Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion #2

GuardianAngel wrote:
Here's another difference IMO why this relationship wouldn't work. When people speak about helping people, they don't speak about the power they have, they talk about helping people, end of story. Josh speaks about having a responsibility when God gives him so much and he chooses to help people.

Andi: People use their power in so many different ways, whether it’s to be famous or to be rich… [and] that power in a funny way is very powerful, so why not use it to promote things that you really believe in? It’s amazing what you can do with a sense of power, even if it’s only short term. Just to do better for people is an incredible feeling.

Good catch GA; Andi should have said that celebrity provides a lot of opportunities to help, but the fact that she used power reveals a LOT!

Alanna wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

Alanna wrote:
You're right, he did put her first for awhile but there was something going on there for Andi's only fav'd tweet in Dec being that Josh loves his mom more than anything, her included I suppose in retrospect. Anyway, Josh seems really happy with his mom/family and I'm sure both will find their right person eventually.

Yes he did and maybe he eventually realized he wanted to compromise. It's not okay to shut out your family completely just to keep you girlfriend, fiance, or wife happy. Relationships are about compromise, which in regards to his family, it didn't really seem Andi was necessarily willing to do. They saw the Murray's twice in about a five month period. Heck, they spent the major holiday's with the Dorfman's. Would they have spent an early Thanksgiving with the Murray's if they weren't already in town for Josh's brother? I'm not so sure about that.

I hope no one takes this the wrong way, but the Dorfman's are Jewish. Wouldn't it have been nice of Andi to want to spend Christmas with the Murray's esepcially since the Dorfman's had Thanksgiving? I wonder how Josh felt spending Christmas Eve and Christmas Day in Las Vegas on the slot machines and shopping. Josh really seemed to cater to Andi and her family and there's nothing wrong with that. I liked seeing how close it appears Josh got with the Dorfman's, but at the same time, it wasn't fair to him that he was seemingly cut off from his family until November. Maybe he resented Andi for not allowing him to still be close to his family and maybe Andi resented him for still missing his family even though he had her and her family. Who knows.

We agree for the most part I think. There wasn't the right navigation/compromise balance struck ever imo. Josh shouldn't have unfollowed his mom or ignored her birthday in the beginning, not congratulated his brother on the engagement and all that stuff in Oct. The balance wasn't there ever, on either side of the coin. It's moot now so I'll let this go

Did Josh unfollow his mom at one time?  I must have missed that.

stuckinsc wrote:

nannymargie wrote:

lexforlife wrote:Well, the interview answered the career question. She wants to be a fashion designer!

Nothing wrong with that and giving it a try. She still could be a wife at the same time.

Agreed but it would be very hard to try to start a new career and be a new mother all at the same time and do it "perfectly" as Andi would want to.

I maintain, Andi was okay with the wife part, but she was in no way ready for the motherhood part.  That is okay, just not where Josh was at.

As per the bolded that is one thing we can agree on.

But what is ironic about that situation is Andi may not have not been ready to have kids for another couple of years and Josh wanted them yesterday.

So now his time table will be even longer before he has kids because he has to find that woman again. And as he said he's picky about the woman he wants to settle down with.

Regarding those Travel Magazine pictures I have never seen a more beautiful couple before. Hollywood couples are not this gorgeous.

Alanna wrote:Yes, there is something markedly off about the Josh family dynamics imo. Josh could somehow just never appropriately navigate the love and attention he was supposed to give his future wife and his family, notably his mom imo. It's best exemplified by his mom showing up this weekend to attend all the events instead of Andi. If it works for them all, that's great, but I understand why Andi couldn't/wouldn't/didn't correctly fit into the picture as things stood.

Could it be that Josh has been the one child that was totally devoted to family because unlike other siblings, he didn't have much going on at the time - no big shot career, no fantastic relationship. And so, it was Josh and his mom for the past five years. I guess she would be having separation issues now seeing that Andi is or was the #1 woman in his life in a matter of months. That must have hit hard, even though you are well intentioned. While I also appreciate that one parent may be more dominant in personality than the other, I would have liked to see more of Denny in this whole family. From the onset it was Aaron who made the toast, which was bizarre IMO as I would suppose that Denny is the head of the home. But I would also like to think that as a man, he needs to have the support of his dad in this trying time. I'm not saying that Denny is an absent father but I just would like to see the balance.

IMO these two are not going to get back together. [/quote]

I agree. I didn't see any love anymore at the premiere, at least from Josh's side. It had died IMHO. I'm sure he's still sad about the whole thing, because for a moment there he thought he'd be married this year and now he's back in square one. That's always painful. Doesn't mean he's sad about losing her specifically or that he wants her back. [/quote]

I'm sorry I don't see how you could love someone so fully and to just have that emotion die. EVen when a limb is cut off, you still feel the pain of it being there. Love doesn't die overnight and even though they were having trouble for months I still don't think he has stopped loving her. Perhaps he has moved on and has made the decision not to be with her anymore, that doesn't mean that the love is gone, it may just take on another form, IMO.

stuckinsc wrote:

albean99 wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Agreed but it would be very hard to try to start a new career and be a new mother all at the same time and do it "perfectly" as Andi would want to.

I maintain, Andi was okay with the wife part, but she was in no way ready for the motherhood part.  That is okay, just not where Josh was at.

IA about Andi but don't know where Josh is either. He didn't seem in a hurry to have a serious relationship pre-show. 

Andi may want to be a fashion designer but you can't just want it. There has to be some talent and haven't seen that yet. I guess I'd have more respect if she really gave law a shot.

Given Jolena and LW's discussion with Josh in AC, it sounded like Josh wanted Andi pregnant yesterday and she was hesitant.

I don't know if Andi has the talent to design, like you said the t-shirt and the dress did not impress me.  But I don't think Andi liked being a lawyer at all. She ran too quickly and never came back.  I am okay with her trying out the design thing, I think the experiences we grow from the most are actually when we try and fail.  I guess I  wish I had tried more in my 20s instead of settling and supporting my ex and putting my dreams on hold.  So I say, if she can afford it, then do it.  She is young enough to find another dream if that one doesn't work out.  I just don't see Andi ever practicing law again.  Her notoriety IMO would make it very hard for her to be anything other than a DUI or Personal Injury lawyer and that is not glamorous at all.

Design dreams.

You have Des who studied design, apprenticed with a designer, and also worked retail in a bridal shop.  Her dream has come about through very hard work and time dedicated to training/learning her craft.

You have Andi who used a pre-existing "love" logo plus the ring graphic on the "o"  from ABC's "Bacheloette" logo and then premiere's a dress sown on a plane for a red carpet event ($15 however worn with $$$$ shoes the price of which could exceed some people's monthly wage - something of a contradiction or misinterpretation of "shabby chic".)  NOW if Andi decided to go to design school or apprentice with a designer or design team...

Hmmm, isn't there a clothing design challenge reality show on one of the networks?  I could see her doing that. Who knows, maybe she has the talent to wow the judges and launch a ready wear career.

More cryptic messaging from Élan? Hard to tell first pic where he says public service announcement


http://websta.me/n/theyearofelan?lang=en

emeraldluvsbama wrote:

Alanna wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

Yes he did and maybe he eventually realized he wanted to compromise. It's not okay to shut out your family completely just to keep you girlfriend, fiance, or wife happy. Relationships are about compromise, which in regards to his family, it didn't really seem Andi was necessarily willing to do. They saw the Murray's twice in about a five month period. Heck, they spent the major holiday's with the Dorfman's. Would they have spent an early Thanksgiving with the Murray's if they weren't already in town for Josh's brother? I'm not so sure about that.

I hope no one takes this the wrong way, but the Dorfman's are Jewish. Wouldn't it have been nice of Andi to want to spend Christmas with the Murray's esepcially since the Dorfman's had Thanksgiving? I wonder how Josh felt spending Christmas Eve and Christmas Day in Las Vegas on the slot machines and shopping. Josh really seemed to cater to Andi and her family and there's nothing wrong with that. I liked seeing how close it appears Josh got with the Dorfman's, but at the same time, it wasn't fair to him that he was seemingly cut off from his family until November. Maybe he resented Andi for not allowing him to still be close to his family and maybe Andi resented him for still missing his family even though he had her and her family. Who knows.

We agree for the most part I think. There wasn't the right navigation/compromise balance struck ever imo. Josh shouldn't have unfollowed his mom or ignored her birthday in the beginning, not congratulated his brother on the engagement and all that stuff in Oct. The balance wasn't there ever, on either side of the coin. It's moot now so I'll let this go

Did Josh unfollow his mom at one time?  I must have missed that.

Yes, unfollowed on twitter, defriended on fb and didn't acknowledge her bday on sm whatsoever. Who knows why and we probably never will.

This was recently tweeted:
Mohegan Sun @MoheganSun · 44m 44 minutes ago
Unfortunately the Reality Check featuring @andidorfman and Josh Murray from @BacheloretteABC has been canceled.

To me this is a man who came scarily close to losing his mom and so appreciates that he still has her.  We have seen through the other siblings relationships that some are okay with this family's dynamic.  

Personally, it is okay if Andi isn't comfortable with it, but then it means to me that Andi and Josh probably aren't right for each other.  I think she deserves what makes her happy, but he should also be allowed to love and appreciate his family.  

I don't think Andi should have to put up with anything she doesn't want to, but she also then needs to find a man whose relationship with his family doesn't make her uncomfortable.  I saw that she wasn't fully okay with the Murray family dynamic on his HTD.  It is okay to feel what you feel, but then you are the one who needs to not be there, you can't change who someone is.

Oh and CH is the biggest lying mouth piece in the history of entertainment.  JPG was loved by CH and the family until he refused to spout their lines.  Don't forget CH was happy to push Nick until he got him to reveal that Andi had sex with him.  CH is not the friend of these contestants.  He is in fact their worse nightmare.[/quote]

Guys I'm all for family love, I'm a self proclaimed daddy's girl -my mom knows it, as well as my husband. But I think the point where the parental relationship can be offensive and destructive to a child's relationship with their fiancée (using my own experience), is when the opinions of family are placed higher than that of a spouse. Maybe the distinction between a fiancé and spouse is different. But, I can say that my husband had a major problem with me when I sought counsel from my dad on a family decision (between me and my husband) and that I sided with my dad's perspective over my husband's. Or, there are times when my husband might suggest X and I would ignore it, but the moment my father suggests the same thing, all of a sudden I want to follow his advice. So I can see why Andi may be slighted in terms of when input was given from the Murrays, on matters that pertained exclusively to Josh and Andi. And while family input is well and good, I think that utlimately when it comes to a spouse you gotta place their opinion over that of your parents', IMO.

aviej wrote:
IMO these two are not going to get back together.

I agree. I didn't see any love anymore at the premiere, at least from Josh's side. It had died IMHO. I'm sure he's still sad about the whole thing, because for a moment there he thought he'd be married this year and now he's back in square one. That's always painful. Doesn't mean he's sad about losing her specifically or that he wants her back. [/quote]

I'm sorry I don't see how you could love someone so fully and to just have that emotion die. EVen when a limb is cut off, you still feel the pain of it being there. Love doesn't die overnight and even though they were having trouble for months I still don't think he has stopped loving her. Perhaps he has moved on and has made the decision not to be with her anymore, that doesn't mean that the love is gone, it may just take on another form, IMO. [/quote]

You don't love someone fully after a few months. JMO and experience, but real love takes time. Lust and infatuation on the other hand...


So Andi seriously wants to be a fashion designer? I knew that was the real reason for the $15 dress! Why did she have to make up some silly lie about that as well? Just own it! Though yeah, that's one thing she has reason to be insecure about. You don't become a fashion designer just because you want to and can sew.

Costiesgirl wrote:More cryptic messaging from Élan? Hard to tell first pic where he says public service announcement


http://websta.me/n/theyearofelan?lang=en

I wonder if he's referring to this from the Lifestyle mag that came out today. The only reason I thought that is because I just read that article and commented on the famous power thingy.

Andi: People use their power in so many different ways, whether it’s to be famous or to be rich… [and] that power in a funny way is very powerful, so why not use it to promote things that you really believe in? It’s amazing what you can do with a sense of power, even if it’s only short term. Just to do better for people is an incredible feeling.