Re: Final Rose Ceremony - Screencaps - Thread #3

[chaslom4]

I am still confused on this. She states that she felt so alone - that she didn't feel she could stay on in the show. What is there to convince me that JP was important to her at this stage? Why would she be ready to give up if she had a spark with JP? She doesn't need more than one to fall for. She was so snowed with Bentley - what was her situation with JP?
Why do we "know" that Ben and Ashley had never had a kiss before? Ben and Ashley were holding hands during their conversation after the orphanage date and Ben went right in for the kiss - no hesitation at all. I got the impression that their relationship had stepped up a bit because Ashley was feeling something. It did not seem like a first kiss at all - especially since we have come to know that Ben is a cautious type.

The second half of your post referred to BL which I am terrible at reading!!! Her looks sometimes look all the same to me.

As far as the kiss. I believe they did kiss before the orphanage date. I think Ben even told JP that they did. Why they didn't show it? ehh reminds me of Reid. Maybe he did comfort her after the Roast date and they did end up kissing but for whatever reason TPTB did not feel it was important at the time. Instead we got to see Ryan work his moves and get the rose. :puke:

This is one of the biggest reasons why if Ben is F1, it won't make any sense to me. At all. To many key moments in this storyline that Ben was not shown a part of if he is F1. JMO

[Samantharose]

I am still confused on this. She states that she felt so alone - that she didn't feel she could stay on in the show. What is there to convince me that JP was important to her at this stage? Why would she be ready to give up if she had a spark with JP? She doesn't need more than one to fall for. She was so snowed with Bentley - what was her situation with JP?
Why do we "know" that Ben and Ashley had never had a kiss before? Ben and Ashley were holding hands during their conversation after the orphanage date and Ben went right in for the kiss - no hesitation at all. I got the impression that their relationship had stepped up a bit because Ashley was feeling something. It did not seem like a first kiss at all - especially since we have come to know that Ben is a cautious type.

The second half of your post referred to BL which I am terrible at reading!!! Her looks sometimes look all the same to me.

As far as the kiss. I believe they did kiss before the orphanage date. I think Ben even told JP that they did. Why they didn't show it? ehh reminds me of Reid. Maybe he did comfort her after the Roast date and they did end up kissing but for whatever reason TPTB did not feel it was important at the time. Instead we got to see Ryan work his moves and get the rose. :puke:

The guys were teasing JP. I don't think Ben had kissed her by then. When Ben said he'd kissed her, Blake said you're full of **%%.

[Jeepers]

I have never seen one bit of proof that Ben didn't kiss Ash? Can someone prove that he didn't. It iwas immediately assumed that he was was fooling around and teasing JP, So then can some one show me proof of that.

[ironcat]

I have never seen one bit of proof that Ben didn't kiss Ash? Can someone prove that he didn't. It iwas immediately assumed that he was was fooling around and teasing JP, So then can some one show me proof of that.

Can you provide proof that he did?

Personally, I don''t understand why Ben fans are so anxious to believe that he kissed Ashley earlier than was shown, because as someone just said, that would shed further doubt on him being F1, as the producers would have no reason not to show the first kiss of the newly engaged couple.

[mnmhughes]

I have never seen one bit of proof that Ben didn't kiss Ash? Can someone prove that he didn't. It iwas immediately assumed that he was was fooling around and teasing JP, So then can some one show me proof of that.

I think the opposite is true, as well. Can anyone prove that Ben DID kiss Ash? I think we're at a standstill here. Both sides are going to believe what they want since there's no evidence either way!

[Reidiscool]

I am still confused on this. She states that she felt so alone - that she didn't feel she could stay on in the show. What is there to convince me that JP was important to her at this stage? Why would she be ready to give up if she had a spark with JP? She doesn't need more than one to fall for. She was so snowed with Bentley - what was her situation with JP?
Why do we "know" that Ben and Ashley had never had a kiss before? Ben and Ashley were holding hands during their conversation after the orphanage date and Ben went right in for the kiss - no hesitation at all. I got the impression that their relationship had stepped up a bit because Ashley was feeling something. It did not seem like a first kiss at all - especially since we have come to know that Ben is a cautious type.

The second half of your post referred to BL which I am terrible at reading!!! Her looks sometimes look all the same to me.



As far as the kiss. I believe they did kiss before the orphanage date. I think Ben even told JP that they did. Why they didn't show it? ehh reminds me of Reid. Maybe he did comfort her after the Roast date and they did end up kissing but for whatever reason TPTB did not feel it was important at the time. Instead we got to see Ryan work his moves and get the rose. :puke:

This is one of the biggest reasons why if Ben is F1, it won't make any sense to me. At all. To many key moments in this storyline that Ben was not shown a part of if he is F1. JMO

They didn't show their first kiss but made sure the viewers knew it had happened with the Ben/JP conversation. Showing the early interactions would not fit with the dark horse edit, the guy who is making a late dash for her heart. That is the story line. CH has almost guaranteed us that Ben's edit will build in the upcoming episodes. JMO.

[Guest]

I am still confused on this. She states that she felt so alone - that she didn't feel she could stay on in the show. What is there to convince me that JP was important to her at this stage? Why would she be ready to give up if she had a spark with JP? She doesn't need more than one to fall for. She was so snowed with Bentley - what was her situation with JP?
Why do we "know" that Ben and Ashley had never had a kiss before? Ben and Ashley were holding hands during their conversation after the orphanage date and Ben went right in for the kiss - no hesitation at all. I got the impression that their relationship had stepped up a bit because Ashley was feeling something. It did not seem like a first kiss at all - especially since we have come to know that Ben is a cautious type.

The second half of your post referred to BL which I am terrible at reading!!! Her looks sometimes look all the same to me.



As far as the kiss. I believe they did kiss before the orphanage date. I think Ben even told JP that they did. Why they didn't show it? ehh reminds me of Reid. Maybe he did comfort her after the Roast date and they did end up kissing but for whatever reason TPTB did not feel it was important at the time. Instead we got to see Ryan work his moves and get the rose. :puke:

This is one of the biggest reasons why if Ben is F1, it won't make any sense to me. At all. To many key moments in this storyline that Ben was not shown a part of if he is F1. JMO

They didn't show their first kiss but made sure the viewers knew it had happened with the Ben/JP conversation. Showing the early interactions would not fit with the dark horse edit, the guy who is making a late dash for her heart. That is the story line. CH has almost guaranteed us that Ben's edit will build in the upcoming episodes. JMO.

[ironcat]

Maybe it happened, but it was a really awkward kiss. Better they didn't show it. :giggle:

[Guest]

The guy who has his hands in his pockets reminds me of Ben--his posture, stance, etc. Yet I also think it's Ben in the screen cap of the guy holding Ashley's hands. Did I read earlier on the board that the screen caps showing the Bachelorette holding hands at FRC is usually F1?

[clueless]

It appears the current line of debate is whether JP was the frontrunner early on or Ben. I'm curious, has anyone posted a list of the pros and cons for JP being F1 and pros and cons of Ben being F1?

[cfck2222]

It appears the current line of debate is whether JP was the frontrunner early on or Ben. I'm curious, has anyone posted a list of the pros and cons for JP being F1 and pros and cons of Ben being F1?

In terms of the clues they've given out? I haven't updated it in a week but here's the latest version of the one I did from the General Discussion - Spoilers thread. I haven't updated it to include stuff from Ashley's philly.com interview yet and I'm sure there'll be much more after tomorrow night's episode too. I'll try posting an update tonight or tomorrow morning to be as complete as possible before tomorrow night's episode.

Why JP is F1
1: RS says JP is F1 and he and Ashley are engaged.
2: Fijiman says JP and Ashley are engaged.
3: Blondiegal has a source who says JP is F1 but this is not the source that has given Blondiegal the last 2 F1s.
3: Physical chemistry with Ashley, which with Bachelorettes, usually means the F1 (Meredith, Jillian, Ali, only Trista could be considered the exception). [Thanks ironcat]
4: Ashley told JP about Bent's return privately and before she told any of the other guys including Lucas with whom she had a solo date and everybody else she had a group date with.
5: Ashley's People blog for Episode 6 says "Truth is the only way to build a real love. And in more ways than one, this episode marks the beginning of my beautiful, truthful, honest, genuine love story." Episode 6 was Ashley's 2nd 1-on-1 date with JP and Ben F wasn't featured that prominently in it.
6: ET Canada claimed to have photos of them leaving the same place in New York within hours. Those pictures never surfaced in the US and it hasn't been verified that they were actually in the same place. However they were both in New York that weekend (June 25th/26th). JP was photographed in the subway and Ashley H was there visiting Ashley S. EDIT: JP's location has now been identified as a place near his work and there is no proof Ashley H was anywhere near there.
7: Ashley said "Bye JP, Bye everyone!" at the end of her 6/27 Jimmy Kimmel interview.
8: JP had solo date in episode 3, same as F1s Ed, Roberto, Ian, Ryan, Jerry, Emily. No F1 has ever had first solo date in episode 5. [Thanks ironcat]
9: JP defended Ashley in his vlog for Episode 6 telling everybody to keep in mind that there are stresses people on the show are under that people watching at home may not understand.
10: Shadow/sun analysis appears to place JP (based on jawline and lack of hair around collar) at the FRC later than Ben F (IDd by hands and watch). [Thanks to many sleuthers]
11: OK and In Touch both said JP's F1 but in negative stories saying the relationship is over or not going well. In Touch's story has a few of the same key words/storyline ("jerk"/wandering eye) as a story on Roberto that came out last year after he was revealed as Ali's F1.
12: Life & Style said Ashley is engaged and her F1 had had his heart broken before but is in the "happiest he's ever been". Star quoted an unnamed friend of JP's saying he's in the "best place he's ever been".
13: West and Will both commented on Ashley's special connection with JP in their exit interviews. Will said "J.P. is a great guy, and if I could pick a guy for her I would pick J.P. I saw their interactions and the look on their faces when they got to be around each other, and it's that look two people have when they're really in love." Wes said ""I think based on my gut, just from seeing her interactions with people, I really thought that JP was going to be the one that she picked. They had this natural chemistry together. You could see whenever we were in a group together and he was there, she tended to gravitate towards him. There was just this easy kind of connection evident from them. I think he would make the best choice."
14: Not seen in New York when Ashley was in LA (she was spotted flying out to LA June 29th and back in Philadelphia airport July 5th-http://www.newspusher.com/EN/post/1309882501-2/exclusive-ashley-hebert-lands-in-philadelphia-airport-in-a-cheery-mood.html). JP allegedly spotted in New York July 6th (http://twitter.com/#!/JaimenLee/status/88756832562188290) "Willing to bet $$ I just saw the bachelorettes JP Rosenbaum on Park and 20th what does this mean?!?!"
15: Early in the season Ashley S was gushy about JP and Ashley H but made a crack about Ben F reminding her of the Geico caveman.
16: Chris H had a slip up in an interview when he was defending not telling Ash about Bentley. He said "should we tell Ali what Roberto said behind her back or should we tell Ashley what JP is saying" [thanks pattycake92]
17: In Ashley's 1st press conference after filming ending she said "Ashley Hebert: Yes, I mean I think what I realize is that I went into a thing I wanted just a good man and somebody who is loyal and a family man, and I think as time went on there were more things that I saw in the guys that I wanted but most importantly what I realize is that I wanted someone that made feel good and made me feel like a women, made me feel like I was able to be vulnerable. And so, yes, definitely as time went I started to realize more about what I wanted." She reiterated "I mean I am looking for somebody that I feel I can trust, like somebody that’s really loyal and a family man and I said that I go into it and I don’t know if I get them kind of being redundant here, but I just want somebody that makes me feel. I like my life off of my gut and intuition and I have learned to trust that and I think it has led me to some really great places. So I am just looking for somebody that makes me feel." In Ep 6 Ashley said the following about JP: "He’s such a loyal guy. He’s determined and he’s committed. He’s gonna be a great family man. He is the total package for me." and "I’m so comfortable around him, I feel secure, I feel relaxed, I feel like I don’t have a care in the world. It’s a good feeling, it really is a good feeling. I really feel like there may be somebody here for me." Ashley's 1st 1-on-1 date with JP involved her being tired and emotionally spent after Bent left and she said in the People blog JP was the best guy for that. [Thanks JBF]
18: In the same press conference Ashley said "How do I answer this without obviously saying too much? I have to say that there were points in time where I thought that I had a front-runner and things change quickly. I will tell you that, I mean, they go up and down and back and forth. Yes that’s I guess that’s all I am going to say." Bent was presented as an early frontrunner and so was William along with JP. JP's been the only steady frontrunner up to this point. [Thanks JBF]
19: Ashley gave JP the group date rose because of their conversation about the tough time he was having due to jealousy and said she thought there may be good things ahead for them.

Why JP is not F1
1: RS says JP is F1 and he and Ashley are engaged (Fleissed again?)
2: Fijiman says Ben and Ashley are engaged.
3: Physical chemistry edit didn't bode well for F2 Kiptyn (Jillian) or F2 Chantal (Brad)
4: Too obvious, too early.
5: Both his dates have been paired with the Bent storyline.
6: He's the public's favorite right now and the public favorite often isn't F1 but instead is being courted to be the next Bachelor.
7: The F1 has never been shown dealing with jealousy on the show. However, this wasn't a confrontational jealousy (which Ashley made sure to find out, with JP admitting it was more of a "don't want to talk to any of the guys" type of situation) and the conversation Ashley and JP had about it seemed frank, honest, and respectful.

Why Ben is F1
1: Fijiman says Ben and Ashley are engaged.
2: Hidden
3: West mentioned Ben F as somebody who's good with Ashley: " As far as maybe another person who would be up here, probably Ben F. He's really easy to get along with and super funny. He's always so laid back no matter what the situation and I thought that was really cool."
4: In her Episode 4 blog (when Ben F got the group date rose at the orphanage) Ashley said "Looking back at this week, the most important lesson I took away is that the best type of love starts off with a slow burn, and eventually turns into something much brighter than a spark ever could."
5: CH included Ben F among guys confident enough in his relationship with Ashley that he didn't react negatively to her news about Bent coming to Hong Kong.
6: Ashley S's gotten more balanced in her live tweets since the show started and Ben F actually tweeted her back when she complained about his yellow sweater.
7: TheBachelor.TV keeps tweeting out behind the scenes pictures of Ashley and Ben F
8: Ashley's twitter profile picture is of her from the Ep 2 dance date which was a group date where Ben F and his team won. [Thanks allykat]
9: ABC's May 3rd press release described Ben F as a "handsome broken hearted winemaker" meaning he might fit Life & Style's description of Ashley's F1. [Thanks happyntexas]
10: In the season's 1st press conference Ashley said "So I would have to say one of my favorite group dates was, we are in Thailand and we actually renovated an orphanage and that was the most rewarding and probably the most exciting group dates that I went on. I mean it's something that I will remember for the rest of life." Ben F got the group date rose from that date and Ashley commented in her blog about how much he impressed and touched her during that date. [Thanks JBF]
11: In the same press conference Ashley said "How do I answer this without obviously saying too much? I have to say that there were points in time where I thought that I had a front-runner and things change quickly. I will tell you that, I mean, they go up and down and back and forth. Yes that’s I guess that’s all I am going to say." JP was more of an early frontrunner than Ben F but this statement isn't that specific about when Ashley's frontrunners changed. [Thanks JBF]
12: Ben F razzed JP and said he (Ben F) had already kissed Ashley which seemed to get to JP. JP also said to Ashley that it kind of stung for the 1st time when he saw her arrive to pick up Ben F for his 1st 1-on-1. Showing JP knows he has reason to feel "threatened" by Ashley's connection with Ben F? Though JP also said he understood it's the "nature of the beast" and he can take it.
13: Ben F gets 1st overnight date and somebody gets jealous. Molly (F2 turned F1) got an overnight date during Jason Mesnick's Bachelor season.
14: The only date where Ben F and JP were both present (the group date to the Thai orphanage), Ben F got the rose.
15: Ashley VO says she thinks she's falling in love with Ben.

Why Ben is not F1
1: Ben F was one of CH's 5 "Ones to Watch" which has never included F1 for B'ettes (only 1 F1 in the B/ette franchise was in there: Shayne during Matt's season) [Thanks ironcat]
2: Fijiman says JP and Ashley are engaged.
3: Tweeting "Hi. I'm writing back." in reply to Michelle Money. Tweet deleted. Also socially tweeting Jesse K/Natalie Getz and several other people in the Bachelor world. Those tweets also deleted. Ben F is allegedly not the only person with access to the evolvewines twitter account. Mike F officially added to @evolvewines twitter profile on July 4th.
4: Jesse K said in Bachelorette Beatdown that he'd seen Ben F and he was sure Ben F was not F1. But he did not say why so we don't know if he just saw Ben F or saw him do something that would make it unlikely he's F1.
5: So hidden people see more of his bromance with Dino than his connection with Ashley.
6: Allegedly seen 3 or 4 times out in San Francisco area during July 4th weekend when Ashley had flown to LA to sit down with CH but also possibly spend a safehouse weekend with her F1: Puma Springs Vineyard posted on FB (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Puma-Springs-Vineyards/130364593709901) on July 1st about meeting with Ben and Mike from Evolve Wines ("Had a great meeting today with Ben and Mike from Evolve Wines who are going to be taking some of our fruit this year for their single vineyard Cabernet. Ben is currently on the Bachelorette show on TV and in two weeks the show will be aired from Benziger Family Winery who take the rest of our fruit.")

Ben from the bachelorette at the ferry building farmers market. Much cuter in person! #suchagroupie

Link not available but tweet was posted July 2nd by a lady who lives in San Francisco. [Thanks pattycake92]
A deleted tweet had Ben barrel tasting on July 3rd with B/ette producer @theyearofelan. [Thanks reason - did anybody else see the original tweet and who it came from?]
http://twitter.com/#!/according2alexa/status/88011357131255808

can't believe @caitzillla met Ben F from #bachelorette today! so patriotic!

July 4th. Location of sighting unknown.
7: Ben retweeted a link to a snarky blog (lost angeles) that included Ashley in its equal opportunity snark. But he is allegedly not the only one with access to the evolvewines twitter account. [Thanks Alanna]
8: Ben's vlog after his 1st 1-on-1 date was arguably dry and flat compared to JP's.
9: Ashley S. posted: "Honestly, I'm surprised about the tweeting as well. As soon as we were found out, they shut us down. However, I think it is in very poor taste for my season's girls or Ash's guys to tweet to each other about meeting up. I think they could wait 5 more weeks or use DM on twitter to at least be a little more discreet. That's uber-disrespectful to Ash and the show." -- posted on Tweets/Facebook Updates - Discussion - Spoilers by AshleyS on Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:26 am [Thanks Cari]
10: BenF's private time with Ashley during the cocktail party where she revealed Bent had visited in Hong Kong was not shown and he was only shown making a supportive but mild comment that Ashley will "figure it out" because she's a "smart girl" and "she needs to focus on the guys that are left." [Thanks ninu and JBF]
11: Previous overnight date went to F2 Chantal. Molly was technically F2 though she became F1.
12: If Ben F had really kissed Ashley before he razzed JP about it, they didn't show it which is strange.
13: Ben F was shown saying he didn't think JP would get the group date rose but JP did get the group date rose.

Links to People's B'ette coverage including Ashley's blogs: http://www.people.com/people/news/category/0,,MediaProductsTax:TVTheBacheloretteSeries_2,00.html

Ashley's press conference May 19th: (thanks JBF)
http://www.abcmedianet.com/assets/pr%5Chtml/051911_05.html

Watch list:
ColeDunlop (http://twitter.com/#!/ColeDunlop/status/89374182521053184):

@evolvewines great seeing you last night flan, next week will be awesome! Looking forward to sipping some cab 11:44 AM Jul 8th via Twitter for iPhone

Followed by @TheRealBGM whom @evolvewines tweeted (http://twitter.com/#!/evolvewines/status/90138472425328640)

Ashley allegedly spotted at King Of Prussia mall July 9th:

Just saw @ashhebert at the KOP mall. Completely adorable. And yes, I'm a guy that recognized The Bachelorette...deal with it.

From Fleiss's twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/fleissmeister/status/90126671037988864) and CH's FB (thanks atlanta1221) on July 10th:

Tomorrow night's show contains a revealing clue to the eventual outcome of Ashley's quest for love...

MTA outtakes (past seasons have featured a lot of J/Ed, Aliberto, Bremily) [thanks ninu, CarrieAlexander]

HTD dates: No goodbye between the lead and F1? [thanks ninu]

References to the future by the lead and F1 using approximately the same words? [thanks ninu]

HTD previews make Ben F's homecoming look really emotional and sweet with Ben F getting all teary and lovable and huggable. The previews show Ashley asking JP how he can be sure about his feelings for her and JP's mother is shown casting doubt on account of JP having gotten hurt in the past.

[clueless]

Thank you cfck2222 for responding to my post and for the great breakdown.

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