Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion #2

Ash2214 wrote:

umngirl wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

Of course we do.

I saw a guy that looked nervous. I can still picture CH asking him if he was ready and Sean looked terrified. Once she came out and was asking questions I thought he calmed down and they both looked comfortable. Every lead looks nervous before the F2 comes out. What's wrong in saying Sean seemed nervous and eventually calmed down? That's just human nature. That's why I said it's a two way street. Both the lead and the F2 need to give to each other in a very awkward situation. I just personally didn't think Nick gave Andi much to work with.

I saw him looking slightly nervous but not "scared to death" as you stated and like "his eyes were gonna pop out of his head". I actually think he looked more nervous/anxious when he had to sit there and deal with AshLee's crap on the WTA.

On Andi's ATFR, Nick looked nervous and Andi looked pissed off. And maybe she had a right to be since she knew Nick wanted a second chance, but being a little friendlier and gentle when she saw how nervous he was might have led to avoiding the whole sex thing being brought up.

When you watch it, CH asks Sean if he was ready and he took a big deep breath and his eyes are open wide when she first sits down. There's a picture on Google that captured it perfectly. Regardless, like I said, it's a normal reaction for a lead. It must be terrifying for the lead and F2. I'm sure the fact that Lindsay was calm and asking normal questions and being happy for him calmed him down, which happened very quickly.

That's why I used Sean and Lindsay as an example. They both gave to each other. It's bad enough Andi already had her guard up considering she was engaged to someone else and she was about to see Nick, who for the past two months wanted her back, and all he could do was mumble, shake, and couldn't even look her in the eyes. I know all of that would have thrown me off. Nick didn't give her much to work with. It took CH to ask her questions, to which she replied with good answers.

I think comparing Andi's ATFR actions to another lead who also had sex with multiple people in the FS and had to deal with them either straight bringing it up or hinting at it might be a better example than Sean to Andi. Take Jillian for example, her situation during the season and the ATFR might be a better comparison IMO.

I understood what you where trying to say Ash, that both Andi/Sean cared about their F2 but one F2 was gracious in defeat ( can't think of a better word at the moment) and the other wasn't.....

luvlady345 wrote:I understood what you where trying to say Ash, that both Andi/Sean cared about their F2 but one F2 was gracious in defeat ( can't think of a better word at the moment) and the other wasn't.....

Really Andi really cared about her F2 hmmmmmm. Nick was a gracious as Andi was to him.

whit90 wrote:

luvlady345 wrote:I understood what you where trying to say Ash, that both Andi/Sean cared about their F2 but one F2 was gracious in defeat ( can't think of a better word at the moment) and the other wasn't.....

Really Andi really cared about her F2 hmmmmmm.  Nick was a gracious as Andi was to him.

Yeah, I actually thought Andi cared about Nick she just wasn't in love with him, like she was with Josh.... If Josh wasn't on the show I really think Nick would have been F1.... I am not going to go back and forth with you about Nick being gracious because no one will change the other mind, so it's a mute point let's just agree to disagree and call it a day...

luvlady345 wrote:

whit90 wrote:

luvlady345 wrote:I understood what you where trying to say Ash, that both Andi/Sean cared about their F2 but one F2 was gracious in defeat ( can't think of a better word at the moment) and the other wasn't.....

Really Andi really cared about her F2 hmmmmmm.  Nick was a gracious as Andi was to him.

Yeah, I actually thought Andi cared about Nick she just wasn't in love with him, like she was with Josh.... If Josh wasn't on the show I really think Nick would have been F1.... I am not going to go back and forth with you about Nick being gracious because no one will change the other mind, so it's a mute point let's just agree to disagree and call it a day...

Sounds good to me.....

Me three!

luvlady345 wrote:I understood what you where trying to say Ash, that both Andi/Sean cared about their F2 but one F2 was gracious in defeat ( can't think of a better word at the moment) and the other wasn't.....

Thank you! I was in no way comparing Sean with Andi or that the two are similar or had similar actions. It was just that to me it seemed they genuinely really liked and cared for their F2 while the season was filming. It just so happens Lindsay let it go and took the "defeat" better whereas Nick wanted Andi back even two months later by trying to contact her, posting stuff that involved Andi to IG and Twitter, writing her a love letter asking for a second chance, etc.

If Nick acted at all like Lindsay, I just personally think things at the ATFR would have been different.

umngirl wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

umngirl wrote:

I saw him looking slightly nervous but not "scared to death" as you stated and like "his eyes were gonna pop out of his head". I actually think he looked more nervous/anxious when he had to sit there and deal with AshLee's crap on the WTA.

On Andi's ATFR, Nick looked nervous and Andi looked pissed off. And maybe she had a right to be since she knew Nick wanted a second chance, but being a little friendlier and gentle when she saw how nervous he was might have led to avoiding the whole sex thing being brought up.

When you watch it, CH asks Sean if he was ready and he took a big deep breath and his eyes are open wide when she first sits down. There's a picture on Google that captured it perfectly. Regardless, like I said, it's a normal reaction for a lead. It must be terrifying for the lead and F2. I'm sure the fact that Lindsay was calm and asking normal questions and being happy for him calmed him down, which happened very quickly.

That's why I used Sean and Lindsay as an example. They both gave to each other. It's bad enough Andi already had her guard up considering she was engaged to someone else and she was about to see Nick, who for the past two months wanted her back, and all he could do was mumble, shake, and couldn't even look her in the eyes. I know all of that would have thrown me off. Nick didn't give her much to work with. It took CH to ask her questions, to which she replied with good answers.

I think comparing Andi's ATFR actions to another lead who also had sex with multiple people in the FS and had to deal with them either straight bringing it up or hinting at it might be a better example than Sean to Andi. Take Jillian for example, her situation during the season and the ATFR might be a better comparison IMO.

I very much agree with this comparison. Sean was completely different, he did not introduce sex into the FS. It is also my opinion that TPTB was pretty happy with Sean, they weren't in anyway messing with SeanCat after filming. Sean's AFTR was very much about the couple with a little time spent on Lindsey, who I will agree was a class act and a very nice girl.

Much like Jilly, where they focused a lot of attention on Reid and Reid did make a very sarcastic borderline rude comment, I am sure out of hurt, about Ed and Jilly. Jilly handled this with compassion and managed to state her preference for Ed without needing to be rude or cold to Reid at all.

Word for word, yes, what Andi said was okay, not great, but she couldn't have been more cold to Nick if she tried. With that said, I do still wish that Nick had not said they made love. I get it wasn't the right thing for him to do. I have never said it was. But Andi came out ready to shut him down, not to be sweet. What has continued to be odd to me is that after Nick said what he did, I actually thought Andi was nicer to him. I would have expected her to be meaner, but to me she finally acknowledged that she did care for him, it was just more for Josh. It was odd, because once he did that I would have expected her and I might have as well, just shut up and not said anything.

Also, Andi said that Nick didn't try to reach her. Her words to Ali. I maybe the only one, but I see TPTB's hands all over the other stuff.

I will say that if Andi had just managed to actually talk to Nick and really tell him, that she loved Josh and that as much as she appreciated all they had she wanted Josh more, Nick would not have reached out to her. She left herself open to Nick being confused.

Emily did that same thing and without Jef and Arie being friends and calling Arie, I think Arie might have tried to reach Emily more as well. When you fail to break up well on this show, you leave yourself open to someone being confused and maybe thinking there might be a chance.

My original point was that I don't see JPG and Andi as all that different in actions and how they treat people. Obviously many people think JPG is very disrespectful of women, I don't but I will respect that opinion of others.

I think Andi is very self-centered and isn't very nice in how she deals with anyone who questions her.

I guess it is all preference, I would want to interact with a JPG over an Andi everytime, others are welcome to feel differently.

I do wonder why there aren't any pics of J&A even today. That is unlike them when they go somewhere for the weekend. Even their lake weekends with her family they post pics.

It is odd that he needed to be with her and not his family for the other wedding, the whole time, but this time it seems he might not have been at the wedding at all.

I am sure Andi enjoyed the time with her friend regardless and that Josh had a good weekend. Perhaps they will post a welcome back home with Sabel later.

Ash2214 wrote:

luvlady345 wrote:I understood what you where trying to say Ash, that both Andi/Sean cared about their F2 but one F2 was gracious in defeat ( can't think of a better word at the moment) and the other wasn't.....

Thank you! I was in no way comparing Sean with Andi or that the two are similar or had similar actions. It was just that to me it seemed they genuinely really liked and cared for their F2 while the season was filming. It just so happens Lindsay let it go and took the "defeat" better whereas Nick wanted Andi back even two months later by trying to contact her, posting stuff that involved Andi to IG and Twitter, writing her a love letter asking for a second chance, etc.

If Nick acted at all like Lindsay, I just personally think things at the ATFR would have been different.

It could also be said that if Andi made things clear like Sean did to Lindsey that even though she cared for Nick, she was just in love with Josh and wanted to be with him things might have been different for those two months and at the AFTR as well.

Again, I am not defending Nick asking her about making love. I have always, always said I wished he hadn't asked that question.

^ Sean was clear while dumping her? He was crying more than Lindsay was. Lindsay wanted to walk away and he kept talking. Like I've said, people can say he just meant he loved her as a person, but saying to Lindsay right as she's about to walk away "I love you. I know I do and that's what's making it so hard" I would think would lead to some questions for Lindsay. When CH brought up Sean saying that to her at the ATFR, Lindsay didn't even budge or give production what they wanted. She remained kind and thankful for the experience and to Sean and they finished their talk on good terms.

stuckinsc wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

luvlady345 wrote:I understood what you where trying to say Ash, that both Andi/Sean cared about their F2 but one F2 was gracious in defeat ( can't think of a better word at the moment) and the other wasn't.....

Thank you! I was in no way comparing Sean with Andi or that the two are similar or had similar actions. It was just that to me it seemed they genuinely really liked and cared for their F2 while the season was filming. It just so happens Lindsay let it go and took the "defeat" better whereas Nick wanted Andi back even two months later by trying to contact her, posting stuff that involved Andi to IG and Twitter, writing her a love letter asking for a second chance, etc.

If Nick acted at all like Lindsay, I just personally think things at the ATFR would have been different.

It could also be said that if Andi made things clear like Sean did to Lindsey that even though she cared for Nick, she was just in love with Josh and wanted to be with him things might have been different for those two months and at the AFTR as well.

Again, I am not defending Nick asking her about making love.  I have always, always said I wished he hadn't asked that question.  

I agree. I too think Andi shouldn't have slept with him either. They both were at fault with certain things that went down.

whit90 wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:I do personally think if Nick had acted differently at the ATFR, then things would have been different in general.

I always look back on Sean's season in comparison with Andi's. Obviously way different for many obvious reasons, but I always thought Sean and Andi were similar in that they both really, really liked their F2's, but they fell in love with their F1's and it was just more right.... snipped

Sorry I couldn't disagree with you more. Andi's F2 was part of the act, and nothing more. As many of her supporters have stated over and over, Josh was her pick out of the limo. The rest, was, the show must go on and she played her part. Anyone that gives her a hard time, she deals with it by lashing out and making it their problem. Similar to Josh's attitude now.

Besides, Sean didn't have sex with Lindsay, he respected the meaning of sex, similar to Andi's F2.

What I find interesting is there aren't any pics of the two of them together at the wedding Andi was a BM for. Wouldn't it be comical if the groom didn't like Josh and he wasn't invited? Karma. I'm sure there's a logical explanation.

Could not of said it better GA ....There is another difference that I see with Nick and Sean compared to Andi and Josh . Sean and Nick both are classy men that care about other people and their feelings. It is so obvious now that Andi and Josh only think of themselves . It is sad that Josh has stooped to Andi's level.

I tend to agree with Ash on most points, but there is too many to quote. And I definitely disagree with the above bolded statement! Sean aside, they all have had moments where they haven't shown the utmost class, whether it be an emotional tweet or a comment in an interview. They are all equally guilty of being human and not always making the best decisions. But to put Nick's behavior above Andi and Josh's, and to claim that he has class and cares for others whereas they don't is baffling to me. Nick showed a complete lack of concern for others during the season, as stated multiple times by several of the guys. And how is a man classy when he continues to pursue a woman who is engaged to another man, saying he isn't a good fit for her. He didn't just want answers, he wanted her back or to break them up. Not classy. My list is so long on things that weren't clasy on Nicks part, I can't possibly state them all. But I just couldn't disagree more about this.