Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[Lucas15]

Basically, ignore who is chasing the lead (Nick with flowers, going to her room, etc), watch who the lead is chasing....in this case always prodding and poking at Josh. Questioning...non stop.

That whole "Just my type, nailed it. Damn." was a huge give away for me. Just like JPab biting his hand watching Nikki walk away last year. Even after almost everybody told her ILY and she had a great week, she was miserable because she and Josh got into that tiff about the lie detector. She was just different with him. More relaxed. Softer...and that is the only time she was ever soft because, let's face it, a soft, warm, fuzzy type, she is not.

I find that as we get into the season and favourites are more firmly entrenched, people seem to go to more and more elaborate strategies to justify why the lead will pick this one or that one. I stick to the basics. I watch body language. Maybe it's because it's something I am trained to do in my job. If I don't read body language cues well...I'm likely to get myself whacked...big time. I also watch for the direct...straight to the camera...statements about whoever. The voiceovers they can play with, but those statements straight from the horses mouth are what count. If you have to twist yourself in knots to justify why it's something/someone...it's most likely not!

In all the years that I have been watching this show and following message boards analyzing it I have never read a more pertinent, articulate and clearer post on how to figure out the ending. I want to engrave it on a bronze plaque, hang it over my TV and maybe list copies of it on eBay so all can keep these words front and center. I don't think I realized until I read it that you read body language though clearly you do because you've had to learn and hone that skill. It's the best radar to penetrate the fog generated by the edit, voice overs and ITMs that the show throws out to hide the ending. Though I haven't seen too many posters observe this, your comment "She was just different with him. More relaxed. Softer...and that is the only time she was ever soft because, let's face it, a soft, warm, fuzzy type, she is not." is exactly the same show I saw. Andi has an edge; she softened it when it came to Josh.

Maybe not every season but the show often gives us the best spoiler if we're watching the lead because they will often tell us who the lead is going to chase on the first episode. "Just my type, nailed it. Damn." was this season's clue that Andi was going to be chasing Josh. On Ben's season it was "Now there's a very pretty girl" after meeting Courtney. On Ashley's season they gave it away in less than 5 seconds of video (and no audio) where she had a sort of a knowing sneer (as in "I've got your number buster!") after meeting Bentley and a "he took my breath away" gasp after meeting JP. Ashley's season was particularly interesting to me because they were able to use ITMs and VO and interveiws with CH to convince people that she was all about Bentley (I wonder if there might not be some who still think that) and Bentley wasn't even there anymore! Of course the whole time that was going on as a smokescreen, Ashley was chasing JP. Brad chased Emily (making the end obvious even though the spoiler said he picked Chantal).

Sometimes there's a wrinkle that makes it more ... interesting ... those are the seasons where the one the lead chased didn't want to be caught. Sometimes they've left before the lead can catch them, other times they get caught but break up quickly.

And yet another clear definition of Occam's Razor: If you have to twist yourself in knots to justify why it's something/someone...it's most likely not!

Wonderful post. Thank you for your wisdom.

[Alanna]

Basically, ignore who is chasing the lead (Nick with flowers, going to her room, etc), watch who the lead is chasing....in this case always prodding and poking at Josh. Questioning...non stop.

That whole "Just my type, nailed it. Damn." was a huge give away for me. Just like JPab biting his hand watching Nikki walk away last year. Even after almost everybody told her ILY and she had a great week, she was miserable because she and Josh got into that tiff about the lie detector. She was just different with him. More relaxed. Softer...and that is the only time she was ever soft because, let's face it, a soft, warm, fuzzy type, she is not.

I find that as we get into the season and favourites are more firmly entrenched, people seem to go to more and more elaborate strategies to justify why the lead will pick this one or that one. I stick to the basics. I watch body language. Maybe it's because it's something I am trained to do in my job. If I don't read body language cues well...I'm likely to get myself whacked...big time. I also watch for the direct...straight to the camera...statements about whoever. The voiceovers they can play with, but those statements straight from the horses mouth are what count. If you have to twist yourself in knots to justify why it's something/someone...it's most likely not!

In all the years that I have been watching this show and following message boards analyzing it I have never read a more pertinent, articulate and clearer post on how to figure out the ending. I want to engrave it on a bronze plaque, hang it over my TV and maybe list copies of it on eBay so all can keep these words front and center. I don't think I realized until I read it that you read body language though clearly you do because you've had to learn and hone that skill. It's the best radar to penetrate the fog generated by the edit, voice overs and ITMs that the show throws out to hide the ending. Though I haven't seen too many posters observe this, your comment "She was just different with him. More relaxed. Softer...and that is the only time she was ever soft because, let's face it, a soft, warm, fuzzy type, she is not." is exactly the same show I saw. Andi has an edge; she softened it when it came to Josh.

Maybe not every season but the show often gives us the best spoiler if we're watching the lead because they will often tell us who the lead is going to chase on the first episode. "Just my type, nailed it. Damn." was this season's clue that Andi was going to be chasing Josh. On Ben's season it was "Now there's a very pretty girl" after meeting Courtney. On Ashley's season they gave it away in less than 5 seconds of video (and no audio) where she had a sort of a knowing sneer (as in "I've got your number buster!") after meeting Bentley and a "he took my breath away" gasp after meeting JP. Ashley's season was particularly interesting to me because they were able to use ITMs and VO and interveiws with CH to convince people that she was all about Bentley (I wonder if there might not be some who still think that) and Bentley wasn't even there anymore! Of course the whole time that was going on as a smokescreen, Ashley was chasing JP. Brad chased Emily (making the end obvious even though the spoiler said he picked Chantal).

Sometimes there's a wrinkle that makes it more ... interesting ... those are the seasons where the one the lead chased didn't want to be caught. Sometimes they've left before the lead can catch them, other times they get caught but break up quickly.

And yet another clear definition of Occam's Razor: If you have to twist yourself in knots to justify why it's something/someone...it's most likely not!

Wonderful post. Thank you for your wisdom.

Love both of these posts and agree. For this season, I would say there were 3 major clues that it wasn't going to be Nick that were for me impossible to ignore, regardless of what she was saying about Nick.

1. The reaction when she met Josh.
2. The total meltdown with the lie detector, even when the others were falling in love.
3. The reaction when he told her ifly compared to the reaction when the others said it. The woman cocked her head to the side and stared at him like she was a cocker spaniel. It was done

Again, jmo.

[GuardianAngel]

They gave away a lot and RS picked up on some of it like the Snapchat. Still can't believe Andi used her own name.  That's an amateur move. Josh' mom also was so obvious especially her finale party. I just thought it was very unnecessary.  Nick made a giant boo boo but paid for it. The rest didn't pay but should have. I think it goes back to Jef & family. They didn't think the rules were for them and Andi et al were just as bad or worse.

IA - Nick's plane vid was a mistake, but it was done innocently at a moment of realizing or wondering wth just happened. All the SM clues were done on purpose, and I couldn't help at the time thinking with gross arrogance and above any rules.

The confidentiality agreements were totally ignored by everyone, and not just Nick. The season was spoiled, way before the plane vid was uncovered. The plane vid just added to the confirmation Josh was the F1 along with all the other SM clues before the vid surfaced. For me, it started with chloep's rumour that they met in a hotel room.

Take the vid out of the equation because it didn't happen until filming was over. The storyboard was already created and implemented.

[Lucas15]

They gave away a lot and RS picked up on some of it like the Snapchat. Still can't believe Andi used her own name.  That's an amateur move. Josh' mom also was so obvious especially her finale party. I just thought it was very unnecessary.  Nick made a giant boo boo but paid for it. The rest didn't pay but should have. I think it goes back to Jef & family. They didn't think the rules were for them and Andi et al were just as bad or worse.

At one time if you wanted to find out news you went to the square and listed to the town crier shout it out. Then you waited for the morning newspaper to be delivered, or the radio newscaster to tell you, or to see it on your TV. Today you have it on your phone; welcome to the future. The "6 degrees of separation" is now down to about 3.43 if you include social media (and specifically Twitter).

For the show (or us) to expect that spoilers aren't going to get out is a fool's folly; they will. Someone always knows something and it's going to be shared with someone else who knows someone else and ... you get the idea. Maybe intentionally, maybe accidentally but it really doesn't matter. It's the world we live in.

[SueSt]

Let me clarify what I meant since I see it was taken wrong.  I was speaking of only UNSPOILED viewers.  As far as I'm concerned, everyone who posts on this board falls into the"educated" category;  ie, educated about the show and on the lookout for producer tricks.  I don't think it's a coincidence that unspoiled posters here all saw through the edit and were sure it was Josh.  I suspect the spoiled here who thought it was Nick might have been partly influenced/motivated by wishful thinking and by wanting RS to be wrong JMO, didn't mean to offend.

I  understood what you meant.   

Here's the other side of the coin, if I may.

Some of the educated posters on this forum, took SM out of the equation, and by that I mean to include posts on this forum as well, in order to analyze as much as possible. IMO If it wasn't for the SM activity, the edit showed a very different F1. Up until the FS date. Then we can see Andi wasn't so much into him that day. She needed to remind Nick of his broken engagement and how long it took him to get over it. Sort of like, round 2 coming up forshadowing.

She went from "I have a mental connection with him," she gushes. "It's something that intrigues me, it's something that excites me. When Nick looks at me, he just gets me. He's got that passion." "Nick said he loves me," Andi coos. "I feel hopeful and safe, and I feel like when Nick looks at me, he sees every part of me—my heart, my mind, my soul."... to

.. taking advantage of that passion, end of story.

Read more: http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/bachelorette-recap-andi-dorfman-takes-two-men-to-the-fantasy-suite-2014157#ixzz3A2Gzd7kL

Thanks Guardian for seeing the side of those who believed Nick could be F1 and giving us some respect!  

Since I am being lumped into the "wishful thinking" and wanting RS to be wrong camp, thought I'd respond. Not that it matters but I have correctly guessed every season of this show with the exception of Deanna picking Jessie and although I was Team Chris all season, I gave up hope she'd pick him about 3 days prior to the finale but still remained on Team Chris .

For Andi ... I was unspoiled through ep 4 when I stumbled on Nick's airplane video. I thought it was staged/produced for several reasons. Mainly, I didn't think Nick (or any contestant) would be dumb enough to talk on a phone in a crowded plane and spoil ending . I esp didn't think Nick would because he deals with contracts and lawyers with every deal he closes, which is standard for the type of software that he sells. Wanting to spend time with Andi at Kmart? Never! Those blue pants and chomping on Cheetos ... nope.

So that was my first wrong turn; gave Nick too much credit. Still am his fan but recognize/accept his flaws.

My second mistake was I never warmed to Josh.

Good looking, nice smile? Sure. But a former jock living in the past ... can't come to terms or be honest about why he didn't make it to major league ... unable to establish a significant relationship with anyone from 24-29 COULD mean he's emotionally immature ... can't stand losing/sulks against bleachers ... unable to drop the whole lie detector thing ... SEEMS to be living vicariously through baby brother ...  hard time cutting apron strings when he's pushing 30 ... No Thank You! In hindsight, I SHOULD have done more research into Josh so I could have a more well rounded picture of the man that he is in real life vs. the highly edited guy.  

My 3rd mistake: ASSUMING that smart ADA Andi would see same Red Flags for Josh that I did. Her "type" sure ... but I saw the light/did NOT marry "my type"  and have been happily married for 20 years. Go figure.

4th mistake: BELIEVING Andi's words about Nick ... blah, blah ... mental/physical ... blah, blah ... once in lifetime ... blah, blah ... passion ... chemistry. And please give me credit. I am not an idiot. I heard Dr. Andy tell Bevin he loved her on LCD but still knew he'd pick Tessa. I heard Meredith tell her F2 on LCD that she'd be honored to be his wife (or something like that) but still knew she'd pick Ian. The difference is that Andi was making these gushing comments about Nick all season ... especially from Ep 3 to their walk to fantasy suite. In hindsight, I re-listened to what Andi said about Nick leading into fantasy suite and realize it was a VOICEOVER that could have been taped at any time. Again, my bad. But, her "once in a lifetime" was consistent with what she said all season to Nick so overlooked that voiceover.  

5th mistake; THINKING Chris H would not throw his lead Andi under the bus in his blog after FD (Josh a mistake/Nick aspirational relationship) and also at MTA (alluding to Josh lying 2x). Dumb.

6th mistake: DISMISSING Mama Murray and Hy being friends on SM. Thought it was similar to "Ready for Love" when F2 Sarah's family was doing same with Tim's family and also on Des' season with her mom being supportive of Brooks. I also thought: athletes who win the game/match/race are taught to win with grace, dignity and respect for opponent ... not flaunt in face. Renting the hall for a fan viewing party? Better to pull the band aid off at once and organize friends/fans in one room to start a Twitter campaign to push Josh into the Bachelor role.

7th mistake: RATIONALIZING that Andi had one mean girl friend Kelly saying nasty things about Nick but Sharlene was gushing about Nick with her every blog. Bad cop/good cop. Wrong!

8th mistake: trying to connect dots on Twitter of what Josh, Nick, Andi and Elan were tweeting. Honestly, some of the dots I connected could have gone either way as some friends pointed out (cough ... Grace ... cough!) In hindsight ... HUGE waste of time on my end.

9th mistake: Giving too much credence to some hints that I thought Nick fans were getting on the fan forum. Too long to explain but my friends will know what I am talking about. We were not delusional but made what we thought were some really great connections and did some awesome sleuthing of Nick's twitter followers.  

So ... heading into the finale with all of these assumptions, rationalizations and thoughts of a foiler, I had pretty much 100 percent confidence Nick was F1.

And then the finale started ...

All that confidence went out the window. I could see how Andi's demeanor changed with Nick. Her acting days ENDED and she got her Josh to propose with big fat diamond.  So in the end, even those of us who were so certain the spoiler was a foiler ... we eventually saw the light.

Lessons Learned: just watch the friggin show either spoiler free if I like the lead or spoiled if I don't like any cast members and have fun snarking but never stepping foot in a fan forum.

Dear MVMom,

Thanks for your post.  

We all have our reasons for watching the show.  Some come to snark, others to sleuth, others for friendship and discussion and still other to watch a love story.  I have made no secret that my primary interest in watching the TB’tte is in following a love story.  

I know the more experienced and realistic viewers on this site must think I’m a fool, naive even, wasting my time since it’s been proven time and again that TPTB are more interested in presenting drama and stringing us along only to fool us than in presenting a love story.  Still, my heart wants what it wants; and so right or wrong, win or lose, I get caught up and inspired by the love story of my choosing. And since I’m more focused on the relationships, the actual story continues to unfold and fascinate even after the season is 'over'.

But in the case of #teamnick there was certainly a lot to evidence to encourage us.  Nick’s character arc, Andi’s obvious attraction and reassurances to Nick, the editing, and much of the sm evidence supported Nick as F1.  Even more significant this season was that Nick had fallen deeply in love with Andi AND was still in love with her all through the airing of the show.  This added element made all of Nick’s post- filming sm words and actions seem very much in line with a man in love, the chosen F1.

I actually think you should feel proud, not embarrassed, for standing by your beliefs, as unpopular as they might have.  Even more impressive is that you did so with your eyes wide open, not blindly, but supported with lots and lots of evidence.  Of course hindsight is 20/20.  But again, if it makes you feel any better, Nick was also blind sighted by the ending; both in the DR and at ATFR….and with Nick’s hope (and social media shout-outs to Andi) still in play, the story was still being written as you were sleuthing.  

Hugs, Sue   

[Ash2214]

They gave away a lot and RS picked up on some of it like the Snapchat. Still can't believe Andi used her own name.  That's an amateur move. Josh' mom also was so obvious especially her finale party. I just thought it was very unnecessary.  Nick made a giant boo boo but paid for it. The rest didn't pay but should have. I think it goes back to Jef & family. They didn't think the rules were for them and Andi et al were just as bad or worse.

IA - Nick's plane vid was a mistake, but it was done innocently at a moment of realizing or wondering wth just happened. All the SM clues were done on purpose, and I couldn't help at the time thinking with gross arrogance and above any rules.

The confidentiality agreements were totally ignored by everyone, and not just Nick. The season was spoiled, way before the plane vid was uncovered. The plane vid just added to the confirmation Josh was the F1 along with all the other SM clues before the vid surfaced. For me, it started with chloep's rumour that they met in a hotel room.  

Take the vid out of the equation because it didn't happen until filming was over. The storyboard was already created and implemented.

Ehhh, I wouldn't say Nick's plane video was done completely innocently. I don't have any issue with him contacting a love one, but he could have made it far more discreet. According to the woman who took the videos, Nick was broadcasting it to everyone. She said everyone could hear it on the plane, not just her. This was before there was any conceived notion of his edit because the show didn't even start airing yet, but the woman said Nick came off as a huge "pretentious douche***" who loved "hearing the sound of his own voice" and that he was "douchey mcdouche." She said everyone could hear him and it certainly seemed like he was fine with that. In my opinion, that shows that he just didn't care, similarly how people think Andi and Josh didn't care about throwing out some SM clues.

Considering many believe that it's quite possible production pushed Nick to drop the sex bomb and what not, I would say Andi paid. Having million of people know you slept with two guys and then got engaged to one isn't a good look. They spent far more time on that at the ATFR then they did with the happy couple. Let's also not forget that the show, whether it was the edit or not, really portrayed Josh as just the jock and Andi questioned him throughout the whole season. That's not necessarily a good look either.

While Nick certainly didn't have the best edit, you can't blame it all on that either. There are plenty examples of Nick saying and doing things that he chose to do and say. Production didn't put a gun to his head.

[SueSt]

I believe when someone has a favorite, it is easy to talk yourself out of the "obvious."        

Edited to focus on parts of each of these posts that resonate for me.

Yes - Nick was not what Andi wanted and we actually had two clues about what she did want. The 2013 Jezebel article featuring her and describing her ideal man (which fit Josh, not Nick), and her comments at the M&G about Josh "just my type, nailed it. damn." It may have taken her a journey to accept the risk of "her type" but hard to think she would not pick her type if it was remotely feasible.

And then again there's the subject of favorites, perhaps the arch enemy of good sleuthing. The very nature of this show is to create a doubt and the possibility of more than one choice, so as soon as you select a favorite you will find evidence to support that favorite. But it doesn't matter who a poster's favorite is - it only matters who the lead's favorite is. A lot of posters say "follow the feet" as a way of figuring out after filming who the lead picked but I say while watching the show "follow the lead" or maybe "follow the lead's eyes" to see who the lead's favorite is.

Basically, ignore who is chasing the lead (Nick with flowers, going to her room, etc), watch who the lead is chasing....in this case always prodding and poking at Josh. Questioning...non stop.

That whole "Just my type, nailed it. Damn." was a huge give away for me. Just like JPab biting his hand watching Nikki walk away last year. Even after almost everybody told her ILY and she had a great week, she was miserable because she and Josh got into that tiff about the lie detector. She was just different with him. More relaxed. Softer...and that is the only time she was ever soft because, let's face it, a soft, warm, fuzzy type, she is not.

I find that as we get into the season and favourites are more firmly entrenched, people seem to go to more and more elaborate strategies to justify why the lead will pick this one or that one. I stick to the basics. I watch body language. Maybe it's because it's something I am trained to do in my job. If I don't read body language cues well...I'm likely to get myself whacked...big time. I also watch for the direct...straight to the camera...statements about whoever. The voiceovers they can play with, but those statements straight from the horses mouth are what count. If you have to twist yourself in knots to justify why it's something/someone...it's most likely not!

Very strong points Sprite.   
- Watch who the lead is chasing.
- Watch the BL
- Watch the direct, straight to the camera statements
All these points (without listing them and beating a dead horse) led me straight to Nick all the way through the FDs...
Definitely saw a change on the LCDs... but by then it was too late; I was all in on Nick's story.

[Ash2214]

Edited to focus on parts of each of these posts that resonate for me.

Yes - Nick was not what Andi wanted and we actually had two clues about what she did want. The 2013 Jezebel article featuring her and describing her ideal man (which fit Josh, not Nick), and her comments at the M&G about Josh "just my type, nailed it. damn." It may have taken her a journey to accept the risk of "her type" but hard to think she would not pick her type if it was remotely feasible.

And then again there's the subject of favorites, perhaps the arch enemy of good sleuthing. The very nature of this show is to create a doubt and the possibility of more than one choice, so as soon as you select a favorite you will find evidence to support that favorite. But it doesn't matter who a poster's favorite is - it only matters who the lead's favorite is. A lot of posters say "follow the feet" as a way of figuring out after filming who the lead picked but I say while watching the show "follow the lead" or maybe "follow the lead's eyes" to see who the lead's favorite is.

Basically, ignore who is chasing the lead (Nick with flowers, going to her room, etc), watch who the lead is chasing....in this case always prodding and poking at Josh. Questioning...non stop.

That whole "Just my type, nailed it. Damn." was a huge give away for me. Just like JPab biting his hand watching Nikki walk away last year. Even after almost everybody told her ILY and she had a great week, she was miserable because she and Josh got into that tiff about the lie detector. She was just different with him. More relaxed. Softer...and that is the only time she was ever soft because, let's face it, a soft, warm, fuzzy type, she is not.

I find that as we get into the season and favourites are more firmly entrenched, people seem to go to more and more elaborate strategies to justify why the lead will pick this one or that one. I stick to the basics. I watch body language. Maybe it's because it's something I am trained to do in my job. If I don't read body language cues well...I'm likely to get myself whacked...big time. I also watch for the direct...straight to the camera...statements about whoever. The voiceovers they can play with, but those statements straight from the horses mouth are what count. If you have to twist yourself in knots to justify why it's something/someone...it's most likely not!

Very strong points Sprite.   
- Watch who the lead is chasing.
- Watch the BL
- Watch the direct, straight to the camera statements
All these points (without listing them and beating a dead horse) led me straight to Nick all the way through the FDs...
Definitely saw a change on the LCDs... but by then it was too late; I was all in on Nick's story.

See for me, Andi chased Josh. The whole entire season. Also, a lot of the things she said about Nick weren't direct, straight to the camera statements. They were VO's.

[Ash2214]

I also just wanted to add since we're on the topic of clues that the biggest one, when you take away RS' spoiler, the videos, the snapchat and clues by the Murray's and Josh and Andi, the biggest one was that Andi never really left Atlanta.

We had either pictures and tweets that confirmed at least every other day that she was in Atlanta. When she did leave, which was only a few times, we had proof they were for media/promotion and then one other time was to visit her grandmother, which we also got pictures and tweets of. Andi was in Atlanta for basically the whole entire season.

From what I gathered through Nick's SM, he was almost always in Chicago or Milwaukee. That right there should have been a sign considering when they heck would they have had safe house visits?!

[SueSt]

See for me, Andi chased Josh. The whole entire season. Also, a lot of the things she said about Nick weren't direct, straight to the camera statements. They were VO's.

First impression rose, First guy with 2nd one on one date in Venice, Mini one on one in Dinant
"I could see him standing at the end" directly to the camera at end of mini one on one in Dinant
Hands all over Nick; leaning in to kiss him, flirty and softer, pulling him in for kisses on beach FD, hands all over his legs in evening, kissing at tree
Secluded Beach Date vs. city date for Josh in DR
"Makes me feel like a woman, the way he kisses me, I’ve never felt this way" to her sister at MTA
etc, etc, etc.....

[Alanna]

I also just wanted to add since we're on the topic of clues that the biggest one, when you take away RS' spoiler, the videos, the snapchat and clues by the Murray's and Josh and Andi, the biggest one was that Andi never really left Atlanta.

We had either pictures and tweets that confirmed at least every other day that she was in Atlanta. When she did leave, which was only a few times, we had proof they were for media/promotion and then one other time was to visit her grandmother, which we also got pictures and tweets of. Andi was in Atlanta for basically the whole entire season.

From what I gathered through Nick's SM, he was almost always in Chicago or Milwaukee. That right there should have been a sign considering when they heck would they have had safe house visits?!

Nick favorited a quote that Andi should be punched in the face. That was the- "Sorry. No. This wasn't the man who loved her. Next," moment for me immediately

[Catdwoman50]

^^Happy, MVMom - I would say that I had a different experience in watching the show.  I am a really big Nick fan and chose him (not really for Andi) to root for because of qualities of genuineness I saw about his character during the show, regardless of his seemingly villainous edit.  What I saw was a man trying to woo a woman, and that was very sweet - naïve for the show, but sweet.  I have been skeptical towards Nick being F1 hence I didn't really pledge or stand in a corner until the HTDs because I wanted to really see the behavior of the lead towards her chosen one(s).  Yes I did see that Andi was chasing Josh but she cajoled Nick (to the point I found patronizing at times).  Unfortunately, whereas Andi acted the same towards several of the men, she never did that with Josh.  During some of the disagreements with Josh, she has shown vulnerability and hurt.  Either she didn't experience that with Nick or wasn't that into Nick to have her feelings hurt by him.  How can I explain this, her alpha came out in interactions with all the men except when with Josh.

So I knew (very sure) I was going to end up broken-hearted should I side with Nick.  That's not to say I didn' t see or believe that others in my camp felt like both of you did because I was - in a way - hoping too.  Logic, notwithstanding, I still decided to stand in Nick's corner because it was also during this time that I knew that either Andi was acting with Nick or she did have some feelings for him that she didn't admit in the end. I must admit that I was waiting for Andi's redemption - because I really liked her and identified with her, but I was sadly disappointed.  Either way, she wasn't genuine, IMO, so I'm glad I stuck it out with Nick - the one that got away (really, I know I'm going to be bashed by this statement but that's how I feel).  Hoping the best for him.

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