Re: Episode 11 - 8/1 Finale - Discussion - Thread #1

[CarrieA]

bluwavz, you are one of the sweetest poster I have ever met I have high hopes for a love story next year for you! Maybe even with Ben included in it!!

[pavalygurl]

I think I get what Chrystie meant about Ashley being too much. We obviously got the wrong edit of Ben. He's a lot more outgoing and crazy than we've seen on the show. His friends say he likes being center stage. I hope he's not a "Jake."

JP was a little intense but he's basically a quiet kinda guy and Ashley is a ball of energy. While I think he was probably really nervous/scared about meeting her family, he probably came off as too serious and stiff. I'd be a little more concerned about Brad's bar owning lifestyle, his pushing 40 and still being single and on the Bach for he 2nd time than I would JP, who went to college and grad school, and was still single. Do they think he's out womanizing or what? She doesn't make sense but at least she watches the season and sees the obvious. She may think JP just seems ready to settle down and may not be 'exciting' enough for Ashley. I wondered about that too. BUT, I think Ben's boring kisses would be more frustrating than JP being more of a home body - if that's even the case. I think they will do just fine. He seems to have a lot of friends. Ashley has AshleyS in town and there are more alum there too if noone else. Graham, Ames, Jackie ... Things won't be so boring.

Okay, I gotta step in and defend Ben...Jake, really? Hey, your guy "won". Can we be a little kind to the other guy?

[bluwavz]

bluwavz, you are one of the sweetest poster I have ever met I have high hopes for a love story next year for you! Maybe even with Ben included in it!!

Thank you, Carrie! I hope it happens next year for me, too. Especially if it's with Ben (please make it happen, Fleiss). I was an Aliberto and Bremily fan the past two seasons, so I had a feeling it wouldn't happen for me this year. :laughingoutlou

[pavalygurl]

I think I get what Chrystie meant about Ashley being too much. We obviously got the wrong edit of Ben. He's a lot more outgoing and crazy than we've seen on the show. His friends say he likes being center stage. I hope he's not a "Jake."

JP was a little intense but he's basically a quiet kinda guy and Ashley is a ball of energy.

I couldn't agree more about the Ben F edit. Ashley confirmed it in her HTD blog where she said she'd expected Ben F's family to be loud and goofy like him. I don't think he's a Jake but it's obvious he got the CL treatment where we only saw the thinker/griever edit when he's also got a very extroverted side to him.

I see some New York mouthy in JP in that he's very straightforward. So I don't know if I agree he's a quiet kind of guy. I also see a guy who at least on TV had to do a lot of internal rationalizing because of the show's circumstances. I think he was quieter because there was stuff he didn't want on camera.

I thought the clip with Chrystie was interesting. I do agree Chrystie has a sensitivity chip missing though the situation was probably played up for the cameras but at the same time, she put some stuff out there that apparently Ashley had considered herself in some way. And by the way those things are things Ashley SHOULD be considering as she tries to figure out if this is something they want to and can make work long term. I always say this show makes a mockery of the concept of an engagement but if the leads and their F1s really do think through the kinds of issues Ashley apparently considered, then I feel better about them making the commitment of getting engaged.

At the end of the day IMO it was a good and smart choice for Ashley to choose the guy who'll help her to grow up especially since he's the guy she was also more emotionally and physically connected to. I agree with sunnymicki that Ashley's in a transitional time in her life anyway and it's a time where it's natural for her to be thinking about settling down in her lifestyle too. New York's a place where she'll be able to feed her other passions without too much trouble too.

First of all, I love NY. I go there at least once every year for vacay. However, coming from PA, where I grew up with the nicest people possible, it was a shocker to me to now work with mostly New Yorkers who are not shy with their comments. It took me awhile to realize they are not being rude, but just "real". JP's demeanor came across to me (JMHO) as cocky. I now feel he does love Ashley and she loves him so kumbya. I wonder however, if the fam's first impression was like mine.

[ironcat]

I definitely am rooting for Ben to be the next Bachelor, especially compared to what apparently are the two other choices. He has been so idealized here due to his overly pristine edit, and I want to see more of the real Ben. I suspect I will find him far more interesting, and that he has more "game" than what was shown, especially with 25 women chasing after him instead of just one who was falling in love with somebody else at the time. Even that "risque" video made him more appealing to me because I saw a guy with flesh and blood and vitality, as opposed to somebody whose senses/emotions always seemed a little dulled. JMO.

[Guest]

Ben might not see the Jash connection because he's in a little defense-mechanism-denial & he's still somewhat detatched.

When someone is finally able to break down all of Ben's walls, that person will be very lucky because I think there is definitely something amazing in there.

What a lovely thing to say/hear.... Thank you for sharing that!

[Pattycake92]

JP is a very confident guy. I can see where it would come off as cocky to some people but I've been around enough athletes to tell you what cocky is, and it ain't JP. I hope they have a big NYC wedding. I think Ali and Roberto will do the beach so I'd like to see something different but Jash says beaches are their thing...... Bet they have more fun in Fiji this time around :tackle:

[ironcat]

I think I get what Chrystie meant about Ashley being too much. We obviously got the wrong edit of Ben. He's a lot more outgoing and crazy than we've seen on the show. His friends say he likes being center stage. I hope he's not a "Jake."

JP was a little intense but he's basically a quiet kinda guy and Ashley is a ball of energy.

I couldn't agree more about the Ben F edit. Ashley confirmed it in her HTD blog where she said she'd expected Ben F's family to be loud and goofy like him. I don't think he's a Jake but it's obvious he got the CL treatment where we only saw the thinker/griever edit when he's also got a very extroverted side to him.

I see some New York mouthy in JP in that he's very straightforward. So I don't know if I agree he's a quiet kind of guy. I also see a guy who at least on TV had to do a lot of internal rationalizing because of the show's circumstances. I think he was quieter because there was stuff he didn't want on camera.

I thought the clip with Chrystie was interesting. I do agree Chrystie has a sensitivity chip missing though the situation was probably played up for the cameras but at the same time, she put some stuff out there that apparently Ashley had considered herself in some way. And by the way those things are things Ashley SHOULD be considering as she tries to figure out if this is something they want to and can make work long term. I always say this show makes a mockery of the concept of an engagement but if the leads and their F1s really do think through the kinds of issues Ashley apparently considered, then I feel better about them making the commitment of getting engaged.

At the end of the day IMO it was a good and smart choice for Ashley to choose the guy who'll help her to grow up especially since he's the guy she was also more emotionally and physically connected to. I agree with sunnymicki that Ashley's in a transitional time in her life anyway and it's a time where it's natural for her to be thinking about settling down in her lifestyle too. New York's a place where she'll be able to feed her other passions without too much trouble too.

First of all, I love NY. I go there at least once every year for vacay. However, coming from PA, where I grew up with the nicest people possible, it was a shocker to me to now work with mostly New Yorkers who are not shy with their comments. It took me awhile to realize they are not being rude, but just "real". JP's demeanor came across to me (JMHO) as cocky. I now feel he does love Ashley and she loves him so kumbya. I wonder however, if the fam's first impression was like mine.

I got the impression the reverse is true. Chrystie called him "demure", which ain't a typical NY trait. I think he purposely dialed it down in an effort to be gracious and respectful to them on first meeting, and she at least interpreted it as him being too dull and boring for bubbly Ash. I also expect when she saw a bit of the cocky, confident JP on the show, that was when she realized that her first impression of him was wrong and she started warming up to him.

[pavalygurl]

Ben might not see the Jash connection because he's in a little defense-mechanism-denial & he's still somewhat detatched.

When someone is finally able to break down all of Ben's walls, that person will be very lucky because I think there is definitely something amazing in there.

ICAM

[Alanna]

JP is a very confident guy. I can see where it would come off as cocky to some people but I've been around enough athletes to tell you what cocky is, and it ain't JP. I hope they have a big NYC wedding. I think Ali and Roberto will do the beach so I'd like to see something different but Jash says beaches are their thing...... Bet they have more fun in Fiji this time around :tackle:

In the Philly interview, Ash listed her first turnoff as arrogance.

[sjcaligurl]

I don't have a guy. I wanted the guy Ashley wanted and that happened to be JP. My goal in watching the show is to accurately predict who the lead picks by the way I see her interacting with them - not by sleuthing or trying to examine the edit. I focus strictly on the people involved and have been right every Bachelorette season (don't think I really cared with Jen's though and skipped some episodes I think). I don't pick a horse and root for it to win. I like to read the energy between the people and it's never failed me.

I like Ben but for all the talk of people being there for the 'right reasons,' Ben had far more to gain than any of the other guys in the top 6. His winery has gotten major publicity (heck even the mask's wine has too) and even people who are JP fans all like him. We already see that the edit he got, is not an accurate reflection of who he really seems to be. I'm glad that he's got a wild side because he looks like he is on lithium in a lot of his footage. I'm not sure Ashley would have him in the top 2 if he was as boring as his edit makes him look. Quiet Ben would have been my type at that age so if I was choosing the winner that way, I would have been cheering for Ben.

Aside from William's date with Ashley, I liked both of Ben's dates the best (still kinda miffed that JP got two low budget dates even though he didn't seem to care and most things would have been a waste because those two would have been all over each other instead of doing any planned activity). Ryan had it right that all of the activities didn't give them time to bond so there is something to be said for the boring dates because JP and Ashley seemed to cover years of issues in the few hours they had together).

I'm just saying that Ben's sister submitted his name. He probably didn't buy into the process at all so had to look at it from a way that would benefit him. If he wanted to do American Idol, this should have been a piece of cake. I'm glad he ended up getting something more than pub for his winery out of it but if he still has other aspirations, I hope he doesn't let them take over his life the way Jake's have taken over his. Jake had ill intentions from the get go. I don't think Ben did beyond seeing this as an opportunity.

If he considers being The Bachelor, he's going to have to be careful of what theme they want to use. Ashley let them use the 'insecurity' theme with her and it was very destructive. I don't think she as all that insecure with Brad. I think she thought that he was really into Emily and that she wasn't really that all into him. CH almost forced her to say she had been in love with Brad but I don't think she was at all.

Oh, and her exit from Brad was a wee bit like Ben's from her. She told him she wasn't going to "beg him" to get him to keep her and she didn't want to hug either. I'm sure she wasn't so bothered by the way he left as much as she was that she really hurt a good guy. Ben has more of the DeAnna's "that's why I don't wear my heart on my sleeve" reaction while he feels like he opened up and got burned. I get it and that might have been my reaction too.

[Guest]

My opinion of Ben, (as a widowed mother of 2 20something sons) is that Ben still needs to grow up. That whole convo with his mother on their HTD's was a definite WTH moment for me. They have a camera crew at their house filming the Bachelorette, where he's brought a girl home that he could possibly be engaged to in a few weeks... and all they talk about us how Ben acted after his dad died and how he wasn't there for for his mother?? Now if he was 23 or 24 and lost his dad when his was around 20 and at college, I could understand it all better. but at the age he's at, my opinion is that Ben only thinks about Ben. Then I hear how Ben acts at the FRC (sounded totally overconfident considering how we've been shown what the dynamics were between Ash and him - which was goofy friends hanging out and kissing a little). Sorry folks, but I'm getting a spoiled boy that needs to stop thinking so highly of himself.

OMG, I saw that scene with his mom totally differently - imho he was so the opposite of being all about himself.... he didn't have to reveal his past errors to a national audience - but did it, to my eyes, because he felt his mother deserved to hear it.
Nor did I see him as over-confident/cocky - he seemed to me to have a kind of "if it's meant to be, it will be", and misinterpreted the "comfort" Ashley clearly was feeling with him. I think the words "naive" or "inexperienced" seem more appropriate w/r/t Ben, at least as I view his behavior on the show. He never forced anything with Ashley, nor was he ever anything but respectful of her. jm 2-cents'

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