Re: Final Rose Ceremony - Screencaps - Thread #3

[nutty1]

Many, many pages back they hashed and re-hashed all the light, the photography, the foot sizes, the hand comparisons (with the bump on the hand and the curved thumb), the way that Ashley wears her bangs, etc.
The concensus was that was Ben on the left in the dark suit holding Ashley's hand with her right hand and tattoo wrist showing in the correct place.

The lighting on the guy walking down the plank with Ashley running after him was determined to be earlier in the day by the light which would be consistent with the timing on the guy in the dark suit.

Now what still seems to be up in the air is the other suit guy that we see the shoulder and the jaw.

I know...but it's still fun to live in my own little fantasy world for a bit longer, LOL!!

[Guest]

[quote="happyntexas"]

I don't know why it's supposed to be Ben leaving when it's actually JP or GSG that walks away. Doesn't make any sense to me. Did anyone stop to think that maybe it's JP that's the f2? Stranger things have happened.

:brav:

Thank you for saying that.....I've really been sitting on my hands trying not to type that in.....because everyone seems like it is a sure done deal that JP is F1.[/quote]

That's true........so many are thinking this is a done deal.........IMO, not so much........LOL.



BTW, I heard that the BSG comes last to the FRC, is that true.......

[Guest]

[quote="Coastal"]

I don't know why it's supposed to be Ben leaving when it's actually JP or GSG that walks away. Doesn't make any sense to me. Did anyone stop to think that maybe it's JP that's the f2? Stranger things have happened.

:brav:

Thank you for saying that.....I've really been sitting on my hands trying not to type that in.....because everyone seems like it is a sure done deal that JP is F1.[/quote]

That's true........so many are thinking this is a done deal.........IMO, not so much........LOL.



BTW, I heard that the BSG comes last to the FRC, is that true.......

I have thought this in the past. That the plane landing and BSG is after GSG.......but then that starts a lighting discussion that makes my head go wonky. LOL So, I live on my river of denial.

[albean99]

All I know is that GSG is on the left and walks past Ashley. Looks like he's leaving. I haven't agreed with a lot of the findings on this thread and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I do think there's room for a lot of doubt.

I think I'm going to wait for new previews before worrying any more about any of this.

[ironcat]

Great question. The height of the camera as well as the distance of the camera to the subjects will affect the relative height of the two people in the shot. The closer the camera is, the more pronounced the effect will be.

To answer your specific question... (and to relate it to the FRC shots) if the camera is close behind the guy, and shooting down from a higher angle, then the relative height difference will be smaller... meaning Ashley will look taller than she is in comparison to the guy. If the camera is close behind the guy and shooting up from below his shoulder, then the height difference will appear larger.. meaning Ashley will look shorter than she is in comparison to the guy. I am sitting at my desk so I just recreated this phenomenon with two pens. Hold them about an inch apart, at the same height, with one closer to you than the other, and put your eye right up behind the closer one. Then move your eye higher and lower and note how the relative height of the two pens change. When your eye (representing the camera) is higher, the farther-away-pen looks higher, when your eye is lower, the farther-away-pen looks lower. The farther-away-pen is Ashley. The FRC shot of GSG is from slightly below his shoulder level...more like her mouth or chin level, so it would make sense that she looks shorter than if the camera were shooting from either her eye-level or the top-of-her-head-level.

However, I really hesitate to go by height at all with these shots because there are so many variables.. her shoes, his shoes, the angle, the camera height, the distance. That is why I think matching the shape of a jawline is a more accurate determination than a height differential, unless we are talking about HUGE differences in height, just a few inches is not enough to go on unless we know that the camera angle and distance was exactly the same in each shot. (which, it wasn't).

As far as I can tell, all evidence still shows IMO is that GSG(striped shirt guy) is JP.

Thank you for that great lesson in perspective! It is a fabulous illustration of why the height difference is a red herring. And I agree that the striped shirt is JP. I just went back and looked at the slomo again. I now believe, after thinking it but not saying, that the boat walk, the hands in pocket scene and the hand holding scene are all Ben. I think the white sewing thread inside the jacket around the pocket is not that common and belongs to the same jacket. I checked my husband's suits to make sure and none of them have white or lighter thread inside (my hubby of course thinks I am nuts at this point). The JP shots are only the close up ones where you see the striped shirt and where he walks around Ashley to stand in the correct ring position (just IMO). And I also think it is very possible that the shirt that looks blue getting off the plane is just from being in the shadow or photoshopped to "enhance" it to that color and may really be white.

Of course this is just my visual take.....no particular hat in the ring here....just trying to sleuth.

Sometimes I really wish that I would just post what I am thinking. But then I worry that if I am wrong, I will look so foolish. I have been thinking about this whole business of the difference in height between JP and Ashley in that FRC SC. Then I started to think if it could have something to do with the camera angle or where the camera was positioned. I kept it to myself, but thank goodness someone brought it up!

I really appreciate the explanation of the differential depending on where the camera is positioned. It makes so much sense. I think we also have established that it is Ben who is DSG. Those are his hands beyond question. GSG is definitely JP because the cheek and jaw line is definitely him. Now I just have to be clear in my mind why he is walking away. I know the theory is that he is turning around to be in position to propose to her. It's the best explanation we have for now, but I hope we can get more confirmation or another SC.
[/quote]



Don't feel bad; I have been mulling the importance of the height of the camera angle over in my head for a while also, and finally decided to post about it; I'm glad it proved to be a pertinent point, but unfortunately, I had the concept exactly backwards in my mind, in that I thought the higher above the camera was placed the shorter Ash would appear to be, and it seems it is just the opposite. Oh well, I am no photographer, that's for sure.

[Guest]

I agree. Height differential among all three guys is no more than 2 inches. They all look too short in the picture in question. My question for someone who understands photography is if the camera is not only behind GSG but high above and looking down on them, would the height perception differential be even greater than if the camera were at eye level?

Great question. The height of the camera as well as the distance of the camera to the subjects will affect the relative height of the two people in the shot. The closer the camera is, the more pronounced the effect will be.

To answer your specific question... (and to relate it to the FRC shots) if the camera is close behind the guy, and shooting down from a higher angle, then the relative height difference will be smaller... meaning Ashley will look taller than she is in comparison to the guy. If the camera is close behind the guy and shooting up from below his shoulder, then the height difference will appear larger.. meaning Ashley will look shorter than she is in comparison to the guy. I am sitting at my desk so I just recreated this phenomenon with two pens. Hold them about an inch apart, at the same height, with one closer to you than the other, and put your eye right up behind the closer one. Then move your eye higher and lower and note how the relative height of the two pens change. When your eye (representing the camera) is higher, the farther-away-pen looks higher, when your eye is lower, the farther-away-pen looks lower. The farther-away-pen is Ashley. The FRC shot of GSG is from slightly below his shoulder level...more like her mouth or chin level, so it would make sense that she looks shorter than if the camera were shooting from either her eye-level or the top-of-her-head-level.

However, I really hesitate to go by height at all with these shots because there are so many variables.. her shoes, his shoes, the angle, the camera height, the distance. That is why I think matching the shape of a jawline is a more accurate determination than a height differential, unless we are talking about HUGE differences in height, just a few inches is not enough to go on unless we know that the camera angle and distance was exactly the same in each shot. (which, it wasn't).

As far as I can tell, all evidence still shows IMO is that GSG(striped shirt guy) is JP.

Thank you for that great lesson in perspective! It is a fabulous illustration of why the height difference is a red herring. And I agree that the striped shirt is JP. I just went back and looked at the slomo again. I now believe, after thinking it but not saying, that the boat walk, the hands in pocket scene and the hand holding scene are all Ben. I think the white sewing thread inside the jacket around the pocket is not that common and belongs to the same jacket. I checked my husband's suits to make sure and none of them have white or lighter thread inside (my hubby of course thinks I am nuts at this point). The JP shots are only the close up ones where you see the striped shirt and where he walks around Ashley to stand in the correct ring position (just IMO). And I also think it is very possible that the shirt that looks blue getting off the plane is just from being in the shadow or photoshopped to "enhance" it to that color and may really be white.

Of course this is just my visual take.....no particular hat in the ring here....just trying to sleuth.

Sometimes I really wish that I would just post what I am thinking. But then I worry that if I am wrong, I will look so foolish. I have been thinking about this whole business of the difference in height between JP and Ashley in that FRC SC. Then I started to think if it could have something to do with the camera angle or where the camera was positioned. I kept it to myself, but thank goodness someone brought it up!

I really appreciate the explanation of the differential depending on where the camera is positioned. It makes so much sense. I think we also have established that it is Ben who is DSG. Those are his hands beyond question. GSG is definitely JP because the cheek and jaw line is definitely him. Now I just have to be clear in my mind why he is walking away. I know the theory is that he is turning around to be in position to propose to her. It's the best explanation we have for now, but I hope we can get more confirmation or another SC.

Don't feel bad; I have been mulling the importance of the height of the camera angle over in my head for a while also, and finally decided to post about it; I'm glad it proved to be a pertinent point, but unfortunately, I had the concept exactly backwards in my mind, in that I thought the higher above the camera was placed the shorter Ash would appear to be, and it seems it is just the opposite. Oh well, I am no photographer, that's for sure.

, well if it makes you feel better, ironcat.. even though I am a photographer I still had to recreate the situation with pens before answering just so I'd be sure I was giving you the right answer! It is funny to have to think in detail about these things that we often don't pay much attention to on a regular daily basis. I'm glad you asked because all the height talk was making me want to address it, too, but I hadn't taken the time to really think it out completely until you posed the question. :D

[Nativenewyorker]

Great question. The height of the camera as well as the distance of the camera to the subjects will affect the relative height of the two people in the shot. The closer the camera is, the more pronounced the effect will be.

To answer your specific question... (and to relate it to the FRC shots) if the camera is close behind the guy, and shooting down from a higher angle, then the relative height difference will be smaller... meaning Ashley will look taller than she is in comparison to the guy. If the camera is close behind the guy and shooting up from below his shoulder, then the height difference will appear larger.. meaning Ashley will look shorter than she is in comparison to the guy. I am sitting at my desk so I just recreated this phenomenon with two pens. Hold them about an inch apart, at the same height, with one closer to you than the other, and put your eye right up behind the closer one. Then move your eye higher and lower and note how the relative height of the two pens change. When your eye (representing the camera) is higher, the farther-away-pen looks higher, when your eye is lower, the farther-away-pen looks lower. The farther-away-pen is Ashley. The FRC shot of GSG is from slightly below his shoulder level...more like her mouth or chin level, so it would make sense that she looks shorter than if the camera were shooting from either her eye-level or the top-of-her-head-level.

However, I really hesitate to go by height at all with these shots because there are so many variables.. her shoes, his shoes, the angle, the camera height, the distance. That is why I think matching the shape of a jawline is a more accurate determination than a height differential, unless we are talking about HUGE differences in height, just a few inches is not enough to go on unless we know that the camera angle and distance was exactly the same in each shot. (which, it wasn't).

As far as I can tell, all evidence still shows IMO is that GSG(striped shirt guy) is JP.

Thank you for that great lesson in perspective! It is a fabulous illustration of why the height difference is a red herring. And I agree that the striped shirt is JP. I just went back and looked at the slomo again. I now believe, after thinking it but not saying, that the boat walk, the hands in pocket scene and the hand holding scene are all Ben. I think the white sewing thread inside the jacket around the pocket is not that common and belongs to the same jacket. I checked my husband's suits to make sure and none of them have white or lighter thread inside (my hubby of course thinks I am nuts at this point). The JP shots are only the close up ones where you see the striped shirt and where he walks around Ashley to stand in the correct ring position (just IMO). And I also think it is very possible that the shirt that looks blue getting off the plane is just from being in the shadow or photoshopped to "enhance" it to that color and may really be white.

Of course this is just my visual take.....no particular hat in the ring here....just trying to sleuth.

Sometimes I really wish that I would just post what I am thinking. But then I worry that if I am wrong, I will look so foolish. I have been thinking about this whole business of the difference in height between JP and Ashley in that FRC SC. Then I started to think if it could have something to do with the camera angle or where the camera was positioned. I kept it to myself, but thank goodness someone brought it up!

I really appreciate the explanation of the differential depending on where the camera is positioned. It makes so much sense. I think we also have established that it is Ben who is DSG. Those are his hands beyond question. GSG is definitely JP because the cheek and jaw line is definitely him. Now I just have to be clear in my mind why he is walking away. I know the theory is that he is turning around to be in position to propose to her. It's the best explanation we have for now, but I hope we can get more confirmation or another SC.

Don't feel bad; I have been mulling the importance of the height of the camera angle over in my head for a while also, and finally decided to post about it; I'm glad it proved to be a pertinent point, but unfortunately, I had the concept exactly backwards in my mind, in that I thought the higher above the camera was placed the shorter Ash would appear to be, and it seems it is just the opposite. Oh well, I am no photographer, that's for sure.[/quote]

ironcat,

Thanks so much! However, you at least had a coherent train of thought and an idea about the effect of the camera being higher. To be honest, I never even got that far! I couldn't even grasp the concept. I am certainly no photographer. That is one reason why I wasn't comfortable posting my thoughts about the camera position or angle. I knew that I would not be able to articulate it in any reasonable way. Maybe next time I will just throw my thought out there, coherent or not!

And a big thank you to wonderful JBanana for taking this and using your knowledge to come up with an explanation. I don't care if you used pens or whatever, as long as we got some valuable information to resolve the issue.

[anders]

I don't know why it's supposed to be Ben leaving when it's actually JP or GSG that walks away. Doesn't make any sense to me. Did anyone stop to think that maybe it's JP that's the f2? Stranger things have happened.

Frankly, I don't think we have conclusive proof as to who is walking away. someone posted a pic of JP walking IRL and the two legs of his pants appeared to be different colours (this was without any photoshopping) so that just proves what natural lighting can do. Put that together with simiulated lighting and photoshopping capabilities, it could be Fijiman for all we know. 8) I betcha both suits are dark in colour and one was either photoshopped or the added lighting changed the colour of the suit.

[anders]

All I know is that GSG is on the left and walks past Ashley. Looks like he's leaving. I haven't agreed with a lot of the findings on this thread and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I do think there's room for a lot of doubt.

I think I'm going to wait for new previews before worrying any more about any of this.

those caps are flipped. GSG isn't walking away, he's prolly walking toward her, on our right side.

[glazedover]

Sorry, can't be flipped....the earring with the black pearl at the bottom is in her left ear, consistent in all the screen shots. The earring in her right ear has a white pearl at the bottom.

[gurlbrit]

Sorry, can't be flipped....the earring with the black pearl at the bottom is in her left ear, consistent in all the screen shots. The earring in her right ear has a white pearl at the bottom.

We discussed that ad nauseum when the first SC's and preview came out, we basically thought that Ashley had removed the earrings to have her hair fixed, as they do "clean up" after F2 has left, and probably put the earrings back in the opposing ears.

However, anything is possible and it is possible that the SC isn't flipped.

[LibbyBell]

Post copied from the Vo/PI thread for discussion

....JP's suspicious edit & his walking away from Ashley at podium are giving me pause at the moment

I just don't see JP walking away at the end-- on the beach, in the rain, JP specifically states that "I'm not leaving; you'll have to force me to leave". TPTB left this in the edit to show his committment to Ashley and "what they have". And no, I'm not saying that they'd have to get security and drag him out kicking and screaming iF he is F2-- I just don't see that he would walk away in the middle of it. I think he'd be brokenhearted and upset but I think he'd stay and talk with Ashley, ask about her feelings and share his feelings in order to "get closure" (isn't that they theme of this season?!?!) and to leave having "no regrets". JMO

(I'll post this in the FRC thread for discussion, as well)

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