Re: Bachelor 19 - Whitney Bischoff #2

by Aunties_Love Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:14 am

Lucas15 wrote:
Aunties_Love wrote:I am curious as to what (besides the spoilers) makes you think Whitney is F1. I do remember Chris saying that it is actually Becca that he said is the real deal and the full package so just curious as to what makes you think that Chris feels Whit is.

Not Diana, but I will share why I thing Whitney is F1:

1 - Whitney touched Chris in a very special way on their first date - a way I have rarely seen on this show and certainly not with anyone else this season.

2 - She did the same thing again on the group date when the got the date rose. They never showed why she got that rose on the episode but there was a deleted scene which showed why she got the rose and it was another situation where she just came across as very genuine and charismatic.

3 - Other girls this season have seen their stars rise and fade as the relationships grew and then ran into "problems" but Whitney and her relationship with Chris has been consistent and progressive and she has never said or done anything to make Chris doubt her loyalty or sincerity.

4 - Whitney passed the test (with flying colors) she never knew was a test (meeting Chris's closest friends in Des Moines) and it was Whitney that Chris put to that test in the first place.

5 - The information that GA posted yesterday - that Chris's mother as well as Chris himself told a close friend of his mother that he would be spending Thanksgiving in Chicago instead of Iowa - and yet his sisters would be in Iowa. I think the most plausible explanation for this is that he was spending Thanksgiving with Whitney in Chicago.

6 - This last one may require a bit of explanation. It starts with the observation (actually made by my wife) that the FRC (and MTP and LCD) are usually held in an exotic location which is usually near to the FD location or at least in the same country and this time they flew to Bali and only had one date there. I started wondering if this was always planned that way or if it was changed and if changed - why did they change it? I found a WetPaint article that alludes to the fact that it was originally planned to film the MTP / LCD and FRC in Bali but they retracted this in a November 11 article:

WetPaint wrote:UPDATE (11/19/14): We originally reported that both Bachelor 2015’s overnight dates in the Fantasy Suites and the Final Rose ceremony would take place in the Indonesian paradise of Bali, but apparently producers have one more trick up their sleeves: After Chris Soules narrows his Season 19 ladies down to just two, production will head back to Iowa for the Final Rose Ceremony. Yep, ABC is making darn tootin’ sure that whatever woman becomes Mrs. Soules knows ahead of time that her new life will include a whole lotta’ corn fields.

So it was a change - but why? IMO the reason for the change was that on Chris's FD with Whitney when they talked about Arlington, Whitney said she was at a disadvantage because she had never seen Arlington and Chris then put pressure on the producers to change things so that she would have a chance to see Arlington before having to make a decision to accept a proposal.

I think the most logical explanation that ties all of these together is that Whitney is F1 - they all make sense if she is and ends are left dangling if she isn't.

Maybe before epi 6, Whit was the F1, but after that he has gone more in a Becca direction. Now with this series, never before has there been back to back individual episodes and as practice of this show, the last dates of the season, ie when it gets down to the F6 and onward, Chris/lead has more of a say of who goes on what dates. I believe that is when Whit took a back seat to Becca.

Now the change of the FRC/LCD locale was actually sleuthed out here earlier than that article that they'd be in Iowa and not in Bali. From what I remember during the sleuthing, there was actually no change but that was the plan at the time. The producers didn't "CHANGE" the venue for any reason, but scheduled it this way.

I didn't know about hte info that GA posted. Will check into that myself when I get a chance. But IMO, there was NOTHING done to change the locale just for Whit. IT was planned well before the beginning of the season began filming.

by Cameron2 Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:27 am

The producers of the bachelor, are really magicians. They put words in the mouths of the participants and try and hide the leads. I was in sales for over 3 decades and learning to read people was vitally important.

Pay attention to the lead and those he seems to be attracted to. Listen to what he wants, as some clues are quite subtle. He explained exactly what he wanted in his woman several times. Then it is your duty to see who matches up.

The other thing, when people are very interested in each other, their reactions will tell you much.

When those you think may become the F1, become hidden, you know there is something there about the relationship If you watched carefully, the actions of Chris and Whitney were a dead giveaway. Whether it would last, depends on what happens in further episodes. The way that Chris held Whitney, caressing her arms and back were hints. All of these little clues gives one an indication of whether there is a real relationship or not.

Personally, I don't have a dog in this fight. I simply watched and listened to what Chris said he wanted followed the clues he left.

As for Becca, I think that neither one of them are totally into each other. She did not want to jepardize her beliefs and knew he would choose Whitney. That would be the reason for her being upbeat after the finals. You may believe differently, and I respect that right. By the way, all of the girls are taken advantage of on this show. Maybe not mean like, but it happens You have one winner and 24 that lose. Rather harsh.

by Lucas15 Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:53 am

Cameron2 wrote:As for Becca, I think that neither one of them are totally into each other. She did not want to jeopardize her beliefs and knew he would choose Whitney. That would be the reason for her being upbeat after the finals. You may believe differently, and I respect that right. By the way, all of the girls are taken advantage of on this show. Maybe not mean like, but it happens You have one winner and 24 that lose. Rather harsh.

I would add another reason and you've captured part of it - there's too much uncertainty too late in the game to make Becca a good choice.

This is Chris Soules - the same Chris Soules who told Andi that if she didn't see a future with him he wanted to go home - and he left on that note. Chris is not looking for a girlfriend or a "let's date and see where this goes" relationship. He's looking for a wife and a mother for his children and he's admittedly 10 years into his 5 year plan. He's looking for someone who is going to reciprocate his commitment - not someone who is uncertain who she is or what she wants. His reaction to Becca's disclosure that she's a virgin was interesting and IMO not centered on the sex aspects but rather the inexperience in matters of love and the heart.

As a very pragmatic (and not necessarily romantic element) he's looking for a degree of certainty and conviction and commitment and someone who is ready to commit and that is not Becca at this point in her life - Whitney best exemplifies that of the two.

by KB_Mom Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:56 am

Lucas15 wrote:
Cameron2 wrote:As for Becca, I think that neither one of them are totally into each other. She did not want to jeopardize her beliefs and knew he would choose Whitney. That would be the reason for her being upbeat after the finals. You may believe differently, and I respect that right. By the way, all of the girls are taken advantage of on this show. Maybe not mean like, but it happens You have one winner and 24 that lose. Rather harsh.

I would add another reason and you've captured part of it - there's too much uncertainty too late in the game to make Becca a good choice.

This is Chris Soules - the same Chris Soules who told Andi that if she didn't see a future with him he wanted to go home - and he left on that note. Chris is not looking for a girlfriend or a "let's date and see where this goes" relationship. He's looking for a wife and a mother for his children and he's admittedly 10 years into his 5 year plan. He's looking for someone who is going to reciprocate his commitment - not someone who is uncertain who she is or what she wants. His reaction to Becca's disclosure that she's a virgin was interesting and IMO not centered on the sex aspects but rather the inexperience in matters of love and the heart.

As a very pragmatic (and not necessarily romantic element) he's looking for a degree of certainty and conviction and commitment and someone who is ready to commit and that is not Becca at this point in her life - Whitney best exemplifies that of the two.

by KB_Mom Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:58 am

Eviebloom wrote:I just re watched last episode. I do not see the connection with Becca, but I do see the mature connection with Whitney. It seems to me that Chris really does have feelings for all of the top three. He really grieved sending kaitlyn home. He has real feelings for Becca, but it seems more like a high school or college level relationship. Even the drama they have between each other is certainly real but seems immature. With Whitney she matches him intellectually, and I see a deeper confidence in her. To me that is the more attractive and deeper love. But they all signed up for this show and I understand that Chris is looking over his options. That is the nature of the show. In real time this is happening faster than we are seeing it on the show. I just do not see Chris being a intellectual and emotional match with Becca. I do see that with Whitney. I think he thinks they are all beautiful. Once he can focus on only one that is when the real falling in love starts.

by stuckinsc Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:59 am

Lucas15 wrote:
chasingpavements wrote:Yeah, that's the one thing that I keep thinking about, but I feel like that's been changing recently. I remember Chris (in Des's season), Nikki, and Jef being very confident in the last two weeks.

Don't forget Catherine from Sean's season who was also confident at the end. After the show aired she admitted that she knew she was going to be F1.

While that may have been the truth, Cat was edited to be upset at LCD and actually ran after Sean to get another hug. The letter was presented with the possibility that she had decided to leave Sean due to that stress. The edit for Cat at LCD was not over confident at all. That may not have been the reality, but it was the edit.

Lucas15 wrote:
Cameron2 wrote:From a mans point of view, successful men want to be partnered with successful women ...

We all saw the results of the wedding crashing and realized what we saw was very special had just taken place. The looks on their faces, his reaction to her and the statement, it was not just the date that was special, but the special one was Whitney.

When you stop and think about it, ladies like Whitney are few and fare between. She is not all messed up and certainly uses the head on her shoulders. She is the real catch of the 30 women.

A man's wife is often the ambassador of the couple; she is the one who may manage the social calendar and interface with friends and family. It is the impression she makes on other people that becomes their impression of the couple and the man as well. I think what was so special about the wedding date and what Chris saw that so moved him on that date (literally to tears if you watched closely) was how Whitney used her charisma and self-confidence in social situations to become a part of a celebration with people neither Chris nor Whitney knew before. You could see that same charm at work in Des Moines when she met Chris's friends; little wonder they thought she was great. Whitney may not be the prettiest woman of the franchise, or even of this season, but she has smarts and charisma and openness and sincerity and yes - she is the real catch.

Funny, my husband doesn't need me to be the ambassador of anything. I am his equal, so with his circle he is the ambassador, with mine I am.

Circling generalizations are funny to me, since there are always exceptions.

I can also say in my life, I have met those people who I really like and are who I should want to be with and they would be good enough, but there are others who aren't perfect but I can't give up.

Whitney was edited to be the quick spark, who was constant through out. Becca was edited to be the slow building flame. In that she reminds me of Des's Chris. I like others fail to see a lot of growth with Whitney, I am not saying they didn't but the edit never shows us her actually getting to know him, it has been presented that Whitney knew it all and so has been all in from day one. Again, I am not saying this is true, just the edit.

Becca is growing slowly in her story and Chris seems to be chasing her. This is again possibly only the edit.

But as edited Chris is chasing Becca and Whitney is over confident.

Who is F1? Honestly, could be either. All three seem really happy, Chris included, so it is all good.

I do find the men who are awesome enough to watch this show great. I tried to have my hubby watch with me, he gave me about 15 minutes each for the first four episodes before he gave up on Chris because he found him too annoying. He hasn't bothered to try again since episode 5, he just goes to hide. So good for you for getting through this.

by mindless Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:00 am

Eviebloom wrote:I just re watched last episode. I do not see the connection with Becca, but I do see the mature connection with Whitney. It seems to me that Chris really does have feelings for all of the top three. He really grieved sending kaitlyn home. He has real feelings for Becca, but it seems more like a high school or college level relationship. Even the drama they have between each other is certainly real but seems immature. With Whitney she matches him intellectually, and I see a deeper confidence in her. To me that is the more attractive and deeper love. But they all signed up for this show and I understand that Chris is looking over his options. That is the nature of the show. In real time this is happening faster than we are seeing it on the show. I just do not see Chris being a intellectual and emotional match with Becca. I do see that with Whitney. I think he thinks they are all beautiful. Once he can focus on only one that is when the real falling in love starts.

What drama? I don't think not being ready to say "I love you and I'll move to Arlington" after being on a few dates is immature at all. Quite the opposite.

Anyway, when I watch Chris with Whitney, I see a man in awe of a woman, who excels in all the areas he's lacking in. She's social, articulate and able to adapt to any situation in a heartbeat. Who wouldn't admire someone like that, especially if they're a bit shy and awkward themselves? But does such admiration automatically turn into love? I don't think so. You still need that spark, that something you can't quite put your finger on. "Soul connection" or however you wish to put it. I've yet to see him have that with Whitney. Maybe he does and they've just made a good job of editing it out, but on the other hand I've seen the potential of him having that with Becca. I had no preference to her at the start of the season and we hardly got to see her until the second half, so it's not a case of comparing the two. I just felt like something was missing between him and Whitney and then Becca emerged and that missing thing appeared. I've read many say the same, so it's not just me either. Either we're all delusional or he really does have something special with Becca. I'm sure he would be happy picking Whitney if he didn't have that effortless connection with Becca, but now that he has, is he willing to put it aside and go for the one he admires and who's the perfect prototype of a wife and mother? I really don't know, since I'm not inside his head. I guess we'll see. It just wouldn't be the first time someone thought they knew exactly what they want and then met their match, who's nothing like they imagined. Though I do think Becca ticks plenty of his boxes. She may not be a career woman, but she's socially smart, funny and seems to make friends easily while having a calming presence about her. She also wants marriage and kids in the future. I just don't think it's as cut and dried as many people seem to think. I think the show just managed to hide her very well during the first half of the season and it makes me wonder why they did that, if they want us to now think she's a legitimate contender? Why not show more of her during the season?

by Cameron2 Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:18 am

One thing that needs to be brought up, is what a nice gentleman Chris Soules is. He had feelings for all of the ladies and was really struggling with letting any of them go home. It appeared to me that he was ticked off with both the ladies on the 2-1 date and he did what he needed to do. He did the same thing with Becca when she put him down in front of the other women.

I personally have a lot of respect for how he handled a very emotional season. And I thought he did very well with all the interviews and public appearances.

by Pia1 Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:21 am

mindless wrote:
Eviebloom wrote:I just re watched last episode. I do not see the connection with Becca, but I do see the mature connection with Whitney. It seems to me that Chris really does have feelings for all of the top three. He really grieved sending kaitlyn home. He has real feelings for Becca, but it seems more like a high school or college level relationship. Even the drama they have between each other is certainly real but seems immature. With Whitney she matches him intellectually, and I see a deeper confidence in her. To me that is the more attractive and deeper love. But they all signed up for this show and I understand that Chris is looking over his options. That is the nature of the show. In real time this is happening faster than we are seeing it on the show. I just do not see Chris being a intellectual and emotional match with Becca. I do see that with Whitney. I think he thinks they are all beautiful. Once he can focus on only one that is when the real falling in love starts.

What drama? I don't think not being ready to say "I love you and I'll move to Arlington" after being on a few dates is immature at all. Quite the opposite.

Anyway, when I watch Chris with Whitney, I see a man in awe of a woman, who excels in all the areas he's lacking in. She's social, articulate and able to adapt to any situation in a heartbeat. Who wouldn't admire someone like that, especially if they're a bit shy and awkward themselves? But does such admiration automatically turn into love? I don't think so. You still need that spark, that something you can't quite put your finger on. "Soul connection" or however you wish to put it. I've yet to see him have that with Whitney. Maybe he does and they've just made a good job of editing it out, but on the other hand I've seen the potential of him having that with Becca. I had no preference to her at the start of the season and we hardly got to see her until the second half, so it's not a case of comparing the two. I just felt like something was missing between him and Whitney and then Becca emerged and that missing thing appeared. I've read many say the same, so it's not just me either. Either we're all delusional or he really does have something special with Becca. I'm sure he would be happy picking Whitney if he didn't have that effortless connection with Becca, but now that he has, is he willing to put it aside and go for the one he admires and who's the perfect prototype of a wife and mother? I really don't know, since I'm not inside his head. I guess we'll see. It just wouldn't be the first time someone thought they knew exactly what they want and then met their match, who's nothing like they imagined. Though I do think Becca ticks plenty of his boxes. She may not be a career woman, but she's socially smart, funny and seems to make friends easily while having a calming presence about her. She also wants marriage and kids in the future. I just don't think it's as cut and dried as many people seem to think. I think the show just managed to hide her very well during the first half of the season and it makes me wonder why they did that, if they want us to now think she's a legitimate contender? Why not show more of her during the season?

How I feel as well. :Nod:

by stuckinsc Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:22 am

Cameron2 wrote:One thing that needs to be brought up, is what a nice gentleman Chris Soules is. He had feelings for all of the ladies and was really struggling with letting any of them go home. It appeared to me that he was ticked off with both the ladies on the 2-1 date and he did what he needed to do. He did the same thing with Becca when she put him down in front of the other women.

I personally have a lot of respect for how he handled a very emotional season. And I thought he did very well with all the interviews and public appearances.

When did Becca put down Chris in front of the other women? If you prefer to answer in the Becca thread that is okay, since this is the Whitney thread.

by Guest Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:37 am

stuckinsc wrote:
Cameron2 wrote:One thing that needs to be brought up, is what a nice gentleman Chris Soules is. He had feelings for all of the ladies and was really struggling with letting any of them go home. It appeared to me that he was ticked off with both the ladies on the 2-1 date and he did what he needed to do. He did the same thing with Becca when she put him down in front of the other women.

I personally have a lot of respect for how he handled a very emotional season. And I thought he did very well with all the interviews and public appearances.

When did Becca put down Chris in front of the other women? If you prefer to answer in the Becca thread that is okay, since this is the Whitney thread.

i can not speak for Cameron but I think he means Britt.

by eirekay Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:46 am

Mods, would it be possible to create a Fan thread for Whitney so that Team Chrisney can have a safe place to go where we don't have to defend our girl? I don't see Chrisney leaking on to the Becca thread but there is a lot of Bechris popping up here.

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