Re: Episode 11 - 8/1 Finale - Discussion - Thread #1

[philphan]

^there will be a clear difference in Ashley's demeanor when the fam meets JP vs when they meet Ben. Even if the whole season wasn't so obvious, it would be at that moment. Game over.

:bigsmile:

I wonder how obvious the LCD's are going to be.

Obviously this season was never who will Ash choose, it was will they last through all the crap thrown at them

Ain't that the truth! Just goes to show how strong their relationship really is.

[noobsleuth]

^there will be a clear difference in Ashley's demeanor when the fam meets JP vs when they meet Ben. Even if the whole season wasn't so obvious, it would be at that moment. Game over.

:bigsmile:

I wonder how obvious the LCD's are going to be.

Obviously this season was never who will Ash choose, it was will they last through all the crap thrown at them

Ain't that the truth! Just goes to show how strong their relationship really is.

I know the sis can't but can Ash's parents tell she is in love with JP or do they think she into both guys?

[albean99]

What friends said Ben likes being the center stage, Sjcaligurl? I don't recall reading that.

I don't blame Ashley's sister for having doubts about JP. She may even have them now because she really hasn't had time to get to know him yet. I know she says differently but she knows now that Ashley picked him so has to say it. I do think she's changed her mind about how Ashley is with JP if she's been watching the show.

I wouldn't call Ashley anywhere near the best Bachelorette. My criteria is someone who has the personality which she does but also the empathy scale which she's a little low in. Not as bad as Jen Scheft but the next worst imo. She was cold with Ben C, Ryan, and Ames and we're going to see how much with Ben. I'd even throw in Mickey but since she was calling his bluff I think that's a draw. You can argue the point all you want but remember this is jmo.

For fans of the new couple I guess the end justifies the means and I completely understand. At least (unlike Jen) she did end up with someone she loved.

[sjcaligurl]

^there will be a clear difference in Ashley's demeanor when the fam meets JP vs when they meet Ben. Even if the whole season wasn't so obvious, it would be at that moment. Game over.

:bigsmile:

I wonder how obvious the LCD's are going to be.

Obviously this season was never who will Ash choose, it was will they last through all the crap thrown at them

Ain't that the truth! Just goes to show how strong their relationship really is.

Jenn's and Meredith's seasons are a blur to me but I remember Trista's and everyone from DeAnna's on ... I knew Jillian would pick Ed but I don't remember watching her body language with the other guys. I liked her season but wasn't that into examining everything. With Ali, I could tell the difference when she was with different guys. With DeAnna I could definitely tell. I figure that after Ashley and JP have their FD, she would be totally different around Ben than she even has been before.

[sjcaligurl]

What friends said Ben likes being the center stage, Sjcaligurl? I don't recall reading that.

I don't blame Ashley's sister for having doubts about JP. She may even have them now because she really hasn't had time to get to know him yet. I know she says differently but she knows now that Ashley picked him so has to say it. I do think she's changed her mind about how Ashley is with JP if she's been watching the show.

I wouldn't call Ashley anywhere near the best Bachelorette. My criteria is someone who has the personality which she does but also the empathy scale which she's a little low in. Not as bad as Jen Scheft but the next worst imo. She was cold with Ben C, Ryan, and Ames and we're going to see how much with Ben. I'd even throw in Mickey but since she was calling his bluff I think that's a draw. You can argue the point all you want but remember this is jmo.

For fans of the new couple I guess the end justifies the means and I completely understand. At least (unlike Jen) she did end up with someone she loved.

I can't remember the article it was ... I think it was the one that said he also tried out or wanted to try out for American Idol. It sounds more like the Ben we aren't seeing/haven't seen. If he's the next Bachelor, I wonder how they are going to explain "the change!"

I actually think Ashley has been very empathetic. I was indifferent about her being The Bachelorette. I think Emily is dull, unexposed, non-curious and would not have been a good lead at all. I think Chantal might have been but would she have been crying the whole time? Shawntal would have been my pick but I think Ashley has done just fine. I think she's been more analytical and honest than some of the others. I think she narrowed it down to two of the best guys who she could honestly see her with. You really can't possibly date ALL of the guys or get to know ALL of them well so I think she did a really good job of picking. Despite the overly producer manufactured Bentley drama, this has been one of my favorite seasons and I think that the relationship she and JP cultivated in such a short period of time on camera is one of the best. I think that in her mind, Ben was a clear option and that she really liked him. But there was a definite intangible pull to JP that she had to follow.

Time will tell. It may fizzle but that still doesn't mean that she made the wrong choice. I think she likes who she is when she is with JP and she'll be wiser if they break up. I like being funny and silly but I'm not sure how that would have worked out in the long run. She and Ben are very similar and I don't know how two people can evolve if they are too much alike. I'm not too sure that once Ben got drawn in, he wasn't a little concerned about beating JP ... so much so that he totally wrote him off as a contender and thinks that Ashley just wants JP's lifestyle (can we say denial?) ... He'll be fine now that he's open to the possibility of having a real relationship now. I think he got what he was supposed to get out of the experience and sometimes that's more important than getting the girl. I think that he and Ashley would be good together if they were both much older. Right now, I think they need a contrast.

[ironcat]

^there will be a clear difference in Ashley's demeanor when the fam meets JP vs when they meet Ben. Even if the whole season wasn't so obvious, it would be at that moment. Game over.

Did Ashley meet with Chrystie before she brought Ben to meet them? If so, I'm pretty sure that Ashley was still feeling very raw about her battle with her sister and that would affect her, she says she has no poker face. :Frown:

They have a sneak peak of Ashley talking to her sister on two occasions and she starts crying the minute Chrystie expresses her opinion about JP. That would give it away to me. I don't get why Chrystie was so gaga over Brad and he was 38 years old. JP is 4 years younger than that. What 'lifestyle' is JP living? The big city life? Did Ashley say she wanted to live/have kids in a more diverse environment? Do they even know what kind of life she wants?

Anyway, who is going to tell Ben it wasn't JPs east coast lifestyle that gave him the edge? LOL! I guess he hasn't really been watching the parts with her and JP or maybe he's a little dense.

I don't really get Chrystie or where she's coming from with the "handle" Ashley part? It seriously sounds like a sexual thing when I think about it. Anyway, IA that Ashley's demeanor gives everything away both times. She's basically saying "This is The One, Chrystie, chill, dawg."

I don't have any sisters but I do have some insanely close BFFs and we've definitely had reactions to each others choices in guys sometimes like, "Are you joking? He's never coming near you again! Stop smoking!" But if one of them started reacting like Ash, I would hope that I would take a step back and realize that something is up here. I'm glad she's Team Cupcake now though. I don't understand how one wouldn't be after watching this season.

As for Ben, I need to see it but it's utterly ridiculous to claim that JP was the "safe" choice. If he saw the season, he now knows that JP was the only choice. She was totally different with him and their interactions were on a completely different plane than any other relationship she had going on. I guess he's hurting (still?) so that's why he says it. I do love that it sounds like Ashley turns it around with "no, buddy, YOU were the safe choice." Although, I hate the whole "safe/head" versus "unsafe/heart" choice. Ugh. This isn't a rom-com or Sex and the City, but whatever.

It sounds like Ben was still in a bit of denial when he taped ATFR, or else he was just trying to save face in front of the cameras. Both Jason and Reid had the grace and maturity to admit that they saw signs, either while taping the show, or watching it on TV, that Deanna and Jillian, respectively, had a connection with their chosen one that they didn't have with them. If Ben watched the season, I can't believe he wouldn't be able to see that Ashley never kissed him with anywhere close to the passion that she kissed JP, c'mon, it was beyond obvious. There's nothing "safe" about having the hots for someone vs. being friends with someone else. Wouldn't the exact opposite be true?

I also disagree with the assumption that getting angry at FRC is a clear indication that somebody cared more or was more in love than taking the rejection more graciously. Case in point, Jason and Reid, and I would also throw in Matthew from Meredith's season, although he didn't actually propose. But I suspect he would have still handled himself with class and respect for Meredith at that moment even if she had let him get on one knee (and if her season were filming now, you know MF would have been all over that). All three of those guys, IMO, were 100% sincere in their feelings at the time they got rejected. People react to hurt and/or humiliation differently; some externalize it, like Ben did, some internalize it, like the others. And again, part of the reason Ben reacted that way, IMO, was because he was overconfident. If he had been less "cocky" going in, I think he wouldn't have gotten his back up so quickly at being turned down.

[chicagoowl]

It sounds like Ben was still in a bit of denial when he taped ATFR, or else he was just trying to save face in front of the cameras. Both Jason and Reid had the grace and maturity to admit that they saw signs, either while taping the show, or watching it on TV, that Deanna and Jillian, respectively, had a connection with their chosen one that they didn't have with them. If Ben watched the season, I can't believe he wouldn't be able to see that Ashley never kissed him with anywhere close to the passion that she kissed JP, c'mon, it was beyond obvious. There's nothing "safe" about having the hots for someone vs. being friends with someone else. Wouldn't the exact opposite be true?

I also disagree with the assumption that getting angry at FRC is a clear indication that somebody cared more or was more in love than taking the rejection more graciously. Case in point, Jason and Reid, and I would also throw in Matthew from Meredith's season, although he didn't actually propose. But I suspect he would have still handled himself with class and respect for Meredith at that moment even if she had let him get on one knee (and if her season were filming now, you know MF would have been all over that). All three of those guys, IMO, were 100% sincere in their feelings at the time they got rejected. People react to hurt and/or humiliation differently; some externalize it, like Ben did, some internalize it, like the others. And again, part of the reason Ben reacted that way, IMO, was because he was overconfident. If he had been less "cocky" going in, I think he wouldn't have gotten his back up so quickly at being turned down.

I think Ben was oblivious to JP and Ash's connection. JP was more realistic and acknowledged that Ashley was getting close to other guys. JP may not seem as outgoing and fun as Ben... but he and Ash have fun. And being goofy is just one facet of Ashley's personality. Remember, she's a driven type A, serious, personality .... she's in dental school, pursues her hobbies, likes to dance.and seems to like a more fast-paced "east coast" lifestyle.. This jives more with JP....

[clueless]

I'm going to politely disagree pbmax, and I look forward to them proving all the naysayers wrong. 8)

I loved Ali's season and Roberto was my pick from the beginning. With that said, I do recall Ali's emotional breakdown and slinging snot on the beach when Frank left and it seemed that a popular opinion was that Ali was really really into Frank and that he was initially going to the end (F1/F2). I have found that everything we experience and/or go through in life teaches us "something" and maybe Ashley's humiliation with Bentley taught her something that allowed her to finish this process with a different set of eyes and a different heart. Just a thought.

[skitts]

I would imagine, since the MTA was taped before the FD's episode aired, Ben has a new perspective that would not include 'safe choice' included in it. Those two dates could not have been more different, Ben-fun and playful, JP-romantic and endearing. There is absolutely no denying what we all saw on the TV...JP was it for her!

[sjcaligurl]

Well, you don't want to tell a guy that the chemistry wasn't as strong though I think that's kinda what she told Ryan. LOL! Ryan should have had a hint too because she totally shut him down with the physical stuff after that first kiss. She did have some with Ben but she really would have had to get really dominant with him to get something out of him. I was getting frustrated looking at them. Ames and Lucas had more going for them in that department and she didn't like them as much. Ben is quite 'open' enough or maybe Ashley just didn't draw it out of him from what we could see on camera. I hope he's not like that with the next girl.

[ironcat]

What friends said Ben likes being the center stage, Sjcaligurl? I don't recall reading that.

I don't blame Ashley's sister for having doubts about JP. She may even have them now because she really hasn't had time to get to know him yet. I know she says differently but she knows now that Ashley picked him so has to say it. I do think she's changed her mind about how Ashley is with JP if she's been watching the show.

I wouldn't call Ashley anywhere near the best Bachelorette. My criteria is someone who has the personality which she does but also the empathy scale which she's a little low in. Not as bad as Jen Scheft but the next worst imo. She was cold with Ben C, Ryan, and Ames and we're going to see how much with Ben. I'd even throw in Mickey but since she was calling his bluff I think that's a draw. You can argue the point all you want but remember this is jmo.

For fans of the new couple I guess the end justifies the means and I completely understand. At least (unlike Jen) she did end up with someone she loved.

I don't know about any comments from friends, but I think that video that Ben produced with his buddy (now removed by ABC) is not something that anybody who didn't enjoy some kind of attention would make, do you? There is no doubt in my mind that "sad, innocent Ben" was a far cry from the real Ben, and as Ashley said, she was surprised his family wasn't loud and goofy like he is, so that's proof right there. And I think we will see his loud and goofy side on display when he meets Ashley's family, which is one of the things I'm sure they loved about him. He and Ash obviously became great buddies during this experience, and the family was no doubt very comfortable with the easy casual rapport the two had. Contrast that with the nervousnes and intensity that both Ash and JP probably felt knowing that he was meeting his future in-laws. It's no wonder they saw JP as the more serious, "boring" one, and thought Ash wasn't being her bubbly self with him. But I think they forgot that Ash was introducing them to her future husband, not her future boyfriend, and didn't take the importance of the situation to both of them into consideration.

And albean, on a totally different note, my apologies to you for dismissing your analysis of the creased jacket sleeves; you were right, and I was wrong. They were all the same guy! Just further proof that I'm not a great sleuther.

[mnmhughes]

^there will be a clear difference in Ashley's demeanor when the fam meets JP vs when they meet Ben. Even if the whole season wasn't so obvious, it would be at that moment. Game over.

Did Ashley meet with Chrystie before she brought Ben to meet them? If so, I'm pretty sure that Ashley was still feeling very raw about her battle with her sister and that would affect her, she says she has no poker face. :Frown:

They have a sneak peak of Ashley talking to her sister on two occasions and she starts crying the minute Chrystie expresses her opinion about JP. That would give it away to me. I don't get why Chrystie was so gaga over Brad and he was 38 years old. JP is 4 years younger than that. What 'lifestyle' is JP living? The big city life? Did Ashley say she wanted to live/have kids in a more diverse environment? Do they even know what kind of life she wants?

Anyway, who is going to tell Ben it wasn't JPs east coast lifestyle that gave him the edge? LOL! I guess he hasn't really been watching the parts with her and JP or maybe he's a little dense.

I don't really get Chrystie or where she's coming from with the "handle" Ashley part? It seriously sounds like a sexual thing when I think about it. Anyway, IA that Ashley's demeanor gives everything away both times. She's basically saying "This is The One, Chrystie, chill, dawg."

I don't have any sisters but I do have some insanely close BFFs and we've definitely had reactions to each others choices in guys sometimes like, "Are you joking? He's never coming near you again! Stop smoking!" But if one of them started reacting like Ash, I would hope that I would take a step back and realize that something is up here. I'm glad she's Team Cupcake now though. I don't understand how one wouldn't be after watching this season.

As for Ben, I need to see it but it's utterly ridiculous to claim that JP was the "safe" choice. If he saw the season, he now knows that JP was the only choice. She was totally different with him and their interactions were on a completely different plane than any other relationship she had going on. I guess he's hurting (still?) so that's why he says it. I do love that it sounds like Ashley turns it around with "no, buddy, YOU were the safe choice." Although, I hate the whole "safe/head" versus "unsafe/heart" choice. Ugh. This isn't a rom-com or Sex and the City, but whatever.

I also wonder what Chrystie thought when she saw the "demure" JP going at it with her sister in the rain? :hearts love: :!:

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