Not only that but since he had gone to talk to Sean, IMO it was a duel purpose...because of Becca and because of DWTS.

Diana wrote:I don't think he was acting but every single lead has to bring a girl to the final two no matter how much that person would never be final one. no idea I don't think he was toying with her emotions I just think he realized Whitney is the real deal.

I am curious as to what (besides the spoilers) makes you think Whitney is F1. I do remember Chris saying that it is actually Becca that he said is the real deal and the full package so just curious as to what makes you think that Chris feels Whit is.


Again, I want to preface my comments by saying that I feel both Becca and Whit are great gals.

Cameron2 wrote:From a mans point of view, successful men want to be partnered with successful women ...

We all saw the results of the wedding crashing and realized what we saw was very special had just taken place. The looks on their faces, his reaction to her and the statement, it was not just the date that was special, but the special one was Whitney.

When you stop and think about it, ladies like Whitney are few and fare between. She is not all messed up and certainly uses the head on her shoulders. She is the real catch of the 30 women.

A man's wife is often the ambassador of the couple; she is the one who may manage the social calendar and interface with friends and family. It is the impression she makes on other people that becomes their impression of the couple and the man as well. I think what was so special about the wedding date and what Chris saw that so moved him on that date (literally to tears if you watched closely) was how Whitney used her charisma and self-confidence in social situations to become a part of a celebration with people neither Chris nor Whitney knew before. You could see that same charm at work in Des Moines when she met Chris's friends; little wonder they thought she was great. Whitney may not be the prettiest woman of the franchise, or even of this season, but she has smarts and charisma and openness and sincerity and yes - she is the real catch.

chasingpavements wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

Yeah, that's the one thing that I keep thinking about, but I feel like that's been changing recently. I remember Chris (in Des's season), Nikki, and Jef being very confident in the last two weeks.

In Des's season, I don't think that they edited Chris any way at all cause he was the only one to meet Des's parents.  Kind of hard to edit him one way and someone else another when he's the only one that met her family.

Just in general, Chris got a very over-confident edit, saying things like 'I would be shocked if anything got in the way of the relationship we have built", "I am confident that Des will be my wife". In the past, any contestant who said something like that was about to get dumped.

This is true, but they are also now showing Whitney as having doubts. I believe in the clip for LCD she says "it could all be taken away from her like that" Whitney is not having doubts in her feelings towards Chris, just that she knows there is still another girl...So the edit is showing some doubt on her end.

chasingpavements wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

Yeah, that's the one thing that I keep thinking about, but I feel like that's been changing recently. I remember Chris (in Des's season), Nikki, and Jef being very confident in the last two weeks.

In Des's season, I don't think that they edited Chris any way at all cause he was the only one to meet Des's parents.  Kind of hard to edit him one way and someone else another when he's the only one that met her family.

Just in general, Chris got a very over-confident edit, saying things like 'I would be shocked if anything got in the way of the relationship we have built", "I am confident that Des will be my wife". In the past, any contestant who said something like that was about to get dumped.

You mean like Whitney is sounding this season...so sure of herself, almost right from the first night. To me, she has been pushing herself onto Chris, always going in for the kiss, etc, so much so that it seems fake. Now with Des's season, she too instigated a lot of their contact. I don't see Chris doing that this season with Whitney but do see it with Becca so it will be interesting for sure. There just doesn't seem to be much post season to support Whitney as F1 right now.

I just re watched last episode.  I do not see the connection with Becca, but I do see the mature connection with Whitney.  It seems to me that Chris really does have feelings for all of the top three.  He really grieved sending kaitlyn home.  He has real feelings for Becca, but it seems more like a high school or college level relationship.  Even the drama they have between each other is certainly real but seems immature.  With Whitney she matches him intellectually, and I see a deeper confidence in her.  To me that is the more attractive and deeper love.  But they all signed up for this show and I understand that Chris is looking over his options.  That is the nature of the show.  In real time this is happening faster than we are seeing it on the show.  I just do not see Chris being a intellectual and emotional match with Becca.  I do see that with Whitney.  I think he thinks they are all beautiful.  Once he can focus on only one that is when the real falling in love starts.

Aunties_Love wrote:I am curious as to what (besides the spoilers) makes you think Whitney is F1.  I do remember Chris saying that it is actually Becca that he said is the real deal and the full package so just curious as to what makes you think that Chris feels Whit is.

Not Diana, but I will share why I thing Whitney is F1:

1 - Whitney touched Chris in a very special way on their first date - a way I have rarely seen on this show and certainly not with anyone else this season.

2 - She did the same thing again on the group date when the got the date rose. They never showed why she got that rose on the episode but there was a deleted scene which showed why she got the rose and it was another situation where she just came across as very genuine and charismatic.

3 - Other girls this season have seen their stars rise and fade as the relationships grew and then ran into "problems" but Whitney and her relationship with Chris has been consistent and progressive and she has never said or done anything to make Chris doubt her loyalty or sincerity.

4 - Whitney passed the test (with flying colors) she never knew was a test (meeting Chris's closest friends in Des Moines) and it was Whitney that Chris put to that test in the first place.

5 - The information that GA posted yesterday - that Chris's mother as well as Chris himself told a close friend of his mother that he would be spending Thanksgiving in Chicago instead of Iowa - and yet his sisters would be in Iowa. I think the most plausible explanation for this is that he was spending Thanksgiving with Whitney in Chicago.

6 - This last one may require a bit of explanation. It starts with the observation (actually made by my wife) that the FRC (and MTP and LCD) are usually held in an exotic location which is usually near to the FD location or at least in the same country and this time they flew to Bali and only had one date there. I started wondering if this was always planned that way or if it was changed and if changed - why did they change it? I found a WetPaint article that alludes to the fact that it was originally planned to film the MTP / LCD and FRC in Bali but they retracted this in a November 11 article:

WetPaint wrote:UPDATE (11/19/14): We originally reported that both Bachelor 2015’s overnight dates in the Fantasy Suites and the Final Rose ceremony would take place in the Indonesian paradise of Bali, but apparently producers have one more trick up their sleeves: After Chris Soules narrows his Season 19 ladies down to just two, production will head back to Iowa for the Final Rose Ceremony. Yep, ABC is making darn tootin’ sure that whatever woman becomes Mrs. Soules knows ahead of time that her new life will include a whole lotta’ corn fields.

So it was a change - but why? IMO the reason for the change was that on Chris's FD with Whitney when they talked about Arlington, Whitney said she was at a disadvantage because she had never seen Arlington and Chris then put pressure on the producers to change things so that she would have a chance to see Arlington before having to make a decision to accept a proposal.

I think the most logical explanation that ties all of these together is that Whitney is F1 - they all make sense if she is and ends are left dangling if she isn't.