Re: Episode 11 - 8/1 Finale - Discussion - Thread #1

by pavalygurl Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:47 pm

ironcat wrote:I definitely am rooting for Ben to be the next Bachelor, especially compared to what apparently are the two other choices. He has been so idealized here due to his overly pristine edit, and I want to see more of the real Ben. I suspect I will find him far more interesting, and that he has more "game" than what was shown, especially with 25 women chasing after him instead of just one who was falling in love with somebody else at the time. Even that "risque" video made him more appealing to me because I saw a guy with flesh and blood and vitality, as opposed to somebody whose senses/emotions always seemed a little dulled. JMO.

That's the Ben I see as well.

by ironcat Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:59 pm

alsoaktchr wrote:
northernviewer wrote:My opinion of Ben, (as a widowed mother of 2 20something sons) is that Ben still needs to grow up. That whole convo with his mother on their HTD's was a definite WTH moment for me. They have a camera crew at their house filming the Bachelorette, where he's brought a girl home that he could possibly be engaged to in a few weeks... and all they talk about us how Ben acted after his dad died and how he wasn't there for for his mother?? Now if he was 23 or 24 and lost his dad when his was around 20 and at college, I could understand it all better. but at the age he's at, my opinion is that Ben only thinks about Ben. Then I hear how Ben acts at the FRC (sounded totally overconfident considering how we've been shown what the dynamics were between Ash and him - which was goofy friends hanging out and kissing a little). Sorry folks, but I'm getting a spoiled boy that needs to stop thinking so highly of himself.

OMG, I saw that scene with his mom totally differently - imho he was so the opposite of being all about himself.... he didn't have to reveal his past errors to a national audience - but did it, to my eyes, because he felt his mother deserved to hear it.
Nor did I see him as over-confident/cocky - he seemed to me to have a kind of "if it's meant to be, it will be", and misinterpreted the "comfort" Ashley clearly was feeling with him. I think the words "naive" or "inexperienced" seem more appropriate w/r/t Ben, at least as I view his behavior on the show. He never forced anything with Ashley, nor was he ever anything but respectful of her. jm 2-cents'

I didn't have a problem with Ben opening up to his mom on his HTD and thought it was a natural progression from finally tearing down his emotional walls through the show experience, to reaching a moment of clarity that he wanted to share with his mother about his father's death.

As to whether he is cocky or overconfident, I'm reserving judgment until we see his behavior on Monday's show. The dynamic the producers are setting up is obviously the confident one (Ben) vs the scared one (JP), with the scared one winning of course, because karma's a biotch. I also am interested to see how he comes across on ATFR and if he's still in denial about the whole thing.

by Guest Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:03 pm

Oh, and her exit from Brad was a wee bit like Ben's from her. She told him she wasn't going to "beg him" to get him to keep her and she didn't want to hug either. I'm sure she wasn't so bothered by the way he left as much as she was that she really hurt a good guy. Ben has more of the DeAnna's "that's why I don't wear my heart on my sleeve" reaction while he feels like he opened up and got burned. I get it and that might have been my reaction too.
sjcaligurl

I remember not being at all impressed with how Ashley handled "the process" during Brad's season, in particular with her FD and goodbye. Her reactions were human, though.... and I tried to look past the prev. season when hers began. You bring up an interesting parallel here, sjc.... I hope things are not going to be quite as "ugly" Monday as some of us fear....

by CHO Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:13 pm

I think it makes for far better tv to keep up the aura of Ben being devastated and in denial - didn't see it coming etc. I remember when Chris L was on the ATFR and he asked Ali something about what did she learn about him or from him. And she couldn't come up with anything to say. Then afterwards we hear that Chris knew there was something very strong between Roberto and Ali. For Ashley - how many screencaps did we see of Ashley hanging around or beaming at JP - remember the riding on his shoulders in the pool, hugging his leg at the orphanage. Imo I think Ben was aware of JP and Ashley's relationship. Most of the guys probably knew about it. Also she and Ben had the fd together - she had kissed him at least the times we saw on tv - I don't think Ben is that naive to miss the passion in her kisses. Even he, imo, was uneasy about putting suntan lotion on her on the boat - like he was treading on JP's territory. I'm sure it was somewhat embarrassing to go through the FRC but he told her he felt lucky to have been kept so long - he told her he was so happy to have opened up - and I am sure he loved the travel. I am sure he is fine.

by 2observe Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:27 pm

MaggieMae wrote:The editing on this show leaves A LOT to be desired and things that don't fit into the storyline that MF and his minions have for the lead and each contestant aren't shown.

Chris L was very irritated with the way the show portrayed his mother's death and his reaction to it. The show made it seem like this was all he talked about. And poor Emily had the personality edited right out of her to support the "delicate Southern flower" storyline.

So I'm not surprised to find out that Ben has a very goofy, silly and fun side. Ashley made reference to it several times in her blogs but we didn't get to see it much because that didn't support his storyline.

You've got THAT right!!!! The thing is that when the editing is that far off, it usually means that there is no real lovestory. I, for one, am totally disappointed in the editing, of the Show.

by LibbyBell Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:27 pm

CHO wrote:I think it makes for far better tv to keep up the aura of Ben being devastated and in denial - didn't see it coming etc. I remember when Chris L was on the ATFR and he asked Ali something about what did she learn about him or from him. And she couldn't come up with anything to say. Then afterwards we hear that Chris knew there was something very strong between Roberto and Ali. For Ashley - how many screencaps did we see of Ashley hanging around or beaming at JP - remember the riding on his shoulders in the pool, hugging his leg at the orphanage. Imo I think Ben was aware of JP and Ashley's relationship. Most of the guys probably knew about it. Also she and Ben had the fd together - she had kissed him at least the times we saw on tv - I don't think Ben is that naive to miss the passion in her kisses. Even he, imo, was uneasy about putting suntan lotion on her on the boat - like he was treading on JP's territory. I'm sure it was somewhat embarrassing to go through the FRC but he told her he felt lucky to have been kept so long - he told her he was so happy to have opened up - and I am sure he loved the travel. I am sure he is fine.

CHO, ICAM with this-- it was as if he were making sure that she was ok for him to touch her. If they were in love and had such a connection, he wouldn't have to ask because he would have been touching all along! Also agree about the kisses. Surely he has had passionate kisses before and could tell that Ashley wasn't going there. Also, IMO, their FD was most likely very different than her FD with JP. I imagine a lot of talking and fun going on but not much more than more polite kissing. Based off of the toe scene, over drinking might have been a way to keep some of the physical at bay-- again, jmo.

by RealityEscape Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:46 pm

Ben is adorable and when he said JP is the "safe" choice didn't he mean it'd be less change for Ashley in geography and flexibility? Ben knows he's tied to the winery. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt instead of using the lack of maturity approach. However, I'm way older than him and part of me will never "mature" but would like to give away some of the parts of me that have! It does appear that JP and Ashley are a great couple whichs is fun.

by ironcat Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:51 pm

2observe wrote:
MaggieMae wrote:The editing on this show leaves A LOT to be desired and things that don't fit into the storyline that MF and his minions have for the lead and each contestant aren't shown.

Chris L was very irritated with the way the show portrayed his mother's death and his reaction to it. The show made it seem like this was all he talked about. And poor Emily had the personality edited right out of her to support the "delicate Southern flower" storyline.

So I'm not surprised to find out that Ben has a very goofy, silly and fun side. Ashley made reference to it several times in her blogs but we didn't get to see it much because that didn't support his storyline.
You've got THAT right!!!! The thing is that when the editing is that far off, it usually means that there is no real lovestory. I, for one, am totally disappointed in the editing, of the Show.

If there's no real love story this season, then hold on to your hats folks, because we've just seen the debut of the new Meryl Streep and Robert DeNiro!! :giggle:

by Bhaka Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:54 pm

LibbyBell wrote:CHO, ICAM with this-- it was as if he were making sure that she was ok for him to touch her. If they were in love and had such a connection, he wouldn't have to ask because he would have been touching all along! Also agree about the kisses. Surely he has had passionate kisses before and could tell that Ashley wasn't going there. Also, IMO, their FD was most likely very different than her FD with JP. I imagine a lot of talking and fun going on but not much more than more polite kissing. Based off of the toe scene, over drinking might have been a way to keep some of the physical at bay-- again, jmo.

Re: Bolded - I thought the exact same thing - even a way to avoid having to share all that she was really thinking.

by chaslom4 Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:54 pm

ironcat wrote:
2observe wrote:
MaggieMae wrote:The editing on this show leaves A LOT to be desired and things that don't fit into the storyline that MF and his minions have for the lead and each contestant aren't shown.

Chris L was very irritated with the way the show portrayed his mother's death and his reaction to it. The show made it seem like this was all he talked about. And poor Emily had the personality edited right out of her to support the "delicate Southern flower" storyline.

So I'm not surprised to find out that Ben has a very goofy, silly and fun side. Ashley made reference to it several times in her blogs but we didn't get to see it much because that didn't support his storyline.
You've got THAT right!!!! The thing is that when the editing is that far off, it usually means that there is no real lovestory. I, for one, am totally disappointed in the editing, of the Show.

If there's no real love story this season, then hold on to your hats folks, because we've just seen the debut of the new Meryl Streep and Robert DeNiro!! :giggle:

:missclap: rofl

by Nibbles22 Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:06 pm

chaslom4 wrote:
ironcat wrote:
2observe wrote:
MaggieMae wrote:The editing on this show leaves A LOT to be desired and things that don't fit into the storyline that MF and his minions have for the lead and each contestant aren't shown.

Chris L was very irritated with the way the show portrayed his mother's death and his reaction to it. The show made it seem like this was all he talked about. And poor Emily had the personality edited right out of her to support the "delicate Southern flower" storyline.

So I'm not surprised to find out that Ben has a very goofy, silly and fun side. Ashley made reference to it several times in her blogs but we didn't get to see it much because that didn't support his storyline.
You've got THAT right!!!! The thing is that when the editing is that far off, it usually means that there is no real lovestory. I, for one, am totally disappointed in the editing, of the Show.

If there's no real love story this season, then hold on to your hats folks, because we've just seen the debut of the new Meryl Streep and Robert DeNiro!! :giggle:

:missclap:

That was classic, IC!! :giggle:

by Bhaka Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:13 pm

RealityEscape wrote:Ben is adorable and when he said JP is the "safe" choice didn't he mean it'd be less change for Ashley in geography and flexibility? Ben knows he's tied to the winery. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt instead of using the lack of maturity approach. However, I'm way older than him and part of me will never "mature" but would like to give away some of the parts of me that have! It does appear that JP and Ashley are a great couple whichs is fun.

I'm also "way older" than Ben, and I'm sure that's the reason I'm more uncomfortable than many viewers with Ben's video that was leaked. I'm not making a judgment here, just commenting on the generation thing. My daughter, who is much closer to Ben's age, thought the video was hilarious. So when I saw how swiftly ABC got that video "recalled", I wondered if they were thinking of viewers like me, and wanted to be sure no doors were closed on the possibility of Ben being the next bachelor.

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