Couples Therapy - Season 5 - Premier Sept 10 2014 - General Discussion

JBF wrote:Ooof! Don't know the reasons "why" they are doing the show. Just tossing suggestions out there.

Regardless of "buyers remorse" and so forth, do you think it's normal or right what he did to Clare?

Ugh! Said enough about THAT during his season. No, I was NOT a fan of Juan then.

It has taken a while... but I am trying my best to understand him. Either that or I am trying to figure out why Nikki is trying so hard with him.

Chris Soules' season has GOT to be easier to deal with! If nothing else, he is the least likely candidate I could see on DWTS.

I hope so too,  Chris seems to be a great guy.  " I don't want any drama" said Clare and I totally agree with her.

Oh JBF,  promise me that you'll write funny "script" during his season to entertain me?

mindless wrote:

JBF wrote:Also I wonder if all of these people really want to be on DWTS as much as we think they do. That may have just been a Sean "thang". Even Clare Bear was simply joking about the show on BIP. She wasn't serious.

Considering how many times Juan Pablo was showing off his dance moves during the season, I have no doubt he wanted to be on DWTS. I know he's latin and all, but still, it was obvious. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if that was his main reason for becoming the lead. That and the money. Finding a potential wife wasn't very high on the list as far as I could tell. I think he would've pulled a Brad and picked himself if it wasn't for DWTS. That's why in the ATFR he was like "See? I picked someone and we're in a relationship. Now give me my real prize! " I really don't think he was acting out because of his edit, because it wasn't that horrible. They only showed him being his own jerky self and since he never sees anything wrong with his own actions, I doubt he realised how douchey he came across. Hell, he and Nikki are still saying everyone hates him because he didn't propose, when that isn't the issue, it's how he was acting throughout the season AND on ATFR. I think he felt let down because he thought he'd kept his part of the deal and TPTB didn't, even though he messed things up himself with those stupid comments about gay people. There's nothing TPTB could've done at that point.

I am trying... baby steps... baby steps... to u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d him.

I forget. Did I earlier state that Clare's DWTS comment made me think it was some sort of "in joke" the editors included to suggest they were "on to" somebody else... whomever he... or she... may be in the Fleiss "Family"? There was so much debate I was reading over on the motherboard (abc.com) as to whether or not Andi was equally "eager" despite all claims she couldn't dance and had no interest in the show. Maybe that rumor of her and Josh potentially doing it was spread to... um... tease... somebody else?

Oooohhhhh... we can speculate on ALL sorts of "thangs" here! Not that we will never know the true story.

Yeah, I do have high hopes for Farmer Christopher. Nobody is sporting his name on a T-shirt like the one Kalon wore on his solo date, so that is a good sign. I wonder if the handlers suggested that Kalon wear it when he loved himself on his date as an additional "in joke".

JBF wrote:

mindless wrote:

JBF wrote:Also I wonder if all of these people really want to be on DWTS as much as we think they do. That may have just been a Sean "thang". Even Clare Bear was simply joking about the show on BIP. She wasn't serious.

Considering how many times Juan Pablo was showing off his dance moves during the season, I have no doubt he wanted to be on DWTS. I know he's latin and all, but still, it was obvious. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if that was his main reason for becoming the lead. That and the money. Finding a potential wife wasn't very high on the list as far as I could tell. I think he would've pulled a Brad and picked himself if it wasn't for DWTS. That's why in the ATFR he was like "See? I picked someone and we're in a relationship. Now give me my real prize! " I really don't think he was acting out because of his edit, because it wasn't that horrible. They only showed him being his own jerky self and since he never sees anything wrong with his own actions, I doubt he realised how douchey he came across. Hell, he and Nikki are still saying everyone hates him because he didn't propose, when that isn't the issue, it's how he was acting throughout the season AND on ATFR. I think he felt let down because he thought he'd kept his part of the deal and TPTB didn't, even though he messed things up himself with those stupid comments about gay people. There's nothing TPTB could've done at that point.

I am trying... baby steps... baby steps... to u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d him.

I forget. Did I earlier state that Clare's DWTS comment made me think it was some sort of "in joke" the editors included to suggest they were "on to" somebody else... whomever he... or she... may be in the Fleiss "Family"? There was so much debate I was reading over on the motherboard (abc.com) as to whether or not Andi was equally "eager" despite all claims she couldn't dance and had no interest in the show. Maybe that rumor of her and Josh potentially doing it was spread to... um... tease... somebody else?

Oooohhhhh... we can speculate on ALL sorts of "thangs" here! Not that we will never know the true story.

Yeah, I do have high hopes for Farmer Christopher. Nobody is sporting his name on a T-shirt like the one Kalon wore on his solo date, so that is a good sign. I wonder if the handlers suggested that Kalon wear it when he loved himself on his date as an additional "in joke".

JBF, I think things did change for JPG in Vietnam after his date with Nikki. He has said as much in interviews. I might be in the minority, but when he and Clare had that talk, I thought he was trying to tell her he didn't want anymore midnight visits without trying to hurt her feelings, but Clare wasn't seeing his point. He did use his daughter as a cop out, but Clare was not getting his point that he didn't want her to do it again. I didn't think it was shaming in any way, but I know that I am in the minority.

stuckinsc wrote:
JBF, I think things did change for JPG in Vietnam after his date with Nikki.  He has said as much in interviews.  I might be in the minority, but when he and Clare had that talk, I thought he was trying to tell her he didn't want anymore midnight visits without trying to hurt her feelings, but Clare wasn't seeing his point.  He did use his daughter as a cop out, but Clare was not getting his point that he didn't want her to do it again.  I didn't think it was shaming in any way, but I know that I am in the minority.

I didn't see any shaming either stuckinsc.   Seemed clear he was trying to gently suggest that he didn't want any more "secret" visits and used having a daughter as a way to allow Clare to keep her pride.  Much nicer than saying "Im just not that into you, but I have a show to do".  

That's all ancient history.  I'll do my part to keep this thread on topic ...let's focus on all of JPG's recent heinous crimes against Nikki on this show!

I didn't think JPG was bad during the show. Obviously Andi had a problem with him but that's another story. For me it was how he acted on the ATFR show. He didn't have to be such a tool even if he was angry at the producers. He refused to give them anything and therefore was unwilling to show any of his feelings for Nikki which you could tell hurt her. It's not about saying ILY or proposing (I've always been against that). To me he came across as a spoiled child who didn't get what he wanted when he should have been happy that he found someone special from the show. He didn't have to like them or show gratitude but take care of the one you choose and make sure she gets what she deserves. In other words show her the love even if you're not ready to say it yet. 

Nikki's another story. I like her and hate to see her in this situation but it's obvious she loves him and wants to try to make it work. For her sake I hope it does but also hope she holds out for an equal relationship before she makes a huge life change such as moving.

With regard to the talk with Clare, I think it would've been gentle had he said it was fun, but not something they should repeat out of respect for the other women. But instead he said it made him feel weird, or something along those lines, and that he only went along with because he didn't want to hurt her feelings. Basically made it sound like it was all her doing and he wasn't a willing participant. That's just shitty IMHO. He was free to turn her down, but he was just too horny. He was disrespecting the other women already during the group date, spending time mostly with Clare and taking her to his suite for a hot and heavy pool make-out session. Is it any wonder she thought he was just as much into it? And how was their midnight swim any worse for Camila than the pool antics? I didn't even like Clare, yet felt bad for her. And telling her repeatedly to stop crying and to look at him was all kinds of icky. Controlling and patronizing. I really wish she'd left right there and then and I'm sure she does too. And if he already knew he wasn't into her back in Vietnam then why did he have sex with her in the FS? I don't think there's any question whatsoever that he did, but I guess YMMV.

vivi2 wrote:The One million-dollar question ---  if he had got  the gig on DWTS,  would he still have trashed his “boss”?  He could have gotten over $300K vs “only” $100K with CT. ---

Good question. IMHO there was a lot of frustration during filming on the part of the producers; CH even spoke to that though not in a negative way necessarily. But I think had JPG not made his unfortunate (for him) comment about a gay bachelor he would have gotten a DWTS appearance (I suspect this may have even been talked about and perhaps promised or at least held out as a good possibility) and if that had happened I think he would have been more cooperative with the show and the network.

In response to Nikki making him answer what he did in the FS with the other girls. How is this any different than it not being Josh's business what Andi did in the FS with Nick.

Nikki very publicly, just like Chris Sigfreid, said she only watched her parts of the season and didn't watch the rest.

Obviously, what happened in the FS, when JPG was still a single man, didn't affect his choice.

JPG's sister and cousin have both said that from when they met up with Nikki in Miami and then in St. Lucia, it was Nikki all the way.

CT, like any reality show, needs to stir up drama to be interesting.

I don't understand why if Nikki chose not to watch the rest of the season it isn't okay for her to not ask about the FS?

BTW, isn't it funny JPG who has gay friends and is very friendly with all was bashed to kingdom come for his no gay bachelor comment, but when CH said the same thing in an interview right after the season ended no one cared and it wasn't a big deal?

TPTB drove the bus over JPG again and again and again. It wasn't just the gay bachelor comment, any chance they got to bash him or paint him in a bad light they did. I supported his attitude on the AFTR, since I thought Nikki was in on it. Since she wasn't I do feel bad that he either didn't talk to her about it or that he didn't listen to her concerns.

JPG was a jerk that night, but IMO, CH and others made it worse by harping on it. JPG didn't consider Nikki's feelings, but CH and others talking about it over and over when it was obvious that he wasn't going to budge, IMO was them disrespecting Nikki just as much if not more than JPG.

FLChica wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:
JBF, I think things did change for JPG in Vietnam after his date with Nikki.  He has said as much in interviews.  I might be in the minority, but when he and Clare had that talk, I thought he was trying to tell her he didn't want anymore midnight visits without trying to hurt her feelings, but Clare wasn't seeing his point.  He did use his daughter as a cop out, but Clare was not getting his point that he didn't want her to do it again.  I didn't think it was shaming in any way, but I know that I am in the minority.

I didn't see any shaming either stuckinsc.   Seemed clear he was trying to gently suggest that he didn't want any more "secret" visits and used having a daughter as a way to allow Clare to keep her pride.  Much nicer than saying "Im just not that into you, but I have a show to do ".  

That's all ancient history.  I'll do my part to keep this thread on topic ...let's focus on all of JPG's recent heinous crimes against Nikki on this show!

Yeah…he was so not into her, he slept with her in the FS date.

This is all ancient news, but JP's fans love to paint him as this rebellious guy who didn't play by TPTB's rules. Except when he does something "wrong" (aka being physical with Clare throughout the season including sleeping with her and then sl**-shaming her), it's for the sake of the show? I don't buy it.

stuckinsc wrote:In response to Nikki making him answer what he did in the FS with the other girls.  How is this any different than it not being Josh's business what Andi did in the FS with Nick.  

Nikki very publicly, just like Chris Sigfreid, said she only watched her parts of the season and didn't watch the rest.  

Obviously, what happened in the FS, when JPG was still a single man, didn't affect his choice.  

JPG's sister and cousin have both said that from when they met up with Nikki in Miami and then in St. Lucia, it was Nikki all the way.  

CT, like any reality show, needs to stir up drama to be interesting.  

I don't understand why if Nikki chose not to watch the rest of the season it isn't okay for her to not ask about the FS?  

BTW, isn't it funny JPG who has gay friends and is very friendly with all was bashed to kingdom come for his no gay bachelor comment, but when CH said the same thing in an interview right after the season ended no one cared and it wasn't a big deal?  

TPTB drove the bus over JPG again and again and again.  It wasn't just the gay bachelor comment, any chance they got to bash him or paint him in a bad light they did.  I supported his attitude on the AFTR, since I thought Nikki was in on it.  Since she wasn't I do feel bad that he either didn't talk to her about it or that he didn't listen to her concerns.  

JPG was a jerk that night, but IMO, CH and others made it worse by harping on it.  JPG didn't consider Nikki's feelings, but CH and others talking about it over and over when it was obvious that he wasn't going to budge, IMO was them disrespecting Nikki just as much if not more than JPG.

Even though I'm no fan of Andi, at least she chose to be honest with Josh, so there would be no secrets between them. I think that's healthy. I do wish he'd watched all of the season though. He might have more understanding towards Nick. And I definitely wish Nikki had watched JPG's interactions with Clare, because she still seems to hate Clare. I'm not sure if it's because of their little drama or because of the things she said about JPG afterwards, but it's kind of sad Nikki won't even try to see her point of view. IIRC, Nikki herself started the badmouthing during the season, so she's hardly an angel and Clare some villain.

As for the gay comments, I don't think the problem was him being against a gay bachelor, many people are and I kinda understand for the reason that the contestants would be stuck in a house with a bunch of viable options, so how many would really want the lead in the end? There are already bromances happening in the Bachelorette house each season, so there would surely be romances in a gay version. It just wouldn't work, though it could be fun to watch. No, the problem was him calling gay people "more perverted". He might've meant something else than it sounded like, but the fact is that the dance world is full of gay people and they're not gonna have anything to do with someone who calls them perverted. He wasn't ditched because of public opinion, it was because of the industry people's opinion. He dug himself that hole by not thinking before he speaks and it doesn't seem like he's learned much.

And yeah, CH surely wasn't trying to spare Nikki's feelings during ATFR, but he's not her boyfriend, so it's like comparing apples and oranges. One is supposed to care for her and other is supposed to make a show happen when the show's lead refuses to give anything. I don't care who disrespected her more, the point is that JPG shouldn't disrespect her AT ALL.

stuckinsc wrote:In response to Nikki making him answer what he did in the FS with the other girls.  How is this any different than it not being Josh's business what Andi did in the FS with Nick.  

Nikki very publicly, just like Chris Sigfreid, said she only watched her parts of the season and didn't watch the rest.  

Obviously, what happened in the FS, when JPG was still a single man, didn't affect his choice.  

JPG's sister and cousin have both said that from when they met up with Nikki in Miami and then in St. Lucia, it was Nikki all the way.  

CT, like any reality show, needs to stir up drama to be interesting.  

I don't understand why if Nikki chose not to watch the rest of the season it isn't okay for her to not ask about the FS?  

BTW, isn't it funny JPG who has gay friends and is very friendly with all was bashed to kingdom come for his no gay bachelor comment, but when CH said the same thing in an interview right after the season ended no one cared and it wasn't a big deal?  

TPTB drove the bus over JPG again and again and again.  It wasn't just the gay bachelor comment, any chance they got to bash him or paint him in a bad light they did.  I supported his attitude on the AFTR, since I thought Nikki was in on it.  Since she wasn't I do feel bad that he either didn't talk to her about it or that he didn't listen to her concerns.  

JPG was a jerk that night, but IMO, CH and others made it worse by harping on it.  JPG didn't consider Nikki's feelings, but CH and others talking about it over and over when it was obvious that he wasn't going to budge, IMO was them disrespecting Nikki just as much if not more than JPG.

You and I must have watching a different show. I actually thought that TPTB portrayed JPG in a good light. The problem was when he was himself after the Bach. He's probably one of those people who makes a better friend than boyfriend or a husband. IMO, JPG did the right thing by not proposing to Nikki just after 3 dates.

However, in general, JPG seems to have issues with women. He thinks the world revolves around him, and the women are lucky to be in it. THAT is what makes him appear like a jerk. He has an excuse for everything he does....his culture, blah, blah...There are people like that, men and women. The difference is that he's in the MEDIA, so we get to see and judge.

IMO, they are both caught up in their individual fantasies about  relationships and marriage. They are not on the same page, and I doubt that they ever will be. I think that both are unrealistic. JPG is missing that "I cannot live without her feeling", which in his mind means being in love. Nikki thinks that ILY is coming.....If either one after 8 months of dating is not feeling it 100%, they can rationalize in front of the camera all they want, but it won't last. They are NOT meant to be. They need more time to wake up. I don't care either way, but I am fascinated by their behavior. What bothers me as a woman is the disrespect I'm feeling from JPG, and the helpless, hopeless clinging on to JPG by Nikki. In the end I think it's a good lesson, and a wake-up call for some couples who are dating, and are unsatisfied in their relationships.

I do think these Bachelor/ettes, with their families chirping along in support, dig their own graves when they insinuate (if not always say directly) that they made up their minds early in the season. If Juan was that certain about Nikki by Miami, he would have been more cautious in the way he behaved with Clare. Whether or not "anything" happened behind closed doors... and, again, I was surprised by BOTH Juan's casual and smirky remark to Dick's questioning in episode #1 and Nikki's "I'd rather not know"... he certainly couldn't keep his hands off of her until helicopter time when she... *gasp*... spoke her mind about his crass comment. (In any case, judging from the way Nikki still feels she is "competing" for Juan, as called out by the doctor, I still suspect he did NOT make up his mind until helicopter time. Nothing turns him off more than women who speak their mind... LOL.)

Likewise, Andi was quickly put in her place by Nick the moment she insinuated (if not saying directly) on ATFR that she wanted Josh much earlier than she told Nick at dumping-time. Of course, he would bring up "making love" on national TV! Ouch!

None of Desiree's boo-hoo in Antigua and "it is getting hot in here" with Drew as the fantasy suite door closed (actually on account of the air conditioning going out) had Chris Siegfried worried. Also Catherine was hardly worried with her Born Again Virgin fiancé. Yet Andi and Juan were not making themselves look better if there were ANY suggestions made by either them or their families that they made up their minds before all of the fantasy suite frivolities. Yeah... sex is just sex, but still... it causes trouble-trouble-trouble in these situations. We shall see if Chris Soules keeps it zipped until he is certain of his decision. I mean... if you really fall in love with somebody, whatever is necessary in the Physical Department will work itself out. Is it that necessary to test-drive every vehicle you are not planning to purchase?