Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[stuckinsc]

The last nail in the coffin, for me, was the FS comment, had Nick not made that comment and everything else about the ATFR stayed the same, I bet you even those condemning him on here now (which I think everyone has a right to agree or disagree with, not arguing with that) would be feeling sorry for "poor Nick" and would have many more people supporting him to be the Bachelor. All IMO of course

I think you would probably win that bet.

I'm not sure how much Nick might have realized how some of his actions on the show were going to appear in the edit. I know in some past seasons where someone has gotten a terrible edit (eg Courtney) some of the other contestants were saying "Boy am I glad they didn't use some of the things I said". I suspect this is true most seasons - then can make anyone look like a villain or an angel just by what they choose to include and exclude. This season they happened to make Nick into a bit of a villain and I bet he probably didn't see that coming; if he had I can't believe he would have said or done some of the things he did.

In spite of that I think the aftertaste of the season for many people wouldn't have had such a bitter flavor if had kept his mouth buttoned on the ATFR and I would have to include some of the things he's said in interviews as well.

So after my novels that last couple posts, would you be okay with Nick if he just hadn't asked her why she made love with him if she wasn't in love with him?

[albean99]

I wish Nick hadn't said it at all but once he did there was no way he couldn't comment on it in interviews. I'm sure that Andi would have gotten more criticism if not for him saying what he did.

I'm having trouble being interested in this anymore. Anyone else? This happens to me every post-season around this time. Even when I like the final couple I get over it fairly quickly. I think it happens to a lot of us but we're drawn back in by certain posts.  :Nod: 

[isittrue]

I do not think anything Nick has done in response to: "am flattered" is at all disingenuous.  Not in the least. It is a politically correct thing I can see myself saying when someone says something regarding myself that I am not in the least bit interested in without trying to be rude or impolite--like thanks, but no thanks. (vs. are you out of your freaking mind--what are you trippin on, which is not so nice).   He probably does feel flattered. But that doesn't mean he might want it.

I can't say what Nick might want a season or two down the road. Brad said to people he would never do TB again and was firm about it. Then changed his mind seasons later. So things could change. But from what I understand it's not something he is considering now.

Glad to hear that, Kasha. It is my hope that Nick does not ever need to do the show and meets his match in the outside world.

[Lucas15]

So after my novels that last couple posts, would you be okay with Nick if he just hadn't asked her why she made love with him if she wasn't in love with him?

In a one word answer - yes.

I probably would still be critical over some of the pretty egotistical things he got caught saying on camera (like "the greatest thing Andi ever did was to keep me around"). I like and appreciate self confidence but that's kind of over the top, IMHO.

But I grew up in a generation where a gentleman didn't talk in public about his sex life with a woman.

[Lucas15]

I wish Nick hadn't said it at all but once he did there was no way he couldn't comment on it in interviews.

IMHO there's no way he wouldn't have been asked in interviews but there was certainly a way he could have avoided commenting on it; all he had to say was "That's a private matter and I've said all I'm going to say about it".

Or even just a simple "No comment."

[albean99]

I wish Nick hadn't said it at all but once he did there was no way he couldn't comment on it in interviews.

IMHO there's no way he wouldn't have been asked in interviews but there was certainly a way he could have avoided commenting on it; all he had to say was "That's a private matter and I've said all I'm going to say about it".

Or even just a simple "No comment."

I doubt that would have worked. He had to explain why he said it. There's no way Fleiss wanted him pulling the no comment because I'm sure he loved the press. I have no problem with Nick talking about it afterward once it was already out there. The problem was the first time. He's not talking about it now so hopefully people in SM have moved on.

[stuckinsc]

So after my novels that last couple posts, would you be okay with Nick if he just hadn't asked her why she made love with him if she wasn't in love with him?

In a one word answer - yes.

I probably would still be critical over some of the pretty egotistical things he got caught saying on camera (like "the greatest thing Andi ever did was to keep me around"). I like and appreciate self confidence but that's kind of over the top, IMHO.

But I grew up in a generation where a gentleman didn't talk in public about his sex life with a woman.

I appreciate that. I don't think we will ever agree on this, but I appreciate your perspective on this. To me in their situation, Andi was more the role that a man would have been and Nick was in the place of a woman.

[Guest]

To be honest the only reason I started looking into things Nick has said about being TB is because my wife is very convinced that Nick has been faking a lot of things for quite a long time and that what he really wants is to be "The Bachelor"; and to be equally honest, I don't agree with her but I started looking to see what evidence is out there to support either opinion.

IMHO those that "want" the role have a certain pattern in what they do or say and that pattern is different than those who really don't want the role. Those that do want it act a little like a politician who says "I haven't decided if I'm going to run or not yet" and behind the scenes start raising money to finance a campaign to run; their denial is somewhat disingenuous because it's obvious they are testing the water to see if there's voter support. In this case those who want the role often say that "they would be flattered to be asked but it would be a tough decision" but they don't shut down all possibility. Those who don't want the role shut down speculation rather quickly by making it clear they don't want to do it.

Jeremy Anderson wanted the role of The Bachelor very badly and he kept saying things about how flattered he would be to be asked; he was a little peeved that the show picked Jason over him. After Emily's season, Arie wanted the role and he said "That's a very tough decision and I'd really have to put a lot of thought to that. Obviously, months have gone by since the taping, but it's a very emotional journey. It'd be a very tough decision for me, but I would be flattered if they asked." Arie never said there's no way he would do it and he still wants the role; if reports are to be believed, he wants it very badly.

Chris Lambton didn't want the role and he only said ”If I was going to do it, it’d be on my own terms. I’d want to do it the right way for myself in order to end up with the perfect girl for me. If I needed to break the rules, so be it.” They kept offering him more and more money and he kept turing them down. The last figure I heard was they offered him $1,000,000 and he replied by sending them a picture of himself with Peyton - and they stopped asking.

Kasha has posted that she has heard from reliable sources that Nick doesn't want the role. I believe Kasha 100% in what she's heard and if she says the sources are reliable then I believe she is 100% correct that they are. But that makes Nick's answers in at least 3 different interviews (what he said to US Weekly, what he said in the ET video upthread, and what he said to Ali on an E! interview) somewhat disingenuous. If he's not interested then he should come right out and say he's not interested.

Of course coming right out and plainly saying he's not interested could shut down all possibility for the future and I can accept that as a good business man you should always want to keep all options open. But if that's an option that Nick wants to keep open (which IMHO is exactly what he's doing) then all I can question is when he decided to keep that option open and it would have to have been before July 29 when he started saying those things.

Now why in the world Nick - or anyone else for that matter - would ever want to be the lead on this show is beyond me; I'd rather stick a fork in my eye.

also, in one of the scenes where the guys were sitting around talking about nick i believe they said not only that he was always strategizing but also that he was talking about who is going to be the next bachelor. i believe that if nick–who is supposedly forthright–didn't want the bach gig he would come out and say so and not play coy like the others who most definitely want the gig.

Sorry who is playing coy exactly?? IMO Chris and Arie have been very forth right with their desire to be the bachelor. Both have tweeted and RTed as much - nick has never done such things. I have no idea if he does or does not want the gig but we cannot know for sure or make any assumptions. I also remember sean saying he didn't want to and heck look where we are now - a proposal and tv wedding.

i was referring to those former leads who have said this. i can't seem to remember any specifically other than sean who you mentioned, but i know a number of them have said it. i think if nick didn't want it all he has to do is be like chris l. and say directly that he isn't interested. (chris l. is probably the best example of a gracious male F2.) i don't see anything wrong with nick wanting to be the next bach, but no i don't think he'd likely get it. he is too much of a loose canon.

[atem]

Good, I had enough just reading Nick playing Drama King.

[Cecilia]

@lucas - Doesn't it seem odd that Josh broke up with a gf for kissing another, but would have been ok with Andi having sex with Nick? He was already shown clearly annoyed that she wasn't trusting him with the lie detector test. Having sex with Nick because she STILL didn't trust in Josh is a way bigger slap in the face.

Hmm - maybe yes maybe no. I don't think a guy is going to break up with a girl he is in love with for kissing another guy; it's not that cut and dried. If he wanted to break up with her anyway that might be a good excuse though. But the process of this show is so weird I don't know how to precisely translate real life to show process.

There was an interview earlier this morning (literally being commented on while I was writing this post and I didn't know what was said until after I posted) in which Josh addressed this somewhat. Josh knew that he had not yet told Andi he was in love with her until the FD and therefore he knew she was going to have to go through the entire process. I think Josh ultimately accepted the process of the show and therefore what he might have done IRL wouldn't necessarily have been the same thing he would do on a show where he accepts the "process" - especially because he knowingly created part of the process by holding back as long as he did.

As to the lie detector, Josh also explained that. He and Andi had just had a lengthy conversation about trust the week before (which was quite early in the "process") and it had taken Andi a long time to get to where she trusted Josh and then Josh went on the lie detector date and began to question all they had discussed about trust. What Josh didn't know then about the process is that the lead doesn't pick all the "date stuff" so he blamed Andi for the lie detector on the date. Personally I think this is a good example of how TPTB mess with everyone. They knew about the trust discussions and came up with the lie detector precisely because they knew it would create drama - which it did. As of right now? Josh's comment was they both lied two times and are perfect for each other.

I think it's kind of ridiculous that Josh actually would think that Andi "planned" the lie detector date for him. But maybe he's not too bright.

[Lucas15]

I appreciate that. I don't think we will ever agree on this, but I appreciate your perspective on this. To me in their situation, Andi was more the role that a man would have been and Nick was in the place of a woman.

We certainly agree on THAT statement though.

[Lucas15]

I think it's kind of ridiculous that Josh actually would think that Andi "planned" the lie detector date for him.  But maybe he's not too bright.

I think for someone who has been following this show for a very long time that would seem ridiculous; it does to me. But for a typical viewer or even someone who has never been the lead it's natural they would think the lead plans everything because that's how they want to make it seem. IHMO in this case even Andi didn't know about the lie detector test - that was more than likely a brainstorm dreamed up by one of the producers once they learned that Andi and Josh had only recently had a discussion about trust. They got everything they could ever have hoped for.

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