Re: Episode 11 - 8/1 Finale - Discussion - Thread #1

[ironcat]

: Did anyone else notice how at the F2 "RC" toast it appeared Ashley was speaking only to Ben for a good deal of it? Could have been editing, I realize.... and/or her overcompensating and not wanting to make her preference of JP too obvious. But I did wonder if that was part of the reason Ben felt he had an edge....???

I'm not convinced Ben was "competing". I just tend to think he too got sucked up into some fairytale dreaming.... till the bubble burst. But I appear to be in the minority so I'll hush up now. :missspeak:

It's so funny because if you go back and watch the F2 rose ceremony toast with Ali, Chris, and Roberto, I thought she focused and turned toward Chris the most.....At that point, I really thought for a second that maybe F1 was Chris to be honest.

I do agree though....She definately seemed to only be speaking to Ben during the toast. I did notice that. :Nod:

I suspect she was afraid to look too much at JP for fear that she'd start blushing. The night before methinks they did the deed. :giggle:

[Nativenewyorker]

: Did anyone else notice how at the F2 "RC" toast it appeared Ashley was speaking only to Ben for a good deal of it? Could have been editing, I realize.... and/or her overcompensating and not wanting to make her preference of JP too obvious. But I did wonder if that was part of the reason Ben felt he had an edge....???

I'm not convinced Ben was "competing". I just tend to think he too got sucked up into some fairytale dreaming.... till the bubble burst. But I appear to be in the minority so I'll hush up now. :missspeak:

I sincerely hope you don't feel that you have to hush up. I want to hear the perspective of Ben fans. I am also trying to be respectful of your feelings, while still being able to give my thoughts. Some of us may feel differently after we finally see what happens at the FRC with our own eyes.

My sense of it was that Ben seemed confident for some time. I remember how he mentioned the HTD to Ashley and spoke as if it was a done deal that he would be given a rose that week. She told him that he sounded really confident. I think JP may have picked up on the confident vibe from Ben and that might have been one reason for his fear and insecurity. If you feel that you're the one and have it locked up, then that would explain why Ben seemed so unflappable and calm. We are used to seeing some anxiety as the season moves toward its inevitable ending. I wondered why Ben was such a sea of calm. Then there was JP, who had the chemistry and passion with Ashley that we all saw for ourselves. He was a bundle of nerves in Taipai. I think seeing Ben come back after being out overnight and observing his quiet calm and confidence, could only have made it worse for JP.

I know that it was said yesterday that some were blaming Ben for what happened at the FRC. I am certainly not blaming him in any way. All I am saying is that it might have helped if he considered the possibility that he wouldn't get picked. A little healthy doubt isn't a bad thing, especially with this show. I don't know if it's entirely possible prepare yourself for the FRC. However, if you have some nerves and apprehension, then maybe that helps to absorb the shock. I still remember Trista's season, where Charlie was brimming with confidence and Ryan was a nervous wreck. I find it hard to believe that Ben didn't at least consider at some point that Ashley might pick JP.

[Nibbles22]

: Did anyone else notice how at the F2 "RC" toast it appeared Ashley was speaking only to Ben for a good deal of it? Could have been editing, I realize.... and/or her overcompensating and not wanting to make her preference of JP too obvious. But I did wonder if that was part of the reason Ben felt he had an edge....???

I'm not convinced Ben was "competing". I just tend to think he too got sucked up into some fairytale dreaming.... till the bubble burst. But I appear to be in the minority so I'll hush up now.

It's so funny because if you go back and watch the F2 rose ceremony toast with Ali, Chris, and Roberto, I thought she focused and turned toward Chris the most.....At that point, I really thought for a second that maybe F1 was Chris to be honest.

I do agree though....She definately seemed to only be speaking to Ben during the toast. I did notice that.

I suspect she was afraid to look too much at JP for fear that she'd start blushing. The night before methinks they did the deed.

I thought that immediatley, IC! To me, it was almost to avoid the obvious connection the two of them

now shared, so she directed the conversation to Ben. I have NO doubt that she told JP during their

private time that there was NO intimacy shared with Ben!

[Guest]

NNY, You reminded me of Ryan Sutter, so insecure, scared and worried, he disappeared right before he was scheduled to go the FRC, after Charlie was sent home (of course Ryan didn't know that.). They stopped production and searched all over for Ryan. They found him in some bushes throwing up.

Trista says to this day, her real regret was not being able to tell Ryan he was her F1 on their LCD. She said it on TV not that long ago when she was on Rachel Ray. She mentioned it again, when Brad said ILY to Emily, that she (Trista) was not allowed to tell Ryan. And Charlie, he was Mr. Overconfidence, thought it was him, the complete opposite of Ryan.

And Trista has said over and over on BBD and twitter that JP is exactly like Ryan and she's been hoping it's JP from the get go, she saw the connection early on.

ETA..and Ali avoided Roberto and concentrated on Chris. She even fumbled with Chris rose and said "I have to get it pefect". She couldnd't look at Roberto, cause that was after their FD. lol

[bluwavz]

: Did anyone else notice how at the F2 "RC" toast it appeared Ashley was speaking only to Ben for a good deal of it? Could have been editing, I realize.... and/or her overcompensating and not wanting to make her preference of JP too obvious. But I did wonder if that was part of the reason Ben felt he had an edge....???

I'm not convinced Ben was "competing". I just tend to think he too got sucked up into some fairytale dreaming.... till the bubble burst. But I appear to be in the minority so I'll hush up now. :missspeak:

I sincerely hope you don't feel that you have to hush up. I want to hear the perspective of Ben fans. I am also trying to be respectful of your feelings, while still being able to give my thoughts. Some of us may feel differently after we finally see what happens at the FRC with our own eyes.

My sense of it was that Ben seemed confident for some time. I remember how he mentioned the HTD to Ashley and spoke as if it was a done deal that he would be given a rose that week. She told him that he sounded really confident. I think JP may have picked up on the confident vibe from Ben and that might have been one reason for his fear and insecurity. If you feel that you're the one and have it locked up, then that would explain why Ben seemed so unflappable and calm. We are used to seeing some anxiety as the season moves toward its inevitable ending. I wondered why Ben was such a sea of calm. Then there was JP, who had the chemistry and passion with Ashley that we all saw for ourselves. He was a bundle of nerves in Taipai. I think seeing Ben come back after being out overnight and observing his quiet calm and confidence, could only have made it worse for JP.

I know that it was said yesterday that some were blaming Ben for what happened at the FRC. I am certainly not blaming him in any way. All I am saying is that it might have helped if he considered the possibility that he wouldn't get picked. A little healthy doubt isn't a bad thing, especially with this show. I don't know if it's entirely possible prepare yourself for the FRC. However, if you have some nerves and apprehension, then maybe that helps to absorb the shock. I still remember Trista's season, where Charlie was brimming with confidence and Ryan was a nervous wreck. I find it hard to believe that Ben didn't at least consider at some point that Ashley might pick JP.

Something else that may have given Ben so much confidence was the fact that he spent more time with Ashley than JP did overall. Both of JP's 1-on-1 dates were in the evening and he didn't have any type of date with her in the 2nd episode, while Ben had a date every episode with both of his 1-on-1 dates starting during the day and one of them being overnight. The overnight date probably gave him the most confidence and he probably assumed Ashley had chosen him for that because she liked him the most, though we know the producers probably only chose him for that because he was JP's biggest competition and they probably had some idea of how he would react to it. I'm sure the producers also gave Ben a lot of reassurance and JP a lot of doubt, which probably explains why we have this mess going into the FRC.

[pavalygurl]

I know this will be a very minority opinion, but here goes anyway. I think that it is possible Ben and Ash were intimate in the fantasy suite. They talked about next steps at dinner and seemed very into each other at the pool. He carried up 4 or 5 steps and into the fantasy suite. I was impressed LOL. I don't judge her at all if she did. She wanted no regrets and despite what she feels for JP, she also had IMHO strong feelings for Ben. I think that may be why Ben was shocked at the FRC. Again JMO.

[northernviewer]

It sounds like Ben just couldn't conceive that she would turn him down. Not very realistic for this kind of show. Unless Ashley had sex with him on FD (which I would find very very very hard to believe she would even consider it) then Ben should have been prepared for a rejection, plain and simple. Ashley obviously froze and couldn't get the words out and chased after him to say all the lines that she has prepared to say to him but couldn't in the moment. Feel bad for both of them really but won't put the blame on Ashley for this.... it's the concept of what has to happen at the FRC and it is reality television folks... and sometimes $hit happens.

[Guest]

I know this will be a very minority opinion, but here goes anyway. I think that it is possible Ben and Ash were intimate in the fantasy suite. They talked about next steps at dinner and seemed very into each other at the pool. He carried up 4 or 5 steps and into the fantasy suite. I was impressed LOL. I don't judge her at all if she did. She wanted no regrets and despite what she feels for JP, she also had IMHO strong feelings for Ben. I think that may be why Ben was shocked at the FRC. Again JMO.

Interesting thought I go there with you

[Guest]

HI pavalygurl. Agree to disagree. I don't think they were, I'd bet on it never happening, she was too in love with JP. Playing the devil's advocate, if that's the case, and Ashley was only using the sexual compatibility as her final decision, then it was best with JP. However, I have more respect for Ashley and think she is really a good girl, who doesn't give herself freely or easily when it comes to the deed. She pointed out "two beds, this is where we'll be sleeping', and I believe that's what she meant, and that's exactly what happened, not a producer line.

[kdubs_ca]

: Did anyone else notice how at the F2 "RC" toast it appeared Ashley was speaking only to Ben for a good deal of it? Could have been editing, I realize.... and/or her overcompensating and not wanting to make her preference of JP too obvious. But I did wonder if that was part of the reason Ben felt he had an edge....???

I'm not convinced Ben was "competing". I just tend to think he too got sucked up into some fairytale dreaming.... till the bubble burst. But I appear to be in the minority so I'll hush up now. :missspeak:

I sincerely hope you don't feel that you have to hush up. I want to hear the perspective of Ben fans. I am also trying to be respectful of your feelings, while still being able to give my thoughts. Some of us may feel differently after we finally see what happens at the FRC with our own eyes.

My sense of it was that Ben seemed confident for some time. I remember how he mentioned the HTD to Ashley and spoke as if it was a done deal that he would be given a rose that week. She told him that he sounded really confident. I think JP may have picked up on the confident vibe from Ben and that might have been one reason for his fear and insecurity. If you feel that you're the one and have it locked up, then that would explain why Ben seemed so unflappable and calm. We are used to seeing some anxiety as the season moves toward its inevitable ending. I wondered why Ben was such a sea of calm. Then there was JP, who had the chemistry and passion with Ashley that we all saw for ourselves. He was a bundle of nerves in Taipai. I think seeing Ben come back after being out overnight and observing his quiet calm and confidence, could only have made it worse for JP.

I know that it was said yesterday that some were blaming Ben for what happened at the FRC. I am certainly not blaming him in any way. All I am saying is that it might have helped if he considered the possibility that he wouldn't get picked. A little healthy doubt isn't a bad thing, especially with this show. I don't know if it's entirely possible prepare yourself for the FRC. However, if you have some nerves and apprehension, then maybe that helps to absorb the shock. I still remember Trista's season, where Charlie was brimming with confidence and Ryan was a nervous wreck. I find it hard to believe that Ben didn't at least consider at some point that Ashley might pick JP.

Love this post NNY! I wish that we'd really get some insight into the nitty gritty of this show. As a viewer, I had to dodge some serious anvils on Monday night with Ben talking about "not telling her that he was in love, but just knowing from the looks exchanged" versus JP's lack of confidence. I had the advantage of watching on the West Coast after the definitive spoilers came out, but I kept waiting for the bus to run over Ben during those conversations... and then hit reverse and run over him again. So, what I want to know is how much TPTB are telling the contestants behind the scenes.

Last season, I couldn't believe that Chantal couldn't see the HUGE pullback from Brad during the LCD. But there she was at the FRC shocked not to be picked. I imagine that Ash's reaction to the "I love you" declaration will be about as enthusiastic as my reaction to getting a window seat on the commuter train in the morning, but then Ben will pick out rings with full confidence a few days later and drop to his knee with complete abandon. What causes that? Cockiness? Over confidence? Lack of awareness? Or maybe some sinister little bees buzzing in your ear that she's totally into you? I wonder if we'll ever know?

[Alanna]

I don't think women like Ashley, who place so much significance on attaching emotional feelngs to a physical relationship, operate that way- test driving the F2 for fun or random experimenting. I also can't imagine she would do that to JP. Would he get over something like that? Not in a million years IMO.

BTW, can't believe I'm thinking about the sex habits of these people now. Truly a new low. LMAO.

[Guest]

Actually Chantal was not shocked at not being picked. She said she knew from the bright sun, she was going too early to the FRC and knew it was not her. She was deeply hurt and humiliated, but not shocked.

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