Episode 8 - 7/18 Hometown dates - Discussion - Spoilers

2observe wrote:

bing2262 wrote:Ben was practically non-existent in the show until the orphanage group date on episode 4 where he got the GRD rose. JP was one of the front runners since episode 1. JP had a good lead over Ben in terms of emotional and physical connection with Ashley and you can see that in the pajama date, the cute SC of Ashley playfully hugging JP's leg and their passionate kisses at the beach , how pained and concerned she was when JP was being pummeled by Mickey in Thai boxing and her happiness when JP won the fight etc, etc. IMO,JP was Ashley's F1 since episode 3.

Ben tried his best to win Ashley's heart but JP had already won her heart completely on their HK date , episode 6,which according to Ashley in her blog was the start of her honest, truthful love story. JP also said in his Vlog that their HK date was the turning point and the episode that he will never forget.

Ben wasn't shown in the beginning because Bentley was the focus for her F1, remember? You only saw Ben emerge after Bentley left, making Ben the new F1. It was after Bentley left that I notice Ashley referring to her husband being there. What has Ben done, aside from just being who he is, to win Ashley's heart??? I remember Ben talking about how Ashley was "buzzing" around him to get his attention. jmo

After Bentley left and she lost interest in William and Ryan, Ash was down to just JP as far as her favorites, and while she may have been happy to stop the show right there, the producers needed her to find a few other guys to bring to F4, so she gave Ben a second look. You're right, she needed to get his attention in Phuket, because prior to that, he was more interested in hanging out with the other guys and teasing JP by pretending he had kissed Ashley (despite having spent limited time with her because he wasn't aggressive), and she found she liked him well enough to consider putting him in her possible top 4, and that's why he got a date his first solo date the following week (5). Unfortunately for him, he was already several steps behind JP, and has been playing catchup ever since. If Ben was her new F1, why didn't she tell him about Bentley before telling JP, and why not even give him the courtesy to tell him privately instead of lumping him in with the other guys? Pretty rude on her part I'd say.

2observe wrote:

bing2262 wrote:

Gina wrote:

bing2262 wrote:Ben was practically non-existent in the show until the orphanage group date on episode 4 where he got the GRD rose. JP was one of the front runners since episode 1. JP had a good lead over Ben in terms of emotional and physical connection with Ashley and you can see that in the pajama date, the cute SC of Ashley playfully hugging JP's leg and their passionate kisses at the beach , how pained and concerned she was when JP was being pummeled by Mickey in Thai boxing and her happiness when JP won the fight etc, etc. IMO,JP was Ashley's F1 since episode 3.

Ben tried his best to win Ashley's heart but JP had already won her heart completely on their HK date on episode 6,which according to Ashley in her blog was the start of her honest, truthful love story. JP also said in his Vlog that their HK date was the turning point and the episode that he will never forget.

And regarding Ashley holding on to JP's leg for dear life while he's painting, (of course TPTB didn't show it, they wanted us to think JP and Ashley didn't flirt on that date). I guess they did get their 'flirting time' in on that date, even before the hot beach in the rain that night. :Nod: It's been said that TPTB select and buy the gifts anyway, no big deal to me. JMO

Here are some SCs as proof how strong JP and ASh feel about each other up until HK.

Well imo, this just supports JP having a physical edit.

Regarding the bolded, if that's true, God Bless Ben, he's gonna need it to get over watching the 'physical edit'. It's ten times more than Emily or Robeto ever had to see, esp. when she's "pecking" her kisses to Ben, compared to these. I doubt TPTB forced her to be that intimate for the physical edit, just my opinion, we can agree to disagree about it, no problemo! :D

Well at least we know Ben has access to a lot of wine!

[quote="2observe"]

sydney1 wrote:Production may do something to show a slight edge one have over the other, but it is not with the gifts the lead bring to the family.....That would be very tacky!

Thanks. I wasn't able to find Frank's or Kirk's HTD, but I was able to find Roberto's and Chris L.'s HTD. I saw Ali bringing a large gift bag to Roberto's family, but I did not see Ali bring a gift to Chris L. (although I heard her mentioned the wine). So, I would not say just how, during Ali's Show, they showed the difference. But, I do know that with Ashley's Show, it's pretty clear that the viewers saw what Ashley brought Constantine and what she brought Ben. The fact that we didn't see anything for JP and Ames, and the fact that Ames was let go at F4; PLUS, the fact that JP is standing in the F3 position at the F3 Toast, it stands to reason (at least to me) that JP was F3. But remember, it's just my opinion. :D [/quote

And JP may not be the F1 if you are using the line up position from Alis season, but in DeAnna season it was a little different, her F1 was in the same position as JP...I guess it just depends on who you are trying to promote which one you use... :greenman:

[quote="sydney1"]

2observe wrote:

sydney1 wrote:Production may do something to show a slight edge one have over the other, but it is not with the gifts the lead bring to the family.....That would be very tacky!

Thanks. I wasn't able to find Frank's or Kirk's HTD, but I was able to find Roberto's and Chris L.'s HTD. I saw Ali bringing a large gift bag to Roberto's family, but I did not see Ali bring a gift to Chris L. (although I heard her mentioned the wine). So, I would not say just how, during Ali's Show, they showed the difference. But, I do know that with Ashley's Show, it's pretty clear that the viewers saw what Ashley brought Constantine and what she brought Ben. The fact that we didn't see anything for JP and Ames, and the fact that Ames was let go at F4; PLUS, the fact that JP is standing in the F3 position at the F3 Toast, it stands to reason (at least to me) that JP was F3. But remember, it's just my opinion. :D [/quote

And JP may not be the F1 if you are using the line up position from Alis season, but in DeAnna season it was a little different, her F1 was in the same position as JP...I guess it just depends on who you are trying to promote which one you use... :greenman:

I was referring to the F3 Toast position only, for Jill, Ali and Ashley.

[/quote] Well imo, this just supports JP having a physical edit.[/quote]Regarding the bolded, if that's true, God Bless Ben, he's gonna need it to get over watching the 'physical edit'. It's ten times more than Emily or Robeto ever had to see, esp. when she's "pecking" her kisses to Ben, compared to these. I doubt TPTB forced her to be that intimate for the physical edit, just my opinion, we can agree to disagree about it, no problemo! :D [/quote]

She is melting back into JP in that pic. Like I said, if Ben is F1, its going to take alot more than a journal to explain what was going on with those 2. :giggle:

So you are only using the ones that point to a Ben F1, that's cool, I was just pointing out that the toast position is not in stone, it has been different, and what's to say it is not different this season.

Is the fact that two years in a row, the toast order matched the finish order of the F3, a deliberate move by producers (and I still would love for one person to give a logical reason WHY they would purposely do this), or is it just a coincidence? There are a lot of coincidences that happen twice or even three times. Five or six times in a row? Maybe not a coincidence. IMO.

If we used other past show edits, the timing of JP's date in epi 3 points to him. As Love_me posted, in another thread, that's more of a clue to the F1. Guess we use what past show "edit" that fits with how we feel and our opinion, and it can go either way imo.

One more week til the FRC and we'll all have our answers and see which edits TPTB decided to use or NOT use.

ironcat wrote:Is the fact that two years in a row, the toast order matched the finish order of the F3, a deliberate move by producers (and I still would love for one person to give a logical reason WHY they would purposely do this), or is it just a coincidence? There are a lot of coincidences that happen twice or even three times. Five or six times in a row? Maybe not a coincidence. IMO.

I thought that they actually changed things up every few seasons, because they caught onto people figuring out their patterns, in proving who F1 was.

Bronwyn wrote:

ironcat wrote:Is the fact that two years in a row, the toast order matched the finish order of the F3, a deliberate move by producers (and I still would love for one person to give a logical reason WHY they would purposely do this), or is it just a coincidence? There are a lot of coincidences that happen twice or even three times. Five or six times in a row? Maybe not a coincidence. IMO.

I thought that they actually changed things up every few seasons, because they caught onto people figuring out their patterns, in proving who F1 was.

Yep and the theory that the lead never walks the F1 out from HTD changed this season too.. Fleiss is getting more clever with the editing to make stump us.

Bronwyn wrote:

ironcat wrote:Is the fact that two years in a row, the toast order matched the finish order of the F3, a deliberate move by producers (and I still would love for one person to give a logical reason WHY they would purposely do this), or is it just a coincidence? There are a lot of coincidences that happen twice or even three times. Five or six times in a row? Maybe not a coincidence. IMO.

I thought that they actually changed things up every few seasons, because they caught onto people figuring out their patterns, in proving who F1 was.

I think they have interns or minions monitoring different message boards.